The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Groundhog Day you say? Groundhog Day you say?

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doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
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To add to the Campos news. I am not putting my nads on the line! As likely as it looks; as Jose wanted him months ago, and was told at the time we were trying to work it somehow. Let’s hope this transpires. My own opinion is it will eventually happen. But! My opinion!
I miss your nads on the line. That was a good summer. Trombones also
 

IamSpurtacus

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I think there would be a lot of benefit from a DoF, especially one jose rates

But let's not get carried away as if it's some magic bullet.

Bringing in raw talent for comparatively little is easier to do in a smaller league for smaller clubs. The pressure is lower, the likelihood of being squeezed much reduced.

Clinton N'jie and Kevin N'koudu cost more than Mbappe, Pepe, Lemar and Martial combined...not all of that is down to poor negotiation by Levy/Mitchell when they shipped in those two non entities

Clubs charge a premier league-premium

Building a team for 20M at Lille or a cash strapped Monaco isn't the same as building a team where Clubs will know the cash is there (even if there's a short term hit)

 
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nailsy

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I think there would be a lot of benefit from a DoF, especially one jose rates

But let's not get carried away as if it's some magic bullet.

Bringing in raw talent for comparatively little is easier to do in a smaller league for smaller clubs. The pressure is lower, the likelihood of being squeezed much reduced.

Clinton N'jie and Kevin N'koudu cost more than Mbappe, Pepe, Lemar and Martial combined...not all of that is down to poor negotiation by Levy/Mitchell when they shipped in those two non entities

Clubs charge a premier league-premium

Building a team for 20M at Lille or a cash strapped Monaco isn't the same as building a team where Clubs will know the cash is there (even if there's a short term hit)

Mbappe was over a £100M!!! How much did we pay for N'jie and N'koudu :wideyed:
 

nailsy

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Mbappe was a kid bought in by monaco when Campos was there
I know I was joking. It was obviously a great signing, but you can't really compare the free transfer of a 15/16 year old to us paying a transfer fee for players that were already established in their team/league at the time we signed them.
 

Wig

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I know I was joking. It was obviously a great signing, but you can't really compare the free transfer of a 15/16 year old to us paying a transfer fee for players that were already established in their team/league at the time we signed them.
No, but it helps having a DoF who can identify and secure those leading youth prospects before their breakthrough, rather than paying over the odds for semi-potential players who have one or two years top flight experience.
 

nailsy

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No, but it helps having a DoF who can identify and secure those leading youth prospects before their breakthrough, rather than paying over the odds for semi-potential players who have one or two years top flight experience.
Yep. And it also helps if you have a manager who will give them a chance to breakthrough. It no good having one without the other. Not having a go at Jose here as he's obviously pushing for Campos so he must invested in what he brings.
 

BringBack_leGin

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No, but it helps having a DoF who can identify and secure those leading youth prospects before their breakthrough, rather than paying over the odds for semi-potential players who have one or two years top flight experience.
Precisely. And even if the prospect is better known, it still needs a strong DOF to make sure he’s the right fit and also convince him that we’re the right club as such a player will always have other suitors if high repute.

I personally think that had Baldini remained, or at least been replaced sufficiently, then that period where we were on the cusp might have actually seen us get over the line. I certainly think that at worst we’d have not seen the tail off of post- summer 2018 as we’d have had a fresh pool of talent coming through the way we used to.
 

carpediem991

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I think there would be a lot of benefit from a DoF, especially one jose rates

But let's not get carried away as if it's some magic bullet.

Bringing in raw talent for comparatively little is easier to do in a smaller league for smaller clubs. The pressure is lower, the likelihood of being squeezed much reduced.

Clinton N'jie and Kevin N'koudu cost more than Mbappe, Pepe, Lemar and Martial combined...not all of that is down to poor negotiation by Levy/Mitchell when they shipped in those two non entities

Clubs charge a premier league-premium

Building a team for 20M at Lille or a cash strapped Monaco isn't the same as building a team where Clubs will know the cash is there (even if there's a short term hit)


Another thing is these players who all came good all had time to come good. Here the pressure is very high to deliver straight away. You don't get the time here to get lots of minutes and take it easy. Some people even here call out our highly rated prospects like Sessegnon or Gedson for being not good enough. It is a different task here.

I want him too and think we need him but I think we should not expect wonders over night.
 

HildoSpur

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Will be very happy if we secure Campos. I like having a DOF in the club and by all accounts he is one of the best around.
 

matty74

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ESPN reporting there is no truth in it and that we are not interested. According to then he is set to go to Monaco
 

GRspurs11

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ESPN reporting there is no truth in it and that we are not interested. According to then he is set to go to Monaco
So many conflicting stories atm. I assume if we wanted him and Levy gives it the green light he would come - just a question now if Levy does.
 

Adam Zampa

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ESPN reporting there is no truth in it and that we are not interested. According to then he is set to go to Monaco
Do you really think an American network would have any idea about European Business? I think I'd rather trust the Portuguese BBC equivalent who said it's happening, and the people here that said it was happening when Mourinho and Sacramento came.
 

C0YS

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Okay. If Jose wants him, and we are going to fully back Jose I'm happy for us to go for it. But there seems to be a misunderstanding of what a DoF is.

A DoF's job is not really to find hidden gems (it's debatable whether this is really possible to do nowdays anyway), and if that's a problem for the club we should be looking at improving our scouting and recruitment, not getting in a new DoF. In fact, in most countries where the DoF is an established position it is no more likely to be given to people with scouting experience over coaches or former players, often right out of retirement.

A DoF's principle aim is to look after the mid to long term vision of the club, act as an intermediary between the board and the manager (including in issues of recruitment) and relieve pressure on the manager (and board) by allowing the manager to focus on games rather than other aspects (including assessing potential targets, but rarely discovering them).

The aspects of the role tend to be varied, it certainly can be in contributing to a coherent transfer strategy, as well as keeping check on things like youth development etc. It can also involve negotiating on transfer deals, or identifying transfer targets, but these targets (unless from contacts) are normally already sounded out by a head of recruitment or chief scout. The DoF's job is to see which players fit the vision of a club in dialogue with both the manager and the chairman. Almost all of these decisions are complex and should be done collectively (sunderland till I die is a great way to see how, through a largely dysfunctional transfer committee, transfers are decided and negotiated on).

Essentially, a lot of their job is being a middle man, and I'm sure as those with experience of these kind of structures in work environments can attest, this can cause problems, some that we have seen previously at this club. Namely, if a DoF isn't on the same page as the manager it can cause serious damage, at least in the short term, for the club. the Dof needs to be on the same page as the manager to avoid tension and the managers vision being fulfilled (or the visa versa, if a DoF is the one who is part of recruiting a manager to fulfil his own vision). Furthermore, the DoF can act in a way that actually ends up hindering direct communication and understanding between the Board and the Manager. But if Jose asked for Campos then the DoF could be very helpful.

In hoping for a good director of football, what we should see is:

Sensible player recruitment based on key needs in line with the vision of the club, both for the future and present. These are unlikely to be 'hidden gems' but players we will already know about that we see fit within what we are trying to do at the club.

We should see a more focused manager and a chairman better able to cater for the manager needs and therefore, you would hope, a improvement on the field.

Finally, we should also see seamless transition over the years of old players being replaced with younger ones without needing any serious 'rebuilding' (this doesn't just mean transfers, but also understanding youth development at the club). The latter will only really be the case if the DoF is seen as a long term strategy and when hiring (and possibly even firing) a manager is decided on principally by the DoF. Because otherwise you will just continue to yo-yo between strategies and then the DoF is of limited future benefit.
 
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rawhide

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Do you really think an American network would have any idea about European Business? I think I'd rather trust the Portuguese BBC equivalent who said it's happening, and the people here that said it was happening when Mourinho and Sacramento came.
You really think the reporting of news works according to the location of the media outlet, or do you think it’s reasonable for media outlets to employ journalists all over the world that report on news in their locations?
 
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