The England Thread

[SUIYHA]

But the bicycle DID go in so it's pointless going on if x, y and x didn't happen. End of the day they day and England are in another final.

Which is all well and good - but we're talking in the context of should he be given another tournament or not. I've not seen anything from him in 8 years to suggest that he's bringing something unique or innovative to the table that other managers don't have - just that he's been luckier than others with kind draws and knife edge moments that have gone our way when they didn't fall for others.

If we're really breaking it down into black and white, should we lose on Sunday then he'll have had the most failed tournaments of any England manager since Ramsey. Beating in-form major footballing nations on foreign soil in knock-out football is not something England managers have ever done, if he can pull off a win against Spain then my opinion will instantly change. Until then, I wait to be convinced.

 

[hughy]

Really poor move IMO

It's weird because I've sort of had it in my head this is 100% his last tournament, so this would almost feel a bit anti-climactic.

I honestly think win or lose it's the best time for him to step down. If we win he goes out on a high, there will be calls for a Knighthood, and will probably be regarded the greatest England manager in history. If we lose I think the majority of us will agree that he's reignited our love for the national team, but will also think had enough chances to get us over the line, and it should be someone else's go to have a crack with the most talented squad we've had for at least 30 years.

The Colombia penalty shoot-out, reaching a World Cup semi-final, the Germany result in the 2021 Euro's, reaching two Euro's finals... he's definitely given me more moments to get excited than any other manager in my lifetime of watching Spurs or England. If that's "celebrating failure" like some have suggested I really couldn't give a fuck.

 

[easley91]

Which is all well and good - but we're talking in the context of should he be given another tournament or not. I've not seen anything from him in 8 years to suggest that he's bringing something unique or innovative to the table that other managers don't have - just that he's been luckier than others with kind draws and knife edge moments that have gone our way when they didn't fall for others.

If we're really breaking it down into black and white, should we lose on Sunday then he'll have had the most failed tournaments of any England manager since Ramsey. Beating in-form major footballing nations on foreign soil in knock-out football is not something England managers have ever done, if he can pull off a win against Spain then my opinion will instantly change. Until then, I wait to be convinced.

I don't think anyone has said he should get another tournament? I have said previously he should have gone after Qatar and this one was one too many.

He has brought a unity to the squad not seen in decades. Just listen to the players and ex pros who went on about players being in club groups in the camps.

If you want to really take the negative slant, sure. But in reality he has gotten us further consistently more than any other England manager since Sir Alf. He has also overseen penalty shootout victories, yes plural.

No England manager had taken us to a final on foreign soil until now.

I just think he deserves a bit more respect than he is given is all.

 

[Legacy]

If we're going to criticise him for things that might not have happened, surely we should also credit him for things that also didn't happen. He didn't poison the team's water supply, he didn't annex Scotland, he didn't book the plane to Bermuda rather than Berlin. Makes about as much sense as arguing that things that happened were bad because what if they didn't happen imo.

It is bewildering to me how much people want to negate his achievements when he is so clearly the best manager we've had in sixty years, and by any metric is a successful international manager. I truly think it's the result of a country that badly needs to cheer the fuck up.

That wasn't the point I was making though, was it? The point is he's been incredibly lucky to have gone so far in tournaments and he's consistently scraped through on the finest of margins and fortunate decisions.

He came into this tournament, having been the manager for nearly 8 years, without having an actual plan or structure in place for how the team were supposed to play. Started the tournament with his second choice right back at left back, his third choice right back in central midfield and a #10 at left wing.

The performance in the first game was substandard so for the second group game, he changed absolutely nothing. Crawls to 1-0 win against a team ranked 27 places below England

Performance in the second game, against better opposition, was even worse, forcing him to abandon his genius move at playing his third choice right back in central midfield and replacing him with a central midfielder who was still ill fitted to the role required in that specific position. Still no changes to the non existent left side that has caused problems. Does not win the game against a team ranked 16 places below England.

Performance in the third game as bad as the second game, once again forced to change his starting central midfielder, this time at half time, and finally accidentally stumbling to a player actually somewhat equipped to play that role in the system he's had 8 years to fine tune. Still no changes to the non existent left side that has caused problems. Does not win the game against a team ranked 52 places below England.

Round of 16, 4th poor performance in a row. Comes up with a masterful solution to the non existent left side by forcing his central attacking midfielder to move to the left every time his assigned left winger decides to move out of position. Both players end up being largely ineffective. Goes 0-1 down halfway through the first half, team doesn't create single shot on target until the 95th bicycle kick from Bellingham goes in. Extra time required to beat a team ranked 40 places below England.

Quarter finals, finally some sort of system tweak sees a slightly better performance that provides a massive three shots on target. Does not win the game. Penalties required to beat a team ranked 14 places below England.

Semi finals, England finally start the game well. Still manage to go a goal down for the third game in a row. Manages to get a very fortunate penalty to level the game. Opponent makes some tweaks at half time to render England largely ineffective for much of the second half. Finally makes a positive change after 80 minutes and brings on the only England player to look consistently creative all tournament, who again is creative enough to set up the 91st minute winner. Which will no doubt be a good enough performance to spend most of next game on the bench so a player with 0 goals and 0 assists can carry on running around doing as he pleases.

Clearly Southgate is a quality manager and has absolutely nailed his system. He hasn't been lucky at all that his significantly better squad has required late moments of top quality technique from several arguably world class players to progress as far as England have.

No other manager could have overcome Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia, Switzerland and Netherlands to reach a final and scoring a massive 7 goals with an attacking trio consisting of the Bundesliga's top scorer, the Premier League's Player of the Year and La Liga's Player of the Year.

Nope, not lucky at all. That is just top tier management.

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

It's weird because I've sort of had it in my head this is 100% his last tournament, so this would almost feel a bit anti-climactic.

I honestly think win or lose it's the best time for him to step down. If we win he goes out on a high, there will be calls for a Knighthood, and will probably be regarded the greatest England manager in history. If we lose I think the majority of us will agree that he's reignited our love for the national team, but will also think had enough chances to get us over the line, and it should be someone else's go to have a crack with the most talented squad we've had for at least 30 years.

The Colombia penalty shoot-out, reaching a World Cup semi-final, the Germany result in the 2021 Euro's, reaching two Euro's finals... he's definitely given me more moments to get excited than any other manager in my lifetime of watching Spurs or England. If that's "celebrating failure" like some have suggested I really couldn't give a fuck.

Give him the knighthood if he wins and then let him resign a winner and become a pundit for the BBC.

If nothing else it will be funny to see Lineker be nice to him after everything he's said during this tournament.

 

[Moorpheus19]

He should leave on a high, regardless of the result on Sunday.

He can point to the results on paper and show progression even if the style has been poor.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

I don’t see him staying on, regardless of the result, you can see it’s taken a toll on him.

 

[theShiznit]

Perfect final for me, as a Half Spanish half Englishman that was born here (and lived here my whole life) i will go into the game wanting an England win and then the next day say i was supporting whoever wins.

Unfortunately Paddy Power doesn't agree with my win win approach

Spoiler

 

[RuskyM]

That wasn't the point I was making though, was it? The point is he's been incredibly lucky to have gone so far in tournaments and he's consistently scraped through on the finest of margins and fortunate decisions.

He came into this tournament, having been the manager for nearly 8 years, without having an actual plan or structure in place for how the team were supposed to play. Started the tournament with his second choice right back at left back, his third choice right back in central midfield and a #10 at left wing.

The performance in the first game was substandard so for the second group game, he changed absolutely nothing. Crawls to 1-0 win against a team ranked 27 places below England

Performance in the second game, against better opposition, was even worse, forcing him to abandon his genius move at playing his third choice right back in central midfield and replacing him with a central midfielder who was still ill fitted to the role required in that specific position. Still no changes to the non existent left side that has caused problems. Does not win the game against a team ranked 16 places below England.

Performance in the third game as bad as the second game, once again forced to change his starting central midfielder, this time at half time, and finally accidentally stumbling to a player actually somewhat equipped to play that role in the system he's had 8 years to fine tune. Still no changes to the non existent left side that has caused problems. Does not win the game against a team ranked 52 places below England.

Round of 16, 4th poor performance in a row. Comes up with a masterful solution to the non existent left side by forcing his central attacking midfielder to move to the left every time his assigned left winger decides to move out of position. Both players end up being largely ineffective. Goes 0-1 down halfway through the first half, team doesn't create single shot on target until the 95th bicycle kick from Bellingham goes in. Extra time required to beat a team ranked 40 places below England.

Quarter finals, finally some sort of system tweak sees a slightly better performance that provides a massive three shots on target. Does not win the game. Penalties required to beat a team ranked 14 places below England.

Semi finals, England finally start the game well. Still manage to go a goal down for the third game in a row. Manages to get a very fortunate penalty to level the game. Opponent makes some tweaks at half time to render England largely ineffective for much of the second half. Finally makes a positive change after 80 minutes and brings on the only England player to look consistently creative all tournament, who again is creative enough to set up the 91st minute winner. Which will no doubt be a good enough performance to spend most of next game on the bench so a player with 0 goals and 0 assists can carry on running around doing as he pleases.

Clearly Southgate is a quality manager and has absolutely nailed his system. He hasn't been lucky at all that his significantly better squad has required late moments of top quality technique from several arguably world class players to progress as far as England have.

No other manager could have overcome Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia, Switzerland and Netherlands to reach a final and scoring a massive 7 goals with an attacking trio consisting of the Bundesliga's top scorer, the Premier League's Player of the Year and La Liga's Player of the Year.

Nope, not lucky at all. That is just top tier management.

Cool. Enjoy Sunday.

 

[dontcallme]

I’ve got Spain in my football group sweepstakes.

So if Spain win I get £120. If England win I’ll be happy for a few minutes.

 

[Spursmatty87]

Spain have been brilliant to watch so I’m quite happy either way on this tbh.

if England play well and deserve it then I’ll be happy. if they stink the place out then they deserve to lose. I won’t ever understand playing defensive football when your best players are attacking ones.

 

[BPR_U16]

I’ve got Spain in my football group sweepstakes.

So if Spain win I get £120. If England win I’ll be happy for a few minutes.

Moneys not everything - be gone in a flash.

A trophy and being named euro champs is eternal

 

[MrWoolley]

Praying the lads can bring it home tonight

 

[mark87]

Shaw in for Trippier

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Let’s hope Alcaraz is the only Spanish sporting win today.

Come on the lads ⚽️
I’m going 2-1 and Foden to score.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Shaw in for Trippier

Like it. That’s our best team and the formation to get our best players in their best positions.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I’ve got Spain in my football group sweepstakes.

So if Spain win I get £120. If England win I’ll be happy for a few minutes.

What would you spend £120 on that would give you pleasure for more than a few minutes? And could you give me her ‘phone number?

 

[Spursmatty87]

Fancy us tonight.

 

[Tucker]

Time for Southgate to fuck off and find his true level managing someone like Stoke or Middlesbrough.

 

[14/04/91]

Time for Southgate to fuck off and find his true level managing someone like Stoke or Middlesbrough.

100%
Bloke is pure defence. Total waste of an amazing group of players.
We have their coach in charge tonight, we win. Simple as that.