The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 8th January

[SUIYHA]

I’m sorry but this is just shocking and I’m not saying it because we lost today.

These are not the type of signings to propel us any further up the table.

Do people really think Poch is happy signings prospects from the championship? Is this really what the new stadium is for? The big game changer to allow us to move up a level?

Bowen and Aaron's. It’s like Spurs haven’t changed from the days of Davies and Etherington.

It’s just deflating. Yes they may work out, but it’s incredibly unlikely. These are the deals clubs like Bournemouth do, not a top 3 side like we are now.

It’s bad enough that a side who were behind us last season now look like winning the league because they filled the holes in their squad. What are we doing? Where’s the ambition Levy?

Our squad is down to the bare bones. Our CM situation and striker situations are literally critically bad.

I absolutely refuse to believe Poch is happy with this type of “backing”.

I'll remind you that we've signed the likes of Alli, Bale, Lennon and Dawson from the Championship who have come in and made an immediate impact to the first team. Rose and Walker too after blooding them through the youth system.

Or we could just go out and spend £200m on Bakayoko, Rudiger, Morata, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. Because, you know, ambition. Maybe we should have taken out a second loan on the stadium so that we could free up some cash to splash out on Fred, Dalot, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitaryan/Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc. I look at all those players that lot from down the road have signed in the last few years, if only we'd been more proactive....

People keep bringing up Liverpool as the shining example as to what spending money can do, forgetting that they were notoriously bad at getting the big money transfers right for years and years. Benteke, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli, Stewart Downing, Andy fucking Carroll...need I go on. They have lucked out in the last two seasons and made some very good signings, but they quite simply would not have had the budget to do what they have done if they hadn't a) Reached a Champions League final and b) Sold a £120m asset. Neither of those things applied to us, instead the thing that DOES apply to us is a £627m capex project to drain our resources. The idea that we could have made moves like Liverpool did in the transfer market without selling any big players is absolutely ridiculous. If we'd cashed in on Toby to free up funds for Jack Grealish like Poch wanted, then yes we'd have an extra body in CM but how "ambitious" would you be calling Levy then? Seems like a lifetime ago that people used to laugh at him for wasting big money on high profile flops like David Bentley and Darren Bent every year, and I have to say Poch's record in the transfer market even when given relatively decent budgets to spend has been pretty hit and miss throughout his career so it's not like overspending at this time when finances are tight is a low risk strategy. No, that doesn't forgive not signing anyone at all but a bit of perspective is needed.

Clearly, we do need to add to the squad. But we need to be realistic. What I find so annoying is when we see players like Robertson, Maddison and Brooks tearing things up in the PL and our fan base complaining that we didn't take a chance on them when they were young and available at a good price in the Championship, then when we actually DO get linked with promising young players who are available at a good price then our fans complain that the signings are not ambitious enough. It's tiresome.

 

[rawhide]

I'll remind you that we've signed the likes of Alli, Bale, Lennon and Dawson from the Championship who have come in and made an immediate impact to the first team. Rose and Walker too after blooding them through the youth system.

Or we could just go out and spend £200m on Bakayoko, Rudiger, Morata, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. Because, you know, ambition. Maybe we should have taken out a second loan on the stadium so that we could free up some cash to splash out on Fred, Dalot, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitaryan/Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc. I look at all those players that lot from down the road have signed in the last few years, if only we'd been more proactive....

People keep bringing up Liverpool as the shining example as to what spending money can do, forgetting that they were notoriously bad at getting the big money transfers right for years and years. Benteke, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli, Stewart Downing, Andy fucking Carroll...need I go on. They have lucked out in the last two seasons and made some very good signings, but they quite simply would not have had the budget to do what they have done if they hadn't a) Reached a Champions League final and b) Sold a £120m asset. Neither of those things applied to us, instead the thing that DOES apply to us is a £627m capex project to drain our resources. The idea that we could have made moves like Liverpool did in the transfer market without selling any big players is absolutely ridiculous. If we'd cashed in on Toby to free up funds for Jack Grealish like Poch wanted, then yes we'd have an extra body in CM but how "ambitious" would you be calling Levy then? Seems like a lifetime ago that people used to laugh at him for wasting big money on high profile flops like David Bentley and Darren Bent every year, and I have to say Poch's record in the transfer market even when given relatively decent budgets to spend has been pretty hit and miss throughout his career so it's not like overspending at this time when finances are tight is a low risk strategy. No, that doesn't forgive not signing anyone at all but a bit of perspective is needed.

Clearly, we do need to add to the squad. But we need to be realistic. What I find so annoying is when we see players like Robertson, Maddison and Brooks tearing things up in the PL and our fan base complaining that we didn't take a chance on them when they were young and available at a good price in the Championship, then when we actually DO get linked with promising young players who are available at a good price then our fans complain that the signings are not ambitious enough. It's tiresome.

Your well thought out points and common sense are not welcome here.

Take them elsewhere.

 

[JonnySpurs]

I'll remind you that we've signed the likes of Alli, Bale, Lennon and Dawson from the Championship who have come in and made an immediate impact to the first team. Rose and Walker too after blooding them through the youth system.

Or we could just go out and spend £200m on Bakayoko, Rudiger, Morata, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. Because, you know, ambition. Maybe we should have taken out a second loan on the stadium so that we could free up some cash to splash out on Fred, Dalot, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitaryan/Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc. I look at all those players that lot from down the road have signed in the last few years, if only we'd been more proactive....

People keep bringing up Liverpool as the shining example as to what spending money can do, forgetting that they were notoriously bad at getting the big money transfers right for years and years. Benteke, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli, Stewart Downing, Andy fucking Carroll...need I go on. They have lucked out in the last two seasons and made some very good signings, but they quite simply would not have had the budget to do what they have done if they hadn't a) Reached a Champions League final and b) Sold a £120m asset. Neither of those things applied to us, instead the thing that DOES apply to us is a £627m capex project to drain our resources. The idea that we could have made moves like Liverpool did in the transfer market without selling any big players is absolutely ridiculous. If we'd cashed in on Toby to free up funds for Jack Grealish like Poch wanted, then yes we'd have an extra body in CM but how "ambitious" would you be calling Levy then? Seems like a lifetime ago that people used to laugh at him for wasting big money on high profile flops like David Bentley and Darren Bent every year, and I have to say Poch's record in the transfer market even when given relatively decent budgets to spend has been pretty hit and miss throughout his career so it's not like overspending at this time when finances are tight is a low risk strategy. No, that doesn't forgive not signing anyone at all but a bit of perspective is needed.

Clearly, we do need to add to the squad. But we need to be realistic. What I find so annoying is when we see players like Robertson, Maddison and Brooks tearing things up in the PL and our fan base complaining that we didn't take a chance on them when they were young and available at a good price in the Championship, then when we actually DO get linked with promising young players who are available at a good price then our fans complain that the signings are not ambitious enough. It's tiresome.

Great post.

Let this be the end of this debate - otherwise let it be taken to a more appropriate thread.

 

[JonnySpurs]

In terms of ITK, JJ has posted 3 times in the De Jong thread, all of which are worth a read.

He indicates that we have made it clear of our interest in the player and we are willing to compete with any offers that come in for him. Even if we get beaten to his signature by PSG or Barca, at least this proves that we recognise the need for a quality CM and we're willing to fight for one.

As far as links to young, english players in the championship goes.....I will NEVER see that as a bad thing to be doing. Those players might seem like squad padding at first but who knows how quickly those players might develop and potentially become 1st choice. Alli and Dier are proof of this.

Bowen might not displace Son or Moura at the moment but there are always injuries and Bowen has shown very good finishing ability. Another wing forward like Son that can play up top is well worth having. Hope it happens.

 

[Matthew]

I’m sorry but this is just shocking and I’m not saying it because we lost today.

These are not the type of signings to propel us any further up the table.

Do people really think Poch is happy signings prospects from the championship? Is this really what the new stadium is for? The big game changer to allow us to move up a level?

Bowen and Aaron's. It’s like Spurs haven’t changed from the days of Davies and Etherington.

It’s just deflating. Yes they may work out, but it’s incredibly unlikely. These are the deals clubs like Bournemouth do, not a top 3 side like we are now.

It’s bad enough that a side who were behind us last season now look like winning the league because they filled the holes in their squad. What are we doing? Where’s the ambition Levy?

Our squad is down to the bare bones. Our CM situation and striker situations are literally critically bad.

I absolutely refuse to believe Poch is happy with this type of “backing”.

Even Bournemouth have spunked £20 million - more ambitious than us!

 

[Japhet]

In terms of ITK, JJ has posted 3 times in the De Jong thread, all of which are worth a read.

He indicates that we have made it clear of our interest in the player and we are willing to compete with any offers that come in for him. Even if we get beaten to his signature by PSG or Barca, at least this proves that we recognise the need for a quality CM and we're willing to fight for one.

As far as links to young, english players in the championship goes.....I will NEVER see that as a bad thing to be doing. Those players might seem like squad padding at first but who knows how quickly those players might develop and potentially become 1st choice. Alli and Dier are proof of this.

Bowen might not displace Son or Moura at the moment but there are always injuries and Bowen has shown very good finishing ability. Another wing forward like Son that can play up top is well worth having. Hope it happens.

The thing about deJong though is that JJ has already said that he turned us down. As long as Barca, PSG and whoever else has the slightest interest, which is guaranteed, why are we wasting time thinking we are in with a shot? Maybe I've seen too many examples of us reaching for the unreachable and then being told that we tried but couldn't do it. I'd be a lot more excited by a link to an achievable transfer rather than this type of pipe dream. All the time that we think we might get deal is time that our limited transfer budget is on hold for other, more attainable targets.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I'll remind you that we've signed the likes of Alli, Bale, Lennon and Dawson from the Championship who have come in and made an immediate impact to the first team. Rose and Walker too after blooding them through the youth system.

Or we could just go out and spend £200m on Bakayoko, Rudiger, Morata, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. Because, you know, ambition. Maybe we should have taken out a second loan on the stadium so that we could free up some cash to splash out on Fred, Dalot, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitaryan/Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc. I look at all those players that lot from down the road have signed in the last few years, if only we'd been more proactive....

People keep bringing up Liverpool as the shining example as to what spending money can do, forgetting that they were notoriously bad at getting the big money transfers right for years and years. Benteke, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli, Stewart Downing, Andy fucking Carroll...need I go on. They have lucked out in the last two seasons and made some very good signings, but they quite simply would not have had the budget to do what they have done if they hadn't a) Reached a Champions League final and b) Sold a £120m asset. Neither of those things applied to us, instead the thing that DOES apply to us is a £627m capex project to drain our resources. The idea that we could have made moves like Liverpool did in the transfer market without selling any big players is absolutely ridiculous. If we'd cashed in on Toby to free up funds for Jack Grealish like Poch wanted, then yes we'd have an extra body in CM but how "ambitious" would you be calling Levy then? Seems like a lifetime ago that people used to laugh at him for wasting big money on high profile flops like David Bentley and Darren Bent every year, and I have to say Poch's record in the transfer market even when given relatively decent budgets to spend has been pretty hit and miss throughout his career so it's not like overspending at this time when finances are tight is a low risk strategy. No, that doesn't forgive not signing anyone at all but a bit of perspective is needed.

Clearly, we do need to add to the squad. But we need to be realistic. What I find so annoying is when we see players like Robertson, Maddison and Brooks tearing things up in the PL and our fan base complaining that we didn't take a chance on them when they were young and available at a good price in the Championship, then when we actually DO get linked with promising young players who are available at a good price then our fans complain that the signings are not ambitious enough. It's tiresome.

Good post and on point. I would say tho that Liverpools scouting and acquisitions since getting in Klopp have been much better and I can understand why some people would be envious of their dealings under his reign. Personally I don't believe they have just been lucky at all.

Beyond that I think we should be looking in the lower leagues in England and abroad for young talents and certainly shouldn't be dismissive of those markets. If a players skill set is good enough to take us up a level then I don't care about his background or price tag. But in this case I can also understand why people are getting upset that the only players we are linked to is essentially a fourth right back and a sixth AM/Winger when we are desperate need of a CM and have been for two seasons.

In general there is a lot up in the air at the moment and we could be about to loose two world-class players in Eriksen and Toby. And I would understand why they would want to leave. It's only natural that fans are a little on edge especially when you have Poch talking about taking risks and changing our mentally amidst constant links to Utd and RM. This alongside a summer of zero players in, a injury epidemic and a consultantly delayed mega stadium makes for a pretty depressing outlook at times. It will pass tho and once we accept that getting top four is a good season I think people will perk up. This season was always going to be one of transition.

 

[brendanb50]

Fingers and toes crossed on a De Jong style deal coming off in the next window or two. We're not really at the table in terms of money yet to fully trump some of the competition but at least we're keeping our interest up and registered on him.

If we can match the money (maybe unlikely) then hopefully the likes of Sanchez show that we're a great option for that next step out of the Eredivisie. Either way i think it's hard to count us as favourites on some of Europes top talent for now but we're in with a shout on a few factors.

 

[Univarn]

Fingers and toes crossed on a De Jong style deal coming off in the next window or two. We're not really at the table in terms of money yet to fully trump some of the competition but at least we're keeping our interest up and registered on him.

If we can match the money (maybe unlikely) then hopefully the likes of Sanchez show that we're a great option for that next step out of the Eredivisie. Either way i think it's hard to count us as favourites on some of Europes top talent for now but we're in with a shout on a few factors.

I admire and aspire to your optimism.

 

[brendanb50]

I admire and aspire to your optimism.

As a Spurs fan you must have a bit of optimism in there as well.

Agree it's very optimistic on De Jong. But Sanchez proves that top young talent can be bought, we just need a few more factors in our favour and a few less (big spending) competitors in the mix. It can be done but looks unlikely in this case.

 

[Tucker]

Christ on a bike. I’m surprised poor old A&C hasn’t gone all Michael Douglas in falling down today. State of this thread.

 

[RobjDerby]

I'll remind you that we've signed the likes of Alli, Bale, Lennon and Dawson from the Championship who have come in and made an immediate impact to the first team. Rose and Walker too after blooding them through the youth system.

Or we could just go out and spend £200m on Bakayoko, Rudiger, Morata, Drinkwater and Zappacosta. Because, you know, ambition. Maybe we should have taken out a second loan on the stadium so that we could free up some cash to splash out on Fred, Dalot, Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof, Bailly, Mkhitaryan/Sanchez, Schneiderlin etc. I look at all those players that lot from down the road have signed in the last few years, if only we'd been more proactive....

People keep bringing up Liverpool as the shining example as to what spending money can do, forgetting that they were notoriously bad at getting the big money transfers right for years and years. Benteke, Lovren, Markovic, Balotelli, Stewart Downing, Andy fucking Carroll...need I go on. They have lucked out in the last two seasons and made some very good signings, but they quite simply would not have had the budget to do what they have done if they hadn't a) Reached a Champions League final and b) Sold a £120m asset. Neither of those things applied to us, instead the thing that DOES apply to us is a £627m capex project to drain our resources. The idea that we could have made moves like Liverpool did in the transfer market without selling any big players is absolutely ridiculous. If we'd cashed in on Toby to free up funds for Jack Grealish like Poch wanted, then yes we'd have an extra body in CM but how "ambitious" would you be calling Levy then? Seems like a lifetime ago that people used to laugh at him for wasting big money on high profile flops like David Bentley and Darren Bent every year, and I have to say Poch's record in the transfer market even when given relatively decent budgets to spend has been pretty hit and miss throughout his career so it's not like overspending at this time when finances are tight is a low risk strategy. No, that doesn't forgive not signing anyone at all but a bit of perspective is needed.

Clearly, we do need to add to the squad. But we need to be realistic. What I find so annoying is when we see players like Robertson, Maddison and Brooks tearing things up in the PL and our fan base complaining that we didn't take a chance on them when they were young and available at a good price in the Championship, then when we actually DO get linked with promising young players who are available at a good price then our fans complain that the signings are not ambitious enough. It's tiresome.

“Applause”

 

[James 23]

Interesting debate today on our forum, funny how a few injury's to key players re-ignites the fans fury against Levy that has been dormant until now !. The fact is that under ENIC we will almost certainly never win a Premiership or a Champions League, not being negative but we just simply cannot compete financially against our rivals, Poch has done an amazing job but he has taken us as far as he possibly can under his limitations. I have made peace with myself and have excepted that a top 4 position and the odd semi final here and there is as good as it gets, also I have excepted that us making Klinnsmaneqe signings are a thing of the distant past, however I do think there is good talent in the championship and we should defo look into making signings from there if we can afford them.
Lady's and gentlemen there is very little to no money to spend on new players, we could not even afford Grealish FFS, as ENIC have plunged us into massive debt with the new stadium (God forbid that Uncle Joe should put in his own money), however we still have a strong team that can compete for a good couple of years at least and we have a fighting chance of keeping Poch, always support the team 100% COYS.

 

[vegassd]

The thing about deJong though is that JJ has already said that he turned us down. As long as Barca, PSG and whoever else has the slightest interest, which is guaranteed, why are we wasting time thinking we are in with a shot? Maybe I've seen too many examples of us reaching for the unreachable and then being told that we tried but couldn't do it. I'd be a lot more excited by a link to an achievable transfer rather than this type of pipe dream. All the time that we think we might get deal is time that our limited transfer budget is on hold for other, more attainable targets.

From what JJ said we have told Ajax that we will match any bid they receive so let us know if anything happens. It's probably the work of a phone call and a faxed letter of intent or something. Not exactly a lot of time spent once the initial decision has been made.

I would imagine that part of it is to show long-term interest in the player so that if offers from the big boys don't materialise then we have been on his radar longer than another club that might try sneaking in. And perhaps by making that offer to match any bids it gives us permission to chat to the player directly. I would have no idea about the details of an arrangement like that but it might be another reason to keep an iron in the fire.

- - - -

Let's try and keep this thread on topic guys... there are about 5 other threads in Spurs chat that currently have branches of the never-ending ENIC debate so don't spam this thread with that topic please. It's boring as hell.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

And still its going on. This isn't a 'new' thing is it? You all know where the line is. You all know yet time and time again you take one post as the go ahead to fire into it yet again and ignore the repeated efforts to get it to sink in, only taking note when access is taken away.

The whole thing is staggering when you consider that if you were banging on about all this in the Bowen thread (for example) nobody would bat an eyelid. Does your couldn't give a fuckness really extend so far as to having to post it in here? No need to answer that.

The conclusion is that thicker than pigshit has somehow smuggled its way into being a star-sign, perhaps replacing Aquarius or Leo, who knows? But regardless, its obvious some of you feel that you need a bigger audience for your rabid stupidity and some of you should be congratulated for having the ability to draw consecutive breaths and walking upright without having to consult a manual.

But go on, if you really do think this stuff actually really truly pinky swear belongs in here, go ahead, don't let me stop you, go ahead, make another post, announce to the world that you really are dumber than snot.

Or (and I know this is an outrageous suggestion) we can stick to the ITK at hand and when things move along it can be taken to one of the players threads, for example, the player about whom the ITK is regarding, you can cry about Levy/ENIC/Transfer policy in there to your hearts content

*Prepares snot shovel

 

[Dillspur]

I wonder if De Jong isn't really interested in PSG and would consider us if Barcelona didn't pull the trigger

 

[SpartanSpur]

I wonder if De Jong isn't really interested in PSG and would consider us if Barcelona didn't pull the trigger

Do wonder if this ties in with Hercs comment about sloppy seconds (paraphrasing but that seemed to be the gist of it!).

People assumed it was more to do with Rabiot at the time. I guess we're hanging around on De Jong in case other teams rule themselves out. Still seems a hell of a long shot however.

 

[Dillspur]

Do wonder if this ties in with Hercs comment about sloppy seconds (paraphrasing but that seemed to be the gist of it!).

People assumed it was more to do with Rabiot at the time. I guess we're hanging around on De Jong in case other teams rule themselves out. Still seems a hell of a long shot however.

I'm sure we know what our chances are if Barcelona don't come in for him and we must like them or what's the point?

We have a good relationship with Ajax, players we have got from them have been excellent buys and have improved, he could do a lot worse than us for his progression.

 

[Tucker]

I like the sound of us going after Bowen and the lad from Norwich. That’s been our modus operandi for so long now, pick up youngsters and develop them and more often than not it’s worked out for us.

If we are after a young right back that doesn’t bode well for KWP though does it.

 

[SpartanSpur]

My biggest take from that Ali Z snippet is that the club have really succeeded in shutting down leaks.