The England Thread

[wirE]

Part of me thinks that walking off in the 89th minute at 6-0 up makes one hell of a statement...

Question is; what's gonna happen to the match when the team walks off. Will England forfeit three points because of that action or will UEFA look through their fat money fingers and give the points to them? Or have the match played behind closed doors on a neutral pitch?

 

[Rob]

Question is; what's gonna happen to the match when the team walks off. Will England forfeit three points because of that action or will UEFA look through their fat money fingers and give the points to them? Or have the match played behind closed doors on a neutral pitch?

That's the whole point. We're 6-0 up and leave as a matter of principle. It'd force UEFA to do something and address it. As it currently stands, that'd go down as 3-0 loss for us. There's absolutely no way that would have happened and it'd have forced a change in the rules, if only to stop UEFA looking ridiculous/pathetic.

 

[dontcallme]

The cynic in me thinks that is more to do with the fact they got an absolute drubbing in their own backyard.

Politicians will always have to play politics. But lets face it, there are leaders of countries right now that wouldn't speak out against people from their country being racist.

 

[dontcallme]

That's the whole point. We're 6-0 up and leave as a matter of principle. It'd force UEFA to do something and address it. As it currently stands, that'd go down as 3-0 loss for us. There's absolutely no way that would have happened and it'd have forced a change in the rules, if only to stop UEFA looking ridiculous/pathetic.

I believe there is a rule that allows teams to walk off in such a situation. No idea of the nuances of the rule though.

 

[dontcallme]

Independent story states:

Uefa ask for a three-step procedure to be followed in instances where players are racially abused. The first step involves the referee bringing play to a halt and making an announcement over the PA system, insisting that the behaviour stop immediately.

If the abuse continues once the game has restarted, the referee will suspend the match for a “reasonable period of time” and both teams will return to the dressing rooms. The third and final step sees the referee abandon the match entirely.

So a walk out in the 89th minute would be against the rules.

 

[Rob]

Yep, we say fuck the rules, this is unacceptable and no reasonable person would disagree. UEFA need to grow some balls and deal with it.

Doing that 6-0 up would be a statement. That we're willing to sacrifice 3 points and a +9GD to stand up to this.

Instead, now all that happens is they get a tiny fine and some token stadium/crowd changes that does nothing to help solve the problem.

 

[dontcallme]

Yep, we say fuck the rules, this is unacceptable and no reasonable person would disagree. UEFA need to grow some balls and deal with it.

Doing that 6-0 up would be a statement. That we're willing to sacrifice 3 points and a +9GD to stand up to this.

Instead, now all that happens is they get a tiny fine and some token stadium/crowd changes that does nothing to help solve the problem.

They wouldn't but surely the first step in a situation like this is follow the rules UEFA have set out.

If after that UEFA are inactive then you can look to more extreme measures.

Breaking the rules and making a statement first is simply a dick move.

 

[Rob]

They wouldn't but surely the first step in a situation like this is follow the rules UEFA have set out.

If after that UEFA are inactive then you can look to more extreme measures.

Breaking the rules and making a statement first is simply a dick move.

The ref didn't even implement step 2 (there was some confusion on whether he had or not but we certainly didn't return to the dressing room). Half the crowd doing Nazi salutes and it doesn't even make it to step 2 in the procedure? What would it have taken?

 

['O Zio]

They wouldn't but surely the first step in a situation like this is follow the rules UEFA have set out.

If after that UEFA are inactive then you can look to more extreme measures.

Breaking the rules and making a statement first is simply a dick move.

Agree. Follow the protocol this time around and when inevitably UEFA do fuck all about it then next time we should just walk off IMO

 

[dontcallme]

The ref didn't even implement step 2 (there was some confusion on whether he had or not but we certainly didn't return to the dressing room). Half the crowd doing Nazi salutes and it doesn't even make it to step 2 in the procedure? What would it have taken?

Surely our next step is to complain about the ref not implementing step 2, if that was the case.

If no action is taken against the ref then next time it happens, and the ref does nothing then we are more justified into taking our own steps.

 

[MattyP]

The ref didn't even implement step 2 (there was some confusion on whether he had or not but we certainly didn't return to the dressing room). Half the crowd doing Nazi salutes and it doesn't even make it to step 2 in the procedure? What would it have taken?

Wasn't it more that the ref consulted with England about implementing step 2, but they decided to stay on the pitch as it was so close to half time and then take it from there.

Whether the ref should have consulted with them is open to debate, of course. One person doing a Nazi salute is one person too many, but as small as the crowd was it was still only a very small minority who were doing Nazi salutes. If half the crowd really were doing Nazi salutes implementing protocols would have been the least of the problems.

 

[nailsy]

Southgate told to 'f**k off' in presser by Bulgarian media - Football365

Football365 - Gareth Southgate was reportedly told to "f**k off" during his post-match press conference.

www.football365.com

I didn't realize they were doing it during the interview in response to the answers given. That's disgusting. And shouting and swearing at Southgate!?! No wonder there's racism out there if elements of the press are excusing it.

Yep, we say fuck the rules, this is unacceptable and no reasonable person would disagree. UEFA need to grow some balls and deal with it.

Doing that 6-0 up would be a statement. That we're willing to sacrifice 3 points and a +9GD to stand up to this.

Instead, now all that happens is they get a tiny fine and some token stadium/crowd changes that does nothing to help solve the problem.

It shouldn't be about making a statement though. Just walk off when you think it's warranted. Don't wait until whatever minute just to make a point.

 

[nailsy]

Fitting really. Nazi salutes against English lions tend to bite nazis in the arse. This they should have learned by now!

One of these days the news that Hitler and his nazi losers actually lost and then spent the remainder of their days hidden away like cowards, will filter through the thick skulls of these fascist dicks.

Their heroes are losers, not some powerful force from the last century.

If it ever happens again I hope our fans just drown it out with a rendition of the Dambusters theme.

Go on England!

Just no. We shouldn't be singing any war songs at football grounds.

If there was an anti-racism song/chant that would be the perfect response.

 

[Marty]

Just no. We shouldn't be singing any war songs at football grounds.

If there was an anti-racism song/chant that would be the perfect response.

According to a guy who was at the game and came on the Guardian's Football Weekly podcast "racism special" published yesterday, England fans sang stuff like "who put the ball in the racists' net? Raheem Sterling" and other similar songs. Good on them.

Much more appropriate than Dambusters.

 

[nailsy]

According to a guy who was at the game and came on the Guardian's Football Weekly podcast "racism special" published yesterday, England fans sang stuff like "who put the ball in the racists' net? Raheem Sterling" and other similar songs. Good on them.

Much more appropriate than Dambusters.

I'm halfway through listening to that podcast. It was interesting that one of the fans who was out there said that he didn't hear any announcements in the ground. Barney Ronay also made a good point about UEFA telling players how they should react to a crime against them. How could UEFA punish a player or team that walked off after a hate crime?

Edit - Thinking about I'm not sure about that song either. It's harsh on their players, especially the captain who tried to get the fans to shut-up.

 

['O Zio]

Fitting really. Nazi salutes against English lions tend to bite nazis in the arse. This they should have learned by now!

One of these days the news that Hitler and his nazi losers actually lost and then spent the remainder of their days hidden away like cowards, will filter through the thick skulls of these fascist dicks.

Their heroes are losers, not some powerful force from the last century.

If it ever happens again I hope our fans just drown it out with a rendition of the Dambusters theme.

Go on England!

Fucking hell. The absolute state of this. When will it finally get through to people that that was one of the darkest chapters in human history and that there is absolutely nothing glorious about it in the slightest. Yes, let's remember the sacrifices people made and learn from the whole story about how we can avoid that sort of situation from repeating itself. But this idiotic attitude that lots of people still seem to have, in particular in England and the US, that this was some sort of brilliant thing we should all celebrate is just sickening to me. Like these people who have "Back to Back Word War Champs!" t-shirts and stuff. There were no winners in either situation, just millions and millions of losers.

 

[Marty]

Edit - Thinking about I'm not sure about that song either. It's harsh on their players, especially the captain who tried to get the fans to shut-up.

I get that, I do. But it's still better than Dambusters.

 

[ernie78]

Fucking hell. The absolute state of this. When will it finally get through to people that that was one of the darkest chapters in human history and that there is absolutely nothing glorious about it in the slightest. Yes, let's remember the sacrifices people made and learn from the whole story about how we can avoid that sort of situation from repeating itself. But this idiotic attitude that lots of people still seem to have, in particular in England and the US, that this was some sort of brilliant thing we should all celebrate is just sickening to me. Like these people who have "Back to Back Word War Champs!" t-shirts and stuff. There were no winners in either situation, just millions and millions of losers.

just like the dickheads around me at the Bayern game singing “2 world wars and 1 World Cup” at their fans. Pricks

 

['O Zio]

just like the dickheads around me at the Bayern game singing “2 world wars and 1 World Cup” at their fans. Pricks

Exactly. Singing that sort of thing or 10 German Bombers is only very slightly removed from the kind of thing that was going on in Bulgaria. People just don't get it at all. It's absolutely pathetic. Beyond embarrassing. These sorts of "fans" make me ashamed to be associated with them

 

[soup]

@'O Zio

Nothing being a prick about telling facist Nazis to do one. If you think that's me being a 'prick' then fair enough.

'Fucking hell. The absolute state of this. When will it finally get through to people that that was one of the darkest chapters in human history and that there is absolutely nothing glorious about it in the slightest.'

For the record, beating the Nazis out of existence was quite a glorious moment. I don't feel I'm a 'prick' for thinking that and never will. Each to their own. My grandfathers, who both fought them, felt the same. They were actually quite proud. So is my German best mate.

Any person who throws a Nazi salute in my direction will get the same reaction. Violence? No. Happy celebration and laughing back at them? Yes.

Calling our own fans sickening pricks for standing up to them? Not me.