The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Groundhog Day you say? Groundhog Day you say?

[chrissivad]

Hmm, their striker we were after doesn't even make it on their bench. That's how different their striker hunt was from ours.

Or how poor the option was...

 

[Hakkz]

Or how poor the option was...

Or how the managers prefer different kind of strikers...

 

[wrd]

If you look at where we were at the end of December and where we are now we're probably better off in three areas, but significantly worse off up front:

Goalkeeper - Hugo's back from injury

Defenders - Rose sold, Tanganga debut

Midfield/Wing - Eriksen sold, Bergwijn in.

Striker - Kane injury.

As others have said not signing a Llorente replacement in the summer is what's hurting us now rather than the failure to get someone in during this window.

With the lack of Llorente replacement, I guess we have to accept this is one of the growing pains of switching managers with very different styles in the middle of the season. Poch probably wanted a replacement for Llorente but had shown he can cope without one meanwhile Jose is more focused on having that be the focal point of his team. I don't think it's either managers fault just one of the symptoms of switching managers midway rather than having the pre-season blueprint.

 

[Meercat]

I think the fact we have the second highest spend on transfers this season despite having just built the stadium can’t be ignored. We’ve brought in some incredible talent since the summer. Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Fernandes, Bergwijn, Clarke, I mena if these work out we are looking at the core of the new Spurs...

It’s more than I imagined we’d bring in, but there’s the negative - we let Llorente go and Kane is injured. The reality is there are 14 PL games, plus the cup matches left... do we buy the wrong forward for 14 games and try to offload when the right one is there, or do we try to make do... I’ve got a feeling we look to replicate the interchangeable front three idea of a couple of years back, and see a rotation of Son, Moura, Lamela, Bengwijn with a combo of Dele, Lo Celso and Ndombele behind... there’s goals there even if there isn’t a front man... it’s pragmatism, I think... not ideal, and it makes us feel a bit like the window has been a failure, but viewed as a whole, maybe just maybe 85% of the painful rebuild is complete and we’ve got two bits of the puzzle left for next window, a DM and a second CF... that would mean a complete refresh of the team in a 12 month period, with the aging and discontent gone and a return to a much younger line up. I can get behind that as a fan.

Sure, I think as second supporting hold up striker Giroud would have done a very decent job - he doesn’t score enough for a main CF and needs far too many chances, but what he does, like Llorente, and Crouch before him, is being a foil for the players sweeping in from midfield and setting them up for goals. We could do with that, but rose tinted glasses aside, we seldom played to Llorente’s strength and he looked more like a tree than a goal threat and I can understand why Poch let him leave (though suspect Jose wouldn’t have) ...

I think we are getting there, and I’m kinda excited to see what the new boys bring,

In terms of top four, it feels a bit like the least shit team will get 3-4... so it’s more who loses the least, not necessarily who wins the most...

 

[FinnYid]

Or how the managers prefer different kind of strikers...

Well that too, but guess any manager would prefer Abraham and Batshuayi to no striker?

 

[parj]

I think the fact we have the second highest spend on transfers this season despite having just built the stadium can’t be ignored. We’ve brought in some incredible talent since the summer. Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Fernandes, Bergwijn, Clarke, I mena if these work out we are looking at the core of the new Spurs...

It’s more than I imagined we’d bring in, but there’s the negative - we let Llorente go and Kane is injured. The reality is there are 14 PL games, plus the cup matches left... do we buy the wrong forward for 14 games and try to offload when the right one is there, or do we try to make do... I’ve got a feeling we look to replicate the interchangeable front three idea of a couple of years back, and see a rotation of Son, Moura, Lamela, Bengwijn with a combo of Dele, Lo Celso and Ndombele behind... there’s goals there even if there isn’t a front man... it’s pragmatism, I think... not ideal, and it makes us feel a bit like the window has been a failure, but viewed as a whole, maybe just maybe 85% of the painful rebuild is complete and we’ve got two bits of the puzzle left for next window, a DM and a second CF... that would mean a complete refresh of the team in a 12 month period, with the aging and discontent gone and a return to a much younger line up. I can get behind that as a fan.

Sure, I think as second supporting hold up striker Giroud would have done a very decent job - he doesn’t score enough for a main CF and needs far too many chances, but what he does, like Llorente, and Crouch before him, is being a foil for the players sweeping in from midfield and setting them up for goals. We could do with that, but rose tinted glasses aside, we seldom played to Llorente’s strength and he looked more like a tree than a goal threat and I can understand why Poch let him leave (though suspect Jose wouldn’t have) ...

I think we are getting there, and I’m kinda excited to see what the new boys bring,

In terms of top four, it feels a bit like the least shit team will get 3-4... so it’s more who loses the least, not necessarily who wins the most...

We should have kept Llorente

 

[FinnYid]

Or how poor the option was...

Like many other stop gap options we courted, yet we saw them as improvements - again shows the difference between those striker hunts.

 

[Metalhead]

5/10 window for the short term, 8/10 window for the long term is the way I see it. The business we have done is solid stuff and I like the fact they're under 23 players. I'd much prefer us to spend large sums on these types of young players than has beens or players even just past their peak. Pretty pleased with the outs also, but I guess we are relying on Tanganga a lot to cover a few positions.

My only gripe is not getting a striker in on loan. But that is a pretty big cock up that we've made there. The reality is we really needed a number 9 to see us through the next few months which could be pivotal to where we end up next season. There is nothing wrong with a stop gap to come in and help us until we get who we really want in the summer. I appreciate that we don't want to spend tens of millions of pounds on a striker we're not sure about but I can't help but think had we chucked more money at loan fees then we could have got a pretty good option in. I don't really think there can be an excuse for it in all honesty. There is a reason Mourinho wanted somebody in and i'm personally expecting a Europa League place finish because of that.

I wonder why United didn't pursue the targets that we did.

 

[Havre]

To me it is also about not messing up in windows. We could have gone old school Mourinho bringing in all that experience (another Matic maybe). I don't know Fernandes, but he looks promising. Bergwijn is brilliant work by the club. Not like other clubs weren't interested. Shouldn't take those small wins for granted.

It never works out that way, but if Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Bergwijn and Fernandes can all contribute we have bought half a new starting lineup in two windows. Add the likes of Tanganga and I am quite impressed by how we have quietly restructured. Could always be better, but holy it could have been a lot worse.

 

[WiganSpur]

To me it is also about not messing up in windows. We could have gone old school Mourinho bringing in all that experience (another Matic maybe). I don't know Fernandes, but he looks promising. Bergwijn is brilliant work by the club. Not like other clubs weren't interested. Shouldn't take those small wins for granted.

It never works out that way, but if Lo Celso, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Bergwijn and Fernandes can all contribute we have bought half a new starting lineup in two windows. Add the likes of Tanganga and I am quite impressed by how we have quietly restructured. Could always be better, but holy it could have been a lot worse.

The idea of a quiet revolution definitely holds some truth. I get the feeling we won't be targeting big names in the summer, but hopefully they are similar signings to Bergwijn and Fernandes in their profile. If we continue to make progress this summer by getting in at least 3 of the 4 players probably required then I really believe we can go under the radar next season. Opponents will be underestimating us and the general press line still seems to be that Jose is finished and Levy dropped a bollock. We can use that to our advantage to rack up some early wins without the pressure being on us.

 

[Havre]

The idea of a quiet revolution definitely holds some truth. I get the feeling we won't be targeting big names in the summer, but hopefully they are similar signings to Bergwijn and Fernandes in their profile. If we continue to make progress this summer by getting in at least 3 of the 4 players probably required then I really believe we can go under the radar next season. Opponents will be underestimating us and the general press line still seems to be that Jose is finished and Levy dropped a bollock. We can use that to our advantage to rack up some early wins without the pressure being on us.

I agree. And I don't think we should underestimate the star potential of Lo Celso and Ndombele. Liverpool had the front three and van Dijk. Supplemented with Trent and Robertson. It is not like the rest are miles ahead of us. If Kane can get back to his best. Maybe Son and one out of Bergwijn, Sanchez etc can surprise us and take that next step and suddenly there is a very solid core there. A lot of ifs and buts of course, but it is not a bad starting point. And if we could get one more top player (CD or DM) come summer... maybe I'm too optimistic, but.... I like our core better than Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal's. Liverpool will age and even City might have some question marks. Not so that I think we are destined to dominate, but 1.5 years from now I could see us going in to the season with an outside shot at the title.

 

[Jamturk]

It's all about the dynamic for me, if Mourinho can create that in the group we are onto good times.

 

[soflapaul]

rock solid from cabinessence: JM has eye on someone for the summer who we can't get at the mo, but he has signaled his enthusiasm to sign, so back-up striker was only ever going to be a loan with option to buy, just in case they tore the place up. But obligation to buy was not an option. With the Polish striker, DL was prepared to accept obligation, but only if he could put performance conditions in there that he could control, such as number of appearances. Would have been ok, had not Hertha come in with permanent bid. Pretty much the same with all the other options, where clubs were insisting on obligations. Plus the players knew they were only stop-gap till the summer, so weren't exactly bursting at the seams to sign. And before you ask, no idea whatsoever who the summer fella is

This completes the puzzle that the ITKers all had a piece of. Now it all makes more sense. Thanks Dovahkiin

 

[spursville]

Demebele and Eriksen controlled games. Dembele left and Eriksen had to move back and we weren't as fluid. We don't yet have two players who can replace those two and even if we did the current system(s) and structure is vague and not possession based enough to create control. We have signed some very promising players but will there be the control and fluidity that Poch managed to create in his pomp? I still can't see an exciting philosophy and structure that the players have bought into.

 

[Havre]

Demebele and Eriksen controlled games. Dembele left and Eriksen had to move back and we weren't as fluid. We don't yet have two players who can replace those two and even if we did the current system(s) and structure is vague and not possession based enough to create control. We have signed some very promising players but will there be the control and fluidity that Poch managed to create in his pomp? I still can't see an exciting philosophy and structure that the players have bought into.

Not easy being exciting when Dier, Sissoko, a lazy Eriksen etc. are your options. Including last summer I think we are bringing in exciting players. I will give it more time for making my judgement on how exciting we will be. I am as well expecting a lot more than what we are currently getting.

 

[McFlash]

Hmm, their striker we were after doesn't even make it on their bench. That's how different their striker hunt was from ours.

Agree and yet Frankie was still moaning to the media about not getting any signings.
I actually feel a bit sorry for Giroud in all of this, he never plays and may well be saying goodbye to any chance of playing at the Euros.

 

[thekneaf]

Hmm, their striker we were after doesn't even make it on their bench. That's how different their striker hunt was from ours.

They don't have anyone up front like kane, when fit. And Tammy is starting to blow cold, he may only be a Son level no.9 in numbers.

Caveat before people bite my head off, I too am disappointed in no new CF.

However, thinking about this, Rashford was 18 when he got his break due to total desperation. Parrott is 18 next week, maybe he can be the player we need.

 

[McFlash]

Demebele and Eriksen controlled games. Dembele left and Eriksen had to move back and we weren't as fluid. We don't yet have two players who can replace those two and even if we did the current system(s) and structure is vague and not possession based enough to create control. We have signed some very promising players but will there be the control and fluidity that Poch managed to create in his pomp? I still can't see an exciting philosophy and structure that the players have bought into.

I don't know, I think we've been seeing some positive signs in recent games and when you consider that the player availability has been sketchy, what with injuries, I'm quite optimistic.
The players haven't quite clicked yet but the signs are definitely there.

Considering what he had to do, I think Jose is doing pretty well in a short space of time.

 

[McFlash]

Or how poor the option was...

All the options were pretty poor, which is why I'm reasonably happy that we kept our money.

 

[wrd]

All the options were pretty poor, which is why I'm reasonably happy that we kept our money.

All depends how we spend it in the summer, it will either be fully vindicated or cause further frustration.