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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Groundhog Day you say? Groundhog Day you say?

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whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
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See this is another thing I'm not entirely sure I agree on, the need for him to loan out players or indeed that he's entirely responsible for not doing so. This is again one of those things we decide upon without knowing the facts. Do we know who is actually responsible for youth development? What input does he have on deciding who goes out on loan. Who decides when a player is ready for that. I feel the balance of probability is that Poch would be guided by those who know the player best. That they'd have a chat about certain players and decide how to proceed from there. It's not all 'on Poch' as people used to like to say.

Is a player ready to go out on loan
Would a player benefit more from being around the squad/training with the first team etc etc
Can we actually find that player a suitable club
If we can, does that club want to take him, does that player want to go there

For sure there are instances where we can't understand why this or that player didn't get farmed out but we don't know the inside story enough to make a definitive judgement on it, certainly not enough to blame it on Pochettino. IMO if we asked the question of someone who knows the full story and actually got an answer, we'd look at it and go ""oh yeah, makes sense I suppose". At the end of the day, some players go out on loan, some don't......

We all know about Urban Legends right? IMO there's a lot of 'Spurban Legends" floating around SC, people say stuff often enough and it becomes fact. This player sulks (he doesn't), that player is too big for his boots because he points (He's not) and so on........I think this youth thing, in the grand scheme of Poch's tenure isn't a massive deal but it's seemingly become one. No idea why but for me........spurban legend.

*Reads the above

Fucking hell, I don't know what's happening to me, it must be that osmosis thing again :D
Another cracking post, although I'm not sure osmosis is the right word.
Osmosis is about movement of water, (usually). If you are absorbing something unpleasant across your membranes then it might be by diffusion alone.?
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
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Another cracking post, although I'm not sure osmosis is the right word.
Osmosis is about movement of water, (usually). If you are absorbing something unpleasant across your membranes then it might be by diffusion alone.?

Thanks

Yeah it can mean that, but also..........the process of gradual or unconscious assimilation of ideas, knowledge, etc.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
3,970
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Another cracking post, although I'm not sure osmosis is the right word.
Osmosis is about movement of water, (usually). If you are absorbing something unpleasant across your membranes then it might be by diffusion alone.?
My Internal science Nazi... must resist...too strong...aaaahhhh....
 

Snarfalicious

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
15,709
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Referring back to ITK about Jose wanting to wait for the player he wants at the Center Forward position, I think it's going to be Victor Osimhen from Lille. I think he'll see Osimhen and think of Samuel Eto'o. Has played CF, great size/speed combo, offers something different to Kane and can play out wide, too. Not saying we are going to get him, he'll have plenty of suitors, but think he's going to be the target.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
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Referring back to ITK about Jose wanting to wait for the player he wants at the Center Forward position, I think it's going to be Victor Osimhen from Lille. I think he'll see Osimhen and think of Samuel Eto'o. Has played CF, great size/speed combo, offers something different to Kane and can play out wide, too. Not saying we are going to get him, he'll have plenty of suitors, but think he's going to be the target.

The talk was that whoever this CF is, he’s intimated he’d be interested, so you could assume the Lille coaching old boys may have an inside track there, maybe Soumare also.
 

THOWIG

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,499
8,329
Referring back to ITK about Jose wanting to wait for the player he wants at the Center Forward position, I think it's going to be Victor Osimhen from Lille. I think he'll see Osimhen and think of Samuel Eto'o. Has played CF, great size/speed combo, offers something different to Kane and can play out wide, too. Not saying we are going to get him, he'll have plenty of suitors, but think he's going to be the target.

I agree. Heard very good things about him. Think he could play alongside Kane too if we ever wanted too.
 

Havre

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
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This is purely a guess, but I assume it’s because he was so entrenched into his philosophy and the intensity of his training that he didn’t think it would be beneficial for the academy prospects to be at another club.

Whereas Jose ( and Redknapp ) are more pragmatic ( maybe more old school if you like) and think experience of playing games and being battled hardened are more important.

Sounds reasonable to me. I don't mind having young players hanging around the first team. But the way Pochettino had someone like KWP hanging around until he was well passed 20 was borderline sadistic. You almost got to wonder if Pochettino had something personal against KWP trying to ruin his career.

Personally I think Pochettino got lost in his own hype. As you say he wanted to shape young players himself because leaving it to other clubs to shape his players would just possibly ruin them.

Send them out, but make sure they know you are still watching them. Just sad when you read how we treated the likes of Caulker. Of course it is a case of sink or swim in professional football, but they are still young boys. Sounds like Mourinho has reflected a lot around these things as he has gotten older. Let us hope he has become good at it as well. To me it is not only about playing the best young players. It is about getting the best out of all of them. Even another Oshea can have great value for a good team.
 

razzmaster

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
2,311
13,051
Referring back to ITK about Jose wanting to wait for the player he wants at the Center Forward position, I think it's going to be Victor Osimhen from Lille. I think he'll see Osimhen and think of Samuel Eto'o. Has played CF, great size/speed combo, offers something different to Kane and can play out wide, too. Not saying we are going to get him, he'll have plenty of suitors, but think he's going to be the target.

Wouldn't be surprised to see us try for a double deal with Lille for Osimhen and Soumare.
 

garyhopkins

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2008
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903
I understood his logic at the time of keeping them developing in our ethos but we saw a couple of the most promising players like KWP and Onomah suffer and the fact that they are the only 2 of the 11 who won that youth world cup not playing regularly either in the prem or bundesliga over the past 18 months does make it look worse imo.
Freddie Woodman, Jake Clarke-Salter and Keiran Dowell say hi, and really wish your 2 out of 11 was correct...
 

scissor_gang

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2012
164
300
Disagree though I'm sure you're joking.

I find A&C's recent posts thoughtful, considered, and insightful and am pleasantly surprised. I've enjoyed reading them much more that the mum jokes or the ban threats.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
Overall, not the worst window. I do still worry about the inability of our scouting setup to identify the quality we need. This is where I hope we can get someone like Luis Campos in before the summer, to provide some serious structure and vision.
The upsides could well far outweigh the lack of a striker. A change to 433, as some are suggesting may be upon us, looking at what we have, could negate the need for an out and out target man initially, focusing on pace and technique. With a shift to 3 CM’s, we may hopefully see more opportunities for Skipp, plus Parrott getting minutes off the bench as our only legit CF. Tanganga likewise hopefully getting minutes with Walker-Peters and Rose both gone, whilst he may more likely play FB for now, that could help his development longer term for CB.
Secondly, the shift in focus on the development side, getting players out to experience actual first team football, see who sinks and who swims, rather than leave them playing U23 football. Also letting those leave. who may have stagnated, allowing a clearer path for the talents from the age below to step up.
What I do like is all the positivity around plans for the summer, seems we know what we want to do already, and have a profile of the sort of player we want. Young hungry players who are both athletic and technical, not just one or other.

I agree but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. We have heard this before only to be left disappointed. “Lessons have been learnt” etc.

Players aren’t on board until they’ve signed a contract with us. First option, good relationship with selling club, whatever. Until it’s signed then anything can happen. There’s no scruples in football.
 

jurgen

Busy ****
Jul 5, 2008
6,710
17,167
Sounds reasonable to me. I don't mind having young players hanging around the first team. But the way Pochettino had someone like KWP hanging around until he was well passed 20 was borderline sadistic. You almost got to wonder if Pochettino had something personal against KWP trying to ruin his career.

Personally I think Pochettino got lost in his own hype. As you say he wanted to shape young players himself because leaving it to other clubs to shape his players would just possibly ruin them.

Send them out, but make sure they know you are still watching them. Just sad when you read how we treated the likes of Caulker. Of course it is a case of sink or swim in professional football, but they are still young boys. Sounds like Mourinho has reflected a lot around these things as he has gotten older. Let us hope he has become good at it as well. To me it is not only about playing the best young players. It is about getting the best out of all of them. Even another Oshea can have great value for a good team.
You can list probably twenty things Mourinho has done that are genuinely sadistic compared to your weird suppositions you make about Poch’s relationship with KWP there...

I suppose what we can see is that mentality is so important to Mourinho and maybe Tanganga is not as fancy a footballer as Foyth but he’s come in and been rock solid and so ultimately been more productive in his short time. I also like Foyth but if Mourinho can keep promoting select young players who have ‘it’, just like Kane does despite not initially being the most hyped youth player, then we’ll do well.
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
Leave this for the summer, but will get it in now. A particular young midfielder & striker in France. We are clear in front, if! We want to do the deals. Names shared indoors
 

Jamturk

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2008
9,871
22,934
I'm quite happy with the quality of purchases we have made over the last 2 windows.

It's better to wait for the quality than dive in and end up with deadwood.

It will pay dividends if we remain patient.
 
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