The England Thread

[Trent Crimm]

No matter how bad we’ve been this last week, we’re a decent win away against Slovakia from the country jumping right back on the wagon and everyone convinced it’s coming home.

Street parties, people buying 100 inch Sony tvs. Packs of lager from the Co-op, coronation chicken and flags on taxis.

bring it on.

 

[WiganSpur]

Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi
TAA ------------------ Saka
Wharton ---- Mainoo
Bellingham
Kane ---- Watkins
​

Play this against the low block if Foden is out. Have Stones stepping into the midfield in possession

 

[McFlash]

Just wanted to chime in on the Jude Bellingham conversation.

Despite his showing thus far - I still think he is currently the most talented player in the squad - but that most people really misunderstand his strengths. He is not a deep-lying CM - no matter where he played a couple of years ago. Moving him deeper was never going to be a good solution. He is a bigger/stronger version of peak Dele - his strengths lie in being in and around the box in the attacking end.

If we look at how he has been deployed in this tournament - we can start to see why he has struggled.

Against Serbia - his best game - he was an attacking midfielder - spending most of his time in the attacking end:

View attachment 142362

We can see him drop deep a few times, but mostly to pick up the ball, and we can see that he did move out left a little bit, when Foden came central.

In the Denmark game, and particularly in the second half, Bellingham was moved deeper because Hojbjerg was single-handedly laying waste to the England midfield - and Bellingham was ineffective, at best in that role:

View attachment 142363

And then, finally against Slovenia:

View attachment 142364

We find that Bellingham spent most of his time on the left, while Foden moved more centrally. And, not surprisingly, Bellingham playing wide on the left was considered his worst game of the tournament.


Before the tournament - I considered that Kane, Foden and Bellingham should be the focus of the attack - as the 3 best attacking players in the squad. But, 3 games in, and it's clear that they cannot play well together. Ultimately, I think that is down to coaching - but its also a little bit down to the players and their own natural instincts - they all want to get on the ball in the same area of the pitch - and despite any coaching to the contrary - they all end up stepping on each other space.

I suspect, but don't know, that Southgate would prefer Kane to lead the line, and not drop deep - but Kane is always going to drop deep, in part, because he is good in that role. So, if you can't coach that out of him - then you need to adapt the other players. And, given some of the challenges that Kane creates with his lack of an effective high press - the "obvious" solution is to play Bellingham in the Dele role, and let him and Kane interchange up top - one dropping while the other pushes on, and allows Bellingham, and his younger legs, to lead the press from the front.

That would mean Foden is the odd-man out - which might seem harsh on the PL player of the year - but the goal of the manager should be to play the best team - not necessarily playing the best players. Playing Gordon on the left makes for a better team. (And honestly, bringing a natural left wing/forward like Rashford would have made more sense than bringing Bowen who also plays best on the right) Maybe Foden could play on the right, but Saka or Palmer are equally suited for that role.


Tl;dr Version - Bellingham still deserves a spot in the team - but should be in a role that suits his current skills - either as a AMC, or as a 2nd striker playing off Kane. Bellingham is a poor fit as a deeper CM, or as a LW/LM

Not for me I'm afraid.
Bellingham has got worse as the tournament has worn on and really frustrated me last night.

He's only played as a second striker for the last season and that was only really because RM couldn't fit him in anywhere else, it's certainly not his best position.

Everything about him last night was terrible and the only place I want to see him for the next game is on the bench.
Foden is the one that needs to play as a 10 for me, his all round work rate and game is much better.

 

[FrankSpencer]

Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi
TAA ------------------ Saka
Wharton ---- Mainoo
Bellingham
Kane ---- Watkins
​

Play this against the low block if Foden is out. Have Stones stepping into the midfield in possession

Not a chance he drops Rice!

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Not for me I'm afraid.
Bellingham has got worse as the tournament has worn on and really frustrated me last night.

He's only played as a second striker for the last season and that was only really because RM couldn't fit him in anywhere else, it's certainly not his best position.

Everything about him last night was terrible and the only place I want to see him for the next game is on the bench.
Foden is the one that needs to play as a 10 for me, his all round work rate and game is much better.

Look at his heat map from last night - he played Left Wing.

Of course he looked lost.

Against Denmark, he dropped deeper in the 2nd half - and looked lost.


Go back to the 1st game - which was his best - and where he played as a CAM for most of the game.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Expect us to lose to either or

 

[cookiemonster]

Not for me I'm afraid.
Bellingham has got worse as the tournament has worn on and really frustrated me last night.

He's only played as a second striker for the last season and that was only really because RM couldn't fit him in anywhere else, it's certainly not his best position.

Everything about him last night was terrible and the only place I want to see him for the next game is on the bench.
Foden is the one that needs to play as a 10 for me, his all round work rate and game is much better.

Correct

Bellingham is overrated wandering around looking lost and falling over like a English Joe Biden

 

[DannyNZ]

Not a chance he drops Rice!

And he shouldn‘t, Rice needs to start and should be pushed further forward with Wharton playing the DM role.

I like the look of Palmer off the right and Gordon off the left. That would mean Bellingham or Foden at 10, neither has done anything to own a start so a coin toss.

Need a better option than Trippier at LB, but until Shaw fit the squad lacks options here.

 

[Trix]

Absolutely and in fairness to Gareth he has navigated draws like this before. The team should be looking at this chomping at the bit to get going

Indeed, imo he's far from the best manager we've had, but he may well be the luckiest. They say to win any tournament you need a degree of luck well Garreth certainly has that.

 

[Shanks]

Indeed, imo he's far from the best manager we've had, but he may well be the luckiest. They say to win any tournament you need a degree of luck well Garreth certainly has that.

Luckiest draws in all comps in fairness.

I'm fully in now, it's coming home, may even stay the third night this weekend at thr butlins adult weekender just to watch this game

 

[easley91]

Even if we were to somehow win this then people will still go on about it being a favourable draw and he was lucky blah blah blah. He isn't the one who set the draw the way it is and he isn't the one telling Georgia to win their game v a weakened Portugal for us to get Slovakia.

We top the group, do our job and we then see where the chips lie. It's up to every other team to do their own jobs.

Yes the way we topped it was seriously underwhelming, but top the group we did and an "easier" path is the reward.

Bash him for his tactics and selections sure, but he doesn't control how the tournament is drawn.

 

[Shanks]

Even if we were to somehow win this then people will still go on about it being a favourable draw and he was lucky blah blah blah. He isn't the one who set the draw the way it is and he isn't the one telling Georgia to win their game v a weakened Portugal for us to get Slovakia.

We top the group, do our job and we then see where the chips lie. It's up to every other team to do their own jobs.

Yes the way we topped it was seriously underwhelming, but top the group we did and an "easier" path is the reward.

Bash him for his tactics and selections sure, but he doesn't control how the tournament is drawn.

I don't think anyone will bash him for thr draw, but say say he has had favourable draws and fails as soon as there is a top team is fair.

But then I can't see us winning this, maybe qtr final, unless they actually start playing with intent

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

It's coming home.

 

[bubble07]

Couldn't have asked for an easier route to the final

 

[teok]

A bit of an aside, but I was reading an article a few weeks ago about the lucas paqueta and the betting scandal. They were saying how brazilian players are incredibly competitive pre tournament, but once the squad is announced they become blood brothers who would die for each other on the pitch.

I sort of wish we could be like this as england fans. Southgate is the manager until the tourney is over, these are players that we have fit/selected. This isn't club football where you have a month's long season with multiple games a week. It's a few more games. It just seems like the worst time to be booing the team/manager etc.

 

[Styopa]

I don't think anyone will bash him for thr draw, but say say he has had favourable draws and fails as soon as there is a top team is fair.

But then I can't see us winning this, maybe qtr final, unless they actually start playing with intent

Precisely this: It's not that people criticise him for drawing favorable matchups. The issue lies in the lack of confidence that this England team can defeat top-tier opponents in tournaments, given the absence of evidence from the last three competitions. His England have tended to lose when facing opponents of similar strength.

To his credit, he has contributed to this luck by ensuring his team tops their groups. However, drawing Slovakia instead of the Netherlands was beyond his control.

Similarly, ending up in such a straightforward group was also outside his influence. In this tournament, England has encountered Denmark (ranked 21st), Serbia (32nd), and Slovenia (57th). Their upcoming opponent is Slovakia, ranked 45th. Other group winners faced significantly tougher challenges.


The highest-ranked team England has defeated in a major tournament knockout match was Denmark, who were 10th at the time of Euro '21. To win this competition, England will likely need to overcome much stronger opponents. If Southgate guides the team past the likes of Italy, Netherlands, and Spain in the final, he will silence his critics. Until then, however, doubts will persist.

 

[teok]

That being said it's going to be a nervy 0-0'er vs slovakia isn't it.

 

[felmani26]

I wouldn't get overconfident - Slovakia have all the makings of being Iceland 2.0

 

[teok]

I wouldn't get overconfident - Slovakia have all the makings of being Iceland 2.0

I was just looking up their recent fixtures.

 

[WiganSpur]

Not a chance he drops Rice!

I like Rice a lot but it feels like he is a hindrance in these sorts of games. If we're playing a top side then he's a shoe in though.