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The England Thread

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
20,050
50,065
Now people see why his squad selection was actually fucking awful. Forget about being "brave" for dropping Rashford, his decision to take ONE UNFIT left-back and no other left footed defenders is unforgivable. It's not like he didn't have decent options either. Pathetic.
And people said no Mitchell wouldn't matter... a proper left footed LB would make a huge difference to the balance of this team.

We need Luke Shaw back and fit asap.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,610
20,571
Just checking back, in the last world cup, Kalvin Phillips was in the squad, but didn't start a single game.... it gets better!
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,334
21,923
I still can’t believe Southgate didn’t take Mitchell and Braithwaite…

Would have balanced team out so much better, he’s wasted this tournament with options he had.

Foden needs to be benched as he plays best on the right, where Saka plays - a lot of people have said Foden played centrally for Man City but I always saw him on right side cutting in on his left foot?

Palmer should play 10 and drop Bellingham back into midfield and actually put Gordon on left, where it’s his natural position!

Alexander-Arnold has never had a sustained run in central midfield aside from an appearance there for England every now and then, so why decide to do it during a major tournament?

Why does it seem so many England managers make such bizarre choices.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,654
344,209
Feel like the press and pundits have finally woken up to what a poor coach Southgate is this morning.
Will it matter though? Southgate is incredibly principled and stubborn to a fault. I don't see him admitting he's got it wrong and changing things.

It's been blindingly obvious to a lot of us throughout his tenure, he's boring, uninspiring, and tactically way off the pace.

He's lucked out with good draws, having a squad of individuals that can get you through the easy rounds, and as soon as he faces real quality he's lost.

Can't go soon enough for my money.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,610
20,571
Will he change it up for the third round, or further? Unlikely.

Sadly, as Trix alludes to, he hasn't learnt from previous performances, probably looks at them as controlled and reviewing small moments, much like Kyle Walkers interview.

You cannot pin your hopes on winning a game with one chance...
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
32,441
151,867
Will it matter though? Southgate is incredibly principled and stubborn to a fault. I don't see him admitting he's got it wrong and changing things.

It's been blindingly obvious to a lot of us throughout his tenure, he's boring, uninspiring, and tactically way off the pace.

He's lucked out with good draws, having a squad of individuals that can get you through the easy rounds, and as soon as he faces real quality he's lost.

Can't go soon enough for my money.
I think it will hopefully mean he doesn’t get any ideas about staying on beyond the euros.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,619
43,435


Jonathan Liew absolutely nailing it on the head


He's a genius, and it's spot on.

The system is absolutely broken. Trying to pin the blame on individuals is a fools errand.

Southgate is the problem and he needs to figure it out. That left side is criminal and should be a sackable offence. As Liew says here we're refusing to use 30% of the pitch in attack!

What annoys me is how there is never any balance in anything he does, not just his starting lineups in this tournament.

Even his subs lacked balance. He finally put some players on that would run into space but then subbed off the best creators (Kane/Trent) at the same time!

Dropped Grealish and Maddison despite lacking players of that profile in the squad, instead taking Watkins and Bowen who are both players that want to run in behind.

Finally listened on dropping the likes of Phillips and Henderson, but went all the way with it and cut Rashford too, despite us lacking experience in the area of the pitch he can be very effective in, and has been for England before.

Showed some bollocks in picking Wharton but seemingly has no intention of putting him on the pitch.
 

aliyid

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2004
7,310
21,282
Drop Bellingham back next to Rice, put Foden at 10, play Gordon on the left and that'll create width, which stretches the defence allowing Foden and Bellingham to do what they're good at and exploit the space in between the defence.
It's exactly this and so blindingly obvious to every single person watching us play.

I'd even go one step further and say the first 5-10 mins we should constantly ping balls into the left channel forcing their RB to turn and chase Gordon. It'll sub-consciously make him take a few steps back and go wider to cover the space behind giving us more room in the middle for Foden, Bellingham & Kane to link up.

For some reason we're expecting Bellingham to carry the burden of all the creativity in the middle of the pitch. Get some extra flair in the middle for him to bounce off and we can really start giving teams something to worry about. They close down the space in the middle we slide in Saka or Gordon down the wings, they double up on the wings and we play neat triangles through the middle.
 

Kirito

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
5,159
10,267
Feel like the press and pundits have finally woken up to what a poor coach Southgate is this morning.
He’s actually pretty special, turning all the world class players into Sunday League fodder. Not all geniuses get the respect they deserve.
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,516
11,496
He's a genius, and it's spot on.

The system is absolutely broken. Trying to pin the blame on individuals is a fools errand.

Southgate is the problem and he needs to figure it out. That left side is criminal and should be a sackable offence. As Liew says here we're refusing to use 30% of the pitch in attack!

What annoys me is how there is never any balance in anything he does, not just his starting lineups in this tournament.

Even his subs lacked balance. He finally put some players on that would run into space but then subbed off the best creators (Kane/Trent) at the same time!

Dropped Grealish and Maddison despite lacking players of that profile in the squad, instead taking Watkins and Bowen who are both players that want to run in behind.

Finally listened on dropping the likes of Phillips and Henderson, but went all the way with it and cut Rashford too, despite us lacking experience in the area of the pitch he can be very effective in, and has been for England before.

Showed some bollocks in picking Wharton but seemingly has no intention of putting him on the pitch.

In short an absolute shambles of a coaching performance.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,966
17,496
I actually dozed off during the second half.
Forward, pass back under pressure, back, back, back to the goalkeeper. Pass forward until the point we come under pressure then pass back. Repeat ad nauseum.

Dull, dull, dull.
It's even worse than that IMO - we're not even really playing out properly from the back. It's mostly "back to goalkeeper, who hoofs it upfield a bit and then it comes back at us"
 

snakehipsspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
2,405
16,361
Been having a long think about how you make this team work, and I think the answer is this:

If you line up with:

Pickford

Walker - Stones - Guehi - Gomez

Bellingham - Rice

Saka - Foden - Gordon

Kane
The key to this is you allow Stones to play the way he does for City, stepping in as the 6 to protect alongside Rice to allow him to be more progressive. So in attack you'd be playing 3-2-4-1. It would look like the below:

Pickford

Walker - Guehi - Gomez

Stones - Rice

Saka - Foden - Bellingham - Gordon

Kane​


That would give a huge amount of defensive protection, and crucially you'd allow Gordon and Saka to be the ones providing attacking width, rather than relying on Walker and an out of position Trippier as the only wide options.

Crucially, the pace of the 4 behind Kane would aid pressing higher up the pitch much more too. I honestly think this is how someone like Potter or Howe would have lined the team up.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,966
17,496
Will it matter though? Southgate is incredibly principled and stubborn to a fault. I don't see him admitting he's got it wrong and changing things.

It's been blindingly obvious to a lot of us throughout his tenure, he's boring, uninspiring, and tactically way off the pace.

He's lucked out with good draws, having a squad of individuals that can get you through the easy rounds, and as soon as he faces real quality he's lost.

Can't go soon enough for my money.
Agreed, he even told us himself that he expects that one of the world class players in the team will step up each game and win it for us. This is his tactics - play as bland and vanilla as possible whilst hoping Kane/Bellingham/Saka/Foden dig him out of it with a moment of brilliance.

The scary thing is that last night he was nearly right, if Foden's shot against the post had gone in I genuinely believe Southgate would think his approach is fully working.
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,516
11,496
It's even worse than that IMO - we're not even really playing out properly from the back. It's mostly "back to goalkeeper, who hoofs it upfield a bit and then it comes back at us"

Question, what is our structure? I see little to no movement, half press, half sit back, no clear play style. I can’t work out what our plan is on the ball, I kind of get it when defending but on the ball I am not sure what our system is or what it is meant for.
 
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