The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - POST MORTEM EDITION

[Snarfalicious]

Complete side note from the conversation:

I wish we were in the market for a DM, because Victor Wanyama has got my attention. Strong not only in defense but on the ball. He actually can move up the pitch with the ball and he always looks in control. Really special looking player who I saw Arsenal/ManU were looking at (The article I read actually had us listed as interested as well... go figure).

 

[BK007]

The JJ tweet is laughable.

Anyway, it's amazing how one motherfucking lucky game can change the fate of multiple clubs.

Then again, if 'Arry the incompetent nincompoop hadn't gone for a draw against Norwich, I think it was, last season, we'd be in the CL and Arsenal would be a wasteland.

 

[SpurSince57]

I actually think if you swapped Levy and Aulus from Spurs to Lyon and visey-versey, the history of both clubs would be exactly the same. The two are almost identical in the way they run their clubs.

Except for the very large difference that Levy isn't having to sell all his players because the finances have gone tits-up. However, my point was that Aulas is the last person to be publicly bursting into tears and protesting about sharp negotiating practices. I'm sure there were a lot of people in French football enjoying a bit of schadenfreude (or whatever the Crapauds call it).

 

[thinktank]

You would not have seen him anyway! Too short

Ah, but surely the sun reflecting off of his shinehead would have been a dead giveaway.

 

[thinktank]

I included the link, sorry but it's been said a million times that the stadium investment (still no ground broken btw) has nothing to do with transfer funding and it certainly has fuck all to do with Levy's brinkmanship and the ever familiar series of events of the window and indeed the manager change.

Jol out, Ramos in - Tactical genius in for manager that had 'taken us as far as he could', the cusp of CL.

Berbatov & Keane - Won't be sold... Sold grudgingly. Failure to replace properly - Frazier Campbell. Then Pav in at a fraction of the cost. Later revealed that Levy had 'promised' Berbatov a move.

Anything sounding familiar?

I hope it doesn't go the same way, but this stinks of someone who clearly has not always made the right decisions not learning from mistakes.

Then there were the Aulas comments on Lloris, we've also been here before with DL...last year the Rossi - January story came out from one of the more respected Itk's that went something awfully like the same way.


Quote - Mr Pink said: ↑
Somebody said they had it from the horses mouth (Harry) that the Rossi deal was good to go, all but sewn up, and Levy dropped the offer at the last minute derailing the deal...and then returned at the end of the window with his suitcase of cash...:grin:

Paolo10
It was at the tail-end of last night, was from someone on another forum and was backed up by A&C and a couple of others but the guy had his figures wrong. Either way, it would very much appear that it was agreed, and DL tried to lowball them, which pissed them off something rotten and left us with no movement in that crucial January window (which ultimately may well have cost us our CL place).



I'll say it again...

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMN...This smells of Levy and it's a stench at the moment.

JJ said farcical. FARCICAL. Work it out.

Dembele is the smoking gun in all this. People still think Levy would spend 15mill. on him and then still go and buy moutinho for 20? lmfao. Dembele was always ratboy's replacement.

Love Levy and he's done a hell of a lot for us, but I just don't like this side of him.

 

[ealingspur]

If we take the hypothetical that JJ is actually close to the top, and knows things that are so delicate that they can't be posted here, a couple of questions arise.
a) if he knows that thousands of spurs fans and probably wider footballing journalists hang on his every word, why does he say such irresponsible things as "farcical" when referring to our dealings. Surely the negative impact of undermining our coach or our chairman or indeed their relationship outweighs the benefit of informing us masses... unless of course there is a personal benefit that we are not seeing.
b) if he has information that is too sensitive, then the information that he posts is not sensitive.
c) why does he feel it is necessary to describe our coaching staff as computer nerds/statisticians? I agree that he may well be a fan just like anyone else, with every right to an opinion, but unfortunately, his opinion shapes many other peoples. Im sure many people on this forum, lurkers and posters, will now think that the people in the know think that AVB et co. are simple stat pushers who dont understand what true football is and such an opinion will be at the very least partly informed by JJ's tweet.
d) personal gripe - why go on twitter for the very reason that you were unable to field questions effectively on SC, then start answering questions, then say "#stopaskingmequestions" - no one forces you to answer these questions, you do it because either you feel like you are providing us with a service or you derive a personal satisfaction or utility.

 

[Paolo10]

Dembele is the smoking gun in all this. People still think Levy would spend 15mill. on him and then still go and buy moutinho for 20? lmfao. Dembele was always ratboy's replacement.

Love Levy and he's done a hell of a lot for us, but I just don't like this side of him.

I'm not sure I entirely agree about Moutinho and the pseudo-conspiracy theory, but I've no doubt that the way he operates is what is currently really hurting us. It's like he has to 'win' every deal he does whether it be HR's new contract request or transfer dealings.

The economist in him wants to buy low and sell high and IMO this has shown that it's not always in the best interests of the team, but usually in the best interests of the finances. It's already hurt us and looks like he's not learning from his mistakes. That worries me.

 

[SteveH]

Dembele in the bag for £15m then Moutinho @£24m +wages?............not on my watch if I'm being honest.

I still think there is better value out there.

Just an opinion and I do think Moutinho is a very good play - but a little rich for us ATM.

 

[jimbo]

I'm not sure I entirely agree about Moutinho and the pseudo-conspiracy theory, but I've no doubt that the way he operates is what is currently really hurting us. It's like he has to 'win' every deal he does whether it be HR's new contract request or transfer dealings.

The economist in him wants to buy low and sell high and IMO this has shown that it's not always in the best interests of the team, but usually in the best interests of the finances. It's already hurt us and looks like he's not learning from his mistakes. That worries me.

I think the argument that it's actually hurt us as football club (and in this instance I'm taking hurt as more than inconvenienced or not advanced) if you believe that consistent Champions League qualification is possible in our current situation. I believe that we will struggle to achieve that until we have a new stadium and a better wage model so the aim as far as on field success goes is regular European qualification (CL = fantastic, UEFA = good) - I think this was one of the stated aims of ENIC when they took over.

Personally, having spent an entire decade longing to qualify for the UEFA (and suffering the Leverkusen debacle), I'm ok with that. We seem to have a lot of spoilt children amongst our fans at the moment (I don't mean you, just generally with all the booing) and that's quite embarrassing not to mention counterproductive so the more rational complaints get lumped in with them - as they encourage this bad behaviour. I think we need to think of ourselves as still in Stage One - regular European qualification (CL a bonus). When we have the new stadium we can move towards Stage Two - regular Champions League qualification/title challenge.

 

[$hoguN]

If we take the hypothetical that JJ is actually close to the top, and knows things that are so delicate that they can't be posted here, a couple of questions arise.
a) if he knows that thousands of spurs fans and probably wider footballing journalists hang on his every word, why does he say such irresponsible things as "farcical" when referring to our dealings. Surely the negative impact of undermining our coach or our chairman or indeed their relationship outweighs the benefit of informing us masses... unless of course there is a personal benefit that we are not seeing.
b) if he has information that is too sensitive, then the information that he posts is not sensitive.
c) why does he feel it is necessary to describe our coaching staff as computer nerds/statisticians? I agree that he may well be a fan just like anyone else, with every right to an opinion, but unfortunately, his opinion shapes many other peoples. Im sure many people on this forum, lurkers and posters, will now think that the people in the know think that AVB et co. are simple stat pushers who dont understand what true football is and such an opinion will be at the very least partly informed by JJ's tweet.
d) personal gripe - why go on twitter for the very reason that you were unable to field questions effectively on SC, then start answering questions, then say "#stopaskingmequestions" - no one forces you to answer these questions, you do it because either you feel like you are providing us with a service or you derive a personal satisfaction or utility.

He can do this because like us all he is a fan and has a right to express his views. It is not the guys fault that people hang on his every word and take everything he says as being ITK info.

 

[Yid121]

I love how we're STILL talking about ITKs

 

[ealingspur]

He can do this because like us all he is a fan and has a right to express his views. It is not the guys fault that people hang on his every word and take everything he says as being ITK info.

It's the accusation that people throw at Jon Stewart, and his retort is "Im a comedian, I can say what I want", when in reality he has assumed a larger role, that as the source of news and informer. JJetset is our Jon Stewart.
I think it is his fault that people hang on his every word. He sought after the ITK status. Nothing is stopping him from saying "Not ITK, but i think it's farcical", or "I personally think AVB and his team are computer geeks", and I think in doing so, it would make a big difference to people forming independent views.

 

[thinktank]

I'm not sure I entirely agree about Moutinho and the pseudo-conspiracy theory, but I've no doubt that the way he operates is what is currently really hurting us. It's like he has to 'win' every deal he does whether it be HR's new contract request or transfer dealings.

Do you honestly think he'd spend 15mill on Dembele and still buy mouts, Paolo. Really now, be honest with yourself.

There's no 'conspiracy', it's just DL doing a DL. He's all business, all the time.

That has had many commercial benefits for us but when it gets to the talent on the field being fit-for-purpose i.e. getting into the top echelon, it has proved to be detrimental at times.

The funny thing is, if he wasn't so stubbornly super prudent he'd recoup on investments as top four is there for the taking if you got a very good squad, not even fantastic, a la city, but just very good throughout; as United and the scum have dropped their quality level squad-wise and Liverpool are flapping in the wind.

United are an anomaly though, as they are so used to winning that they dig wins out of nowhere just because they have such self-belief which overrides lack of quality at times.

 

[$hoguN]

It's the accusation that people throw at Jon Stewart, and his retort is "Im a comedian, I can say what I want", when in reality he has assumed a larger role, that as the source of news and informer. JJetset is our Jon Stewart.
I think it is his fault that people hang on his every word. He sought after the ITK status. Nothing is stopping him from saying "Not ITK, but i think it's farcical", or "I personally think AVB and his team are computer geeks", and I think in doing so, it would make a big difference to people forming independent views.

That's bull mate. He shares some info with us, we enjoy it. He is not obligated too, he is not earning out of it, he is merely doing us a favour. If it bothers you that much just don't read what he says. He is entitled to to express any opinion he likes and shouldn't have to quantify it just because some people fall to pieces over everything he says. This whole wider responsibility argument doesn't wash with me.

 

[$hoguN]

Do you honestly think he'd spend 15mill on Dembele and still buy mouts, Paolo. Really now, be honest with yourself.

There's no 'conspiracy', it's just DL doing a DL. He's all business, all the time.

That has had many commercial benefits for us but when it gets to the talent on the field being fit-for-purpose i.e. getting into the top echelon, it's has proved to be detrimental at times.

Clearly he would have spent that money, as it has been widely reported we agreed a fee. He wouldn't have done it for shits and giggles. You're just trying too create issues which do not exist by suggesting anything otherwise.

 

[noahrobert]

Clearly he would have spent that money, as it has been widely reported we agreed a fee. He wouldn't have done it for shits and giggles. You're just trying too create issues which do not exist by suggesting anything otherwise.

I for one am expecting a big spend in the January window, when Ramos and Harry joined we pushed the boat out and backed them with big spending influx for our squad. AVB is owed this I beleive to build a team. Prep should begin now, can't see moutinho coming at any point now, let's aim at realistic potential targets and just feckin do it!

 

[mill]

Do you honestly think he'd spend 15mill on Dembele and still buy mouts, Paolo. Really now, be honest with yourself.

There's no 'conspiracy', it's just DL doing a DL. He's all business, all the time.

That has had many commercial benefits for us but when it gets to the talent on the field being fit-for-purpose i.e. getting into the top echelon, it's has proved to be detrimental at times.

The funny thing is, if he wasn't so stubbornly super prudent he'd recoup on investments as top four is there for the taking if you got a very good squad, not even fantastic, a la city, but just very good throughout; as United and the scum have dropped their quality level squad-wise and Liverpool are flapping in the wind.

United are an anomaly though, as they are so used to winning that they dig wins out of nowhere just because they have such self-belief which overrides lack of quality at times.

Fergie?

 

[Rupstoh]

Fergie?

How has Fergie managed this on 5th September? Oh, I see, medical in August......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-United-confirm-Angelo-Henriquez-signing.html

 

[Paolo10]

I think the argument that it's actually hurt us as football club (and in this instance I'm taking hurt as more than inconvenienced or not advanced) if you believe that consistent Champions League qualification is possible in our current situation. I believe that we will struggle to achieve that until we have a new stadium and a better wage model so the aim as far as on field success goes is regular European qualification (CL = fantastic, UEFA = good) - I think this was one of the stated aims of ENIC when they took over.

Personally, having spent an entire decade longing to qualify for the UEFA (and suffering the Leverkusen debacle), I'm ok with that. We seem to have a lot of spoilt children amongst our fans at the moment (I don't mean you, just generally with all the booing) and that's quite embarrassing not to mention counterproductive so the more rational complaints get lumped in with them - as they encourage this bad behaviour. I think we need to think of ourselves as still in Stage One - regular European qualification (CL a bonus). When we have the new stadium we can move towards Stage Two - regular Champions League qualification/title challenge.

I get exactly what you're saying, but we have very narrowly missed out on 3 occasions now, with the squad lacking in key areas. If ENIC want to qualify for the CL (and obtain the regular income an increased profile it provides) then the failings in the squad must be addressed.

We can't claim to not be a selling club when we keep selling our best players and not investing enough in replacing them, if it's about finding the players then the scouting system should be looked into.

The headlines were x player will not be sold, I've read too many of these comments now, only to see the players 'grudgingly'/'reluctantly' sold for massive profits and inadequately replaced. If we want to compete with the big boys either the stadium needs built or we need to invest more into the squad.

I don't think AVB has been given much of a chance by DL's methods and the team just looks so off, even in 'only the first 3 games' and all that.

Sometimes I get the impression DL sees the players only as assets like stocks to make a profit on, rather than what they'll bring to the team and when he says players aren't for sale, they are, but only if the profit is sweet enough.

If we don't build a strong squad to compete, we'll continue to lose our best players and we're so close at this point that progress is critical IMO. Otherwise, Bale, Walker, Sandro, Kaboul etc. are next.

We NEED the CL and I'm not sure if Levy's methods will get us there again. I hope so though.

 

[SteveH]

I for one am expecting a big spend in the January window, when Ramos and Harry joined we pushed the boat out and backed them with big spending influx for our squad. AVB is owed this I beleive to build a team. Prep should begin now, can't see moutinho coming at any point now, let's aim at realistic potential targets and just feckin do it!

I'm not expecting anything - until we see how the next 3 months pan out