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The England Thread

Bluto Blutarsky

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2021
19,259
86,087
bellingham is just a private school dele alli, his only place in this england team is playing as part of a faux front two working off kane.
I agree.

But, I also think Bellingham and Kane could be a devastating partnership. Kane is still one of the world's best all-around strikers. And Bellingham, for all his faults, is still a "big game" player who shows up in key moments, even if you think he is doing nothing all game - much more so than the other attacking players.

England's challenge is to then build a team around those two.


Under Southgate, and now Carsley, England are not really implementing any style or tactics. They simply role out the players the manager feels are "best" - and then it looks like a bunch of individuals playing a pick-up game where everyone is trying to be "the guy".

Don't laugh, or curse at me, but I wonder if England need a manager like Sean Dyche. Clearly he is not top-of-mind when you think about expansive attacking football - but, I think he is one of the few established managers who are not intimidated by big player egos. Dyche would create a playing style, and pick players who fit that style - and he would hold them accountable - thus, if you were not playing a support role properly, you would not be playing. I think soon enough, you would see players start to play better as a team - and I think Dyche is a smart enough football man to play an attacking style, while still be ing organized - he has never really had the level of talent that a national team affords.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
10,993
30,848
What England need is a manager who isn’t afraid of benching some of the bigger names for the sake of not upsetting them.
Trouble is I think the only manager who would have been capable of doing that whilst not having the players throw their toys out the pram was Klopp, as much as I hate to say it.
I think that traditionally it's been more about upsetting the press, rather than the players - a few famous Sun covers spring to mind. However, I'm not sure the papers have the same level of influence as they once did.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
21,587
356,526
I think he took a huge risk and it didn’t pay off. Career wise is was suicidal but can’t fault his bravery.
You think it was Bravery??

I think it was cowardice! I think it was easier to leave out the lesser names of Watkins and Solanke, than it was to drop one of Foden, Bellingham or Palmer. I think the press pile on the pressure when any one of those 3 are left out and the performance isn't great.

I think that's why he decided to go with it after just 20 minutes of training. I genuinely think he bottled it leaving one of them out last minute.

I'll go further and say it's the exact same problem we had during the golden generation with Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard. They all bemoan it now but at the time as far as the press were concerned it was "how could you possibly think of leaving out a player as good as Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard". If one had of been omitted it would have caused uproar if we had lost, and that decision would have been the reason in every headline.

The press have basically run the England team for decades, or at least heavily influence every thing that goes on.
 
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hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
32,796
60,485
Must be a slot for Bellingham
Yeah I love Foden as a player but I'm 99.9% sure a good enough manager would be able to at least fit Bellingham and Palmer in the same team. They are two of the best players in the world currently. I think Foden will have to understand that his performances in an England shirt haven't been good enough to deserve a starting place, regardless of how good he's been for City.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
32,796
60,485
Regarding Carsley, if there's even a tiny bit of doubt about him then he shouldn't get the job. I couldn't think of anything worse than wasting another 2-4 years of this current group of attacking talent.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
6,405
24,093
You think it was Bravery??

I think it was cowardice! I think it was easier to leave out the lesser names of Watkins and Solanke, than it was to drop one of Foden, Bellingham or Palmer. I think the press pile on the pressure when any one of those 3 are left out and the performance isn't great.

I think that's why he decided to go with it after just 20 minutes of training. I genuinely think he bottled it leaving one of them out last minute.

I'll go further and say it's the exact same problem we had during the golden generation with Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard. They all bemoan it now but at the time as far as the press were concerned it was "how could you possibly think of leaving out a player as good as Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard". If one had of been omitted it would have caused uproar if we had lost, and that decision would have been the reason in every headline.

The press have basically run the England team for decades, or at least heavily influence every thing that goes on.
Nobody would have batted an eyelid if he left out Gordon or when saka went off not brought on madueke.

I think this was ego convincing he could make an ultra attacking system work more than bowing to big names.

Now I think it was a crazy idea and was doomed to failure but he stuck to his guns last night and it will likely cost him millions.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
42,135
70,805
The best performances England played under Southgate were usually when Rashford and Sterling raced ahead of Kane trying to break the lines, where Kane would drop a bit deeper and play through balls before getting into the box himself. It brought the best out of all of them and constantly put pressure on opposition defences.

Who breaks the lines in the current England setup? Arguably only Gordon even tries, Saka rarely does and nobody else does at all. It's a problem that when England face pretty much anybody these days they end up just passing it around in front of a defensive block. That needs to be addressed whoever the long term manager is.
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,737
12,293
The best performances England played under Southgate were usually when Rashford and Sterling raced ahead of Kane trying to break the lines, where Kane would drop a bit deeper and play through balls before getting into the box himself. It brought the best out of all of them and constantly put pressure on opposition defences.

Who breaks the lines in the current England setup? Arguably only Gordon even tries, Saka rarely does and nobody else does at all. It's a problem that when England face pretty much anybody these days they end up just passing it around in front of a defensive block. That needs to be addressed whoever the long term manager is.

Our players are learning football from teams with the likes of Pep, Arteta, Klopp. They aren't being built and grown that way anymore. We have always wanted more continental players and now we have them, loads of them but then they come to play for England they play in a system where the interplay is far more limited. Foden for example isn’t a winger in a traditional sense, he is a floating an attacking midfielder.

England have now a generation of more technical less direct players but haven’t got their heads around how to shape that into a new team. Carsley might be more so call progressive than Southgate but yesterday clear patterns of attacking play where not that great.

The football management of England hasn’t caught up with the changes in the game and changes in the characteristics of the players. England is now Palmer, Saka Foden not Rashford or Sterling.
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
3,568
5,768
If The FA are bothered about the reaction if they pay 5m for Eddie Howe, they won’t go near appointing a German. Would get quite the reaction.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
14,422
53,663
If The FA are bothered about the reaction if they pay 5m for Eddie Howe, they won’t go near appointing a German. Would get quite the reaction.
Are we really still not over a war that happened 80 years ago and involved far more nations than just us and the Germans?
I don't mind a bit of banter towards them for shits and giggles but blimey, we've got to get over it eventually.

The FA should be concerned with getting the best possible person available, not what their nationality is and if that's Tuchel, that's fine by me.

His wage demands may well be an issue though, to be fair, as I'm sure it's quite a drop from PL manager to national manager, no matter how "big and rich" that nation is.
 

neilp

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2007
3,492
15,520
Are we really still not over a war that happened 80 years ago and involved far more nations than just us and the Germans?
I don't mind a bit of banter towards them for shits and giggles but blimey, we've got to get over it eventually.

The FA should be concerned with getting the best possible person available, not what their nationality is and if that's Tuchel, that's fine by me.

His wage demands may well be an issue though, to be fair, as I'm sure it's quite a drop from PL manager to national manager, no matter how "big and rich" that nation is.
I think he has got enough about him to see this as a fantastic opportunity to work with a great group of players. He believes in himself and I wouldn’t mind him in charge.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
42,135
70,805
In general I have a problem with foreign managers in any nation because international competition should be about pitting the best from countries against one another and that should include managers and coaching staff, not just players.

Got a great crop of players but a shit crop of managers? Tough, those are the cards you have.

But rules not being like that, Tuchel would seem a good choice.
 
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