The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - ITK THROUGH THE AGES 2nd August 2012

[Mr Pink]

To quote Stewart Lee, "Well..you can prove anything with facts can't you..."

exactly - in fact it totally reinforces the notion that stats don't even tell half the story.

 

[steve]

I'm a big fan of Dembele but I do wonder if he has the kind of tactical intelligence that AVB would be looking for in that area of the pitch. I'm not sure that he has the smarts to dictate a game in the way that Luka or Moutinho can, nor the discipline to sit back and read the play when Sandro makes his surges forward.

On the upside though Dembele and Sandro would give us a fantastic drive and physicality through the middle of the park. Dembele is also the only candidate being mentioned as a potential Modric replacement that could provide us with that elite level ball carrying ability that Luka does.

A million times agree with this. I know pinky and others are sucking him off big time at the moment and dem does have some excellent attributes but intelligence and composure aren't his strong points. My biggest problem with him is his propensity to hang onto the ball and take people on when he has players in better positions to receive the ball. Mod for all his guile and wonderful control in tight spaces, moves the ball around wonderfully and is an excellent pass and move footballer. Playing centrally he doesn't glide past people very often at all nor does he need to.

I prefer a system where the team and especially the midfield move the ball around quickly and attempt to isolate wingers against full backs and THEN drive or trick their way into good positions. It's one of our strengths with Lennon and especially Bale. I'm not against midfielders doing this sometimes but it can slow play down - a passed ball moves quicker than a dribbled one. Dem as a squad player would be good, dem as a Mod replacement (in whatever system AVB plays and let's face it, it won't be hugely different offensively to Harry's 433) is a bit underwhelming to say the least. He's talented but he's nowhere near mods class technically or mentally.

 

[HappySpur]

I posted Opta stats comparing Dembele, Modric, Parker and Mata in his thread. Might be helpful

 

[Mr Pink]

A million times agree with this. I know pinky and others are sucking him off big time at the moment and dem does have some excellent attributes but intelligence and composure aren't his strong points. My biggest problem with him is his propensity to hang onto the ball and take people on when he has players in better positions to receive the ball. Mod for all his guile and wonderful control in tight spaces, moves the ball around wonderfully and is an excellent pass and move footballer. Playing centrally he doesn't glide past people very often at all nor does he need to.

I prefer a system where the team and especially the midfield move the ball around quickly and attempt to isolate wingers against full backs and THEN drive or trick their way into good positions. It's one of our strengths with Lennon and especially Bale. I'm not against midfielders doing this sometimes but it can slow play down - a passed ball moves quicker than a dribbled one. Dem as a squad player would be good, dem as a Mod replacement (in whatever system AVB plays and let's face it, it won't be hugely different offensively to Harry's 433) is a bit underwhelming to say the least. He's talented but he's nowhere near mods class technically or mentally.

I havn't seen him do that too often, not suggesting that you havn't though Steve. He's not on Modric's level technically, I totally agree with you on that. But in a 4-3-3 I think he would do well and although he wouldn't have Modric's guile or ability to pick some of those passes he's fantastic at I do see him offering other strengths. I've always been impressed with his ability on the ball, the quick feet and touch etc passes it intelligently and his tackling is excellent. Away from home, with him in a three, I could see us being stronger in some respects.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

A million times agree with this. I know pinky and others are sucking him off big time at the moment and dem does have some excellent attributes but intelligence and composure aren't his strong points. My biggest problem with him is his propensity to hang onto the ball and take people on when he has players in better positions to receive the ball. Mod for all his guile and wonderful control in tight spaces, moves the ball around wonderfully and is an excellent pass and move footballer. Playing centrally he doesn't glide past people very often at all nor does he need to.

I prefer a system where the team and especially the midfield move the ball around quickly and attempt to isolate wingers against full backs and THEN drive or trick their way into good positions. It's one of our strengths with Lennon and especially Bale. I'm not against midfielders doing this sometimes but it can slow play down - a passed ball moves quicker than a dribbled one. Dem as a squad player would be good, dem as a Mod replacement (in whatever system AVB plays and let's face it, it won't be hugely different offensively to Harry's 433) is a bit underwhelming to say the least. He's talented but he's nowhere near mods class technically or mentally.

Good post Steve. Personally I think Allen would be the better fit, I think he's a very dynamic and efficient player (and he's only a couple of tackles behind Demblele - and I don't know who's played more) and recycles the ball continuously. Doesn't catch the eye like Dembele sometimes, but just goes about his business.

The more I think about Allen, the more I really like the idea.

 

[Living Legend Colm G]

akqayid ‏@akqayid
The only fax I know is in N17.... And it working on outgoings 1 to Holland, 1 to the champ and 1 to Spain. No names. Just#lockdownatthelane

 

[Living Legend Colm G]

akqayid ‏@akqayid
Daniel Levy - Mission Strikers, goalkeeper and back up winger.... Accepted

 

[Franchise60]

Lockdown!

 

[HappySpur]

SO he only knows of outgoing but is saying #SCITK to Dembele. What the hell? What of his ramblings can we consider is legit ITK, as Lloris and Ade are looking like opinions?

 

[Pedro]

Must have a close relationship with his source to get itk at gone 2am!

 

[marvel]

Is lockdown the new meltdown?

 

[Andre House Snake]

Whilst losing RVP would be a HUGE blow to the scum, it hasnt actually happened yet..... and to me actually looks less likely to happen this window than the Modric transfer.

Giroud was Ligue 1's top scorer last year, so at 10m is pretty decent purchase.
Podolski reminds me very much of RVP, he did fail at Bayern but has been pretty successful everywhere else. Again at approx 10m is certainly an upgrade on Chamakh & Park.

With Carzola & possibly Sahin coming in, even if they lose RVP they dont really looker any weaker. In fact overall squad wise.... they will probably be stronger! and god help us if they manage to keep RVP too!!

As everyone knows we need strikers, but really starting to get worried as I cant see who we realistically can sign who is even going to keep us at the level of last year..... let alone improve!!!

I agree with the all of your post except the part about Podoski being pretty successful everywhere else. He has done well for the national team however I have watched a fair bit of the Bundesliga over the last 6 years and he has been average player in that league. His goals per game record is reasonable but I have never been particularily impressed by his play or all round ability.

 

[EJWTartanSpur]

If we ever reach meltlock, we'll all be fucked...

 

[doom]

we'll be fucked if we are going down down

 

[doom]

I don't get this Sahin loan to Arsenal business, what good does it do RM - is this part of a deal to bring in Van Pussy which then enables us to part exchange Modric with Higuan??

 

[etchedchaos]

I don't get this Sahin loan to Arsenal business, what good does it do RM - is this part of a deal to bring in Van Pussy which then enables us to part exchange Modric with Higuan??

The Sahin thing sounds like a surefire way to make Levy increase his valuation. I would've thought they understood him enough to know playing games gets you nowhere.

 

[SandroClegane]

Podolski reminds me very much of RVP, he did fail at Bayern but has been pretty successful everywhere else. Again at approx 10m is certainly an upgrade on Chamakh & Park.

Everywhere else refers only to Cologne. He hasn't been anywhere else. Was horrible in the Euros and Germany was better when he wasn't playing. Completely overrated.

And not even close to RVP.

 

[HappySpur]

Sahin goes to Arsenal, my gut tells me that Levy accepts a bid from PSG and tells Modric and Madrid what he thinks of such shenanigans. He's held out against PSG because he thought he couldn't get Modric to go, but accept and move on.

 

[puella]

I don't get this Sahin loan to Arsenal business, what good does it do RM - is this part of a deal to bring in Van Pussy which then enables us to part exchange Modric with Higuan??

I don't think RM is in for RVP. Sahin isn't going to get any playing time if Modric comes in so he needs to go out on loan if he wants to play. AVB doesn't seem to want him and we just have to accept that.

 

[HappySpur]

I don't think RM is in for RVP. Sahin isn't going to get any playing time if Modric comes in so he needs to go out on loan if he wants to play. AVB doesn't seem to want him and we just have to accept that.

I will accept that he's not coming here. I will never accept that he doesn't want him. He makes Dembele look like me. Also despite his personal issues, but let's put in 15m for M'Vila. It's that cheap and we can fix him.