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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 6th May 2014

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The Journalist

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Jul 17, 2011
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I totally ackowedge what the goat has said. To say there is unrest at the cub is an understatement. Many pleyers have questioned the clubs direction and a number of players have made noises about wanting out. Lloris wants out for a start and a number of players will follow
 

DaSpurs

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Jan 20, 2013
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Fair play, mate. Personally I hope that a new manager will be able to recognise that a simple change of system will see us watching the same Paulinho that pretty much bossed the Confederations Cup before completing his move to our club. There's a bloody good player in there, we just need someone with brains to bring it out of him. He wasn't voted 3rd best player at that tournament for nothing, only being beaten by Neymar & Iniesta, I believe? That's no mean feat.

He did indeed perform rather well in that tournament. But the problem is that he works well in Brazil's system, but not ours. It is much more economical to change one valued component to adapt to the majority rather than force the majority to adapt to a valuable minority. He works for Brazil because they play a far more spread out field, and feature far more flair and possession on the wings and as such he is devoid of the responsibility of personally moving the ball forward. So he can dish it out wide, and look to get into the box. But with us, we need better forward play through the middle. We're entirely too predictable and don't have dual-sided world class wingers and wingbacks to compensate by moving the ball forward into attacking areas.

So what I'm hoping, is for that new manager to recognize our problems moving the ball forward and moves for a player to play the No 8 who is superior at this vital trait to Paulinho, and can use the funds from such a sale to get at least another better fullback and winger each. Paulinho is not a bad player, but if we assess whole squad benefit, it's hard to see how keeping Paulinho outweighs the positives of what we could do with that income.
 

DaSpurs

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Jan 20, 2013
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I totally ackowedge what the goat has said. To say there is unrest at the cub is an understatement. Many pleyers have questioned the clubs direction and a number of players have made noises about wanting out. Lloris wants out for a start and a number of players will follow

Thanks for the info, but any idea if those players are at least willing to wait and assess the new managerial situation?
 

rawhide

I have issues...
Jan 28, 2011
16,723
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I totally ackowedge what the goat has said. To say there is unrest at the cub is an understatement. Many pleyers have questioned the clubs direction and a number of players have made noises about wanting out. Lloris wants out for a start and a number of players will follow
Cheers Journo.(y)

No surprises, tho I'd expect a collective breath to be held until Timbo gets El Bow.

Oh, also posted to RO, hope that's ok.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
This is what happens when you make rash decisions, specifically appointing a clown of a manager.

We need a manager within 2 weeks of the season ending. If it's De Boer then I think the majority of players will be prepared to stay.
 

Harry Barber

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2013
513
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Sad news from wpd and Journo. Though it's nothing FDB wouldn't be able to sort out. So not all doom and gloom imo.
 

rawhide

I have issues...
Jan 28, 2011
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He did indeed perform rather well in that tournament. But the problem is that he works well in Brazil's system, but not ours. It is much more economical to change one valued component to adapt to the majority rather than force the majority to adapt to a valuable minority. He works for Brazil because they play a far more spread out field, and feature far more flair and possession on the wings and as such he is devoid of the responsibility of personally moving the ball forward. So he can dish it out wide, and look to get into the box. But with us, we need better forward play through the middle. We're entirely too predictable and don't have dual-sided world class wingers and wingbacks to compensate by moving the ball forward into attacking areas.

So what I'm hoping, is for that new manager to recognize our problems moving the ball forward and moves for a player to play the No 8 who is superior at this vital trait to Paulinho, and can use the funds from such a sale to get at least another better fullback and winger each. Paulinho is not a bad player, but if we assess whole squad benefit, it's hard to see how keeping Paulinho outweighs the positives of what we could do with that income.
Wouldn't it be better to encourage the wingers and overlapping fullbacks to stay wide and cross the ball rather than cutting in and shooting/playing it fucking square again.

Edit:not a discussion for here. Forget it.
 

WiganSpur

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Aug 31, 2012
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Lloris is happy here atm and waiting for the new manager to come in.
If PSG came along i dont think he could turn it down thou thats just Onion. But the price would have to be very high for DL to sell i was told this. I was told he wont be leaving unless a big offer comes in. Can PSG really do that with FFP?

Alot of players will be linked with moves but untill the new manager comes only 1 or two may leave. Most waiting to see who comes in and then will speak to him before they decide if they want to go.

This makes perfect sense and is exactly what is going on IMO. In terms of keeping players here then De Boer would probably be the best option.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
70,419
He did indeed perform rather well in that tournament. But the problem is that he works well in Brazil's system, but not ours. It is much more economical to change one valued component to adapt to the majority rather than force the majority to adapt to a valuable minority. He works for Brazil because they play a far more spread out field, and feature far more flair and possession on the wings and as such he is devoid of the responsibility of personally moving the ball forward. So he can dish it out wide, and look to get into the box. But with us, we need better forward play through the middle. We're entirely too predictable and don't have dual-sided world class wingers and wingbacks to compensate by moving the ball forward into attacking areas.

So what I'm hoping, is for that new manager to recognize our problems moving the ball forward and moves for a player to play the No 8 who is superior at this vital trait to Paulinho, and can use the funds from such a sale to get at least another better fullback and winger each. Paulinho is not a bad player, but if we assess whole squad benefit, it's hard to see how keeping Paulinho outweighs the positives of what we could do with that income.

No, that "simple change of system" I mentioned in my post was one that most of our squad is already familiar with, due to either playing it for previous clubs, or playing it with our reserve/youth team (so I believe?). 4-3-3 is what most of them apparently know, or played before we signed them from their previous clubs. 4-3-3 is what is best suited to our current squad. 4-3-3 is precisely the formation that Paulinho was playing whilst 'most' on here were excited beyond belief, whilst watching him last summer, after it was announced he is to be our player. I literally see no reason whatsoever for there to be even the slightest concern about switching to 4-3-3.

Who's your choice for our next manager, DaSpurs? LVG? Prefers 4-3-3. FDB? Prefers 4-3-3. Pochettino? Prefers 4-2-3-1, which is simply a variation of 4-3-3, just with 2 DM's rather than the likely 1 DM that a 4-3-3 is likely to contain.

Hope you get my point, mate.
 

DaSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
11,816
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Wouldn't it be better to encourage the wingers and overlapping fullbacks to stay wide and cross the ball rather than cutting in and shooting/playing it fucking square again.

Edit:not a discussion for here. Forget it.

If you'd like to discuss it elsewhere, we certainly can. But all we bloody do is stay wide, we've no cut or bite through the middle, and especially not from deep. Our frequency of throughballs completed per match from the middle cannot exceed .2 per game.
 

carpediem991

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
8,836
20,308
What is happening to our great club :(

So much self destruction since the end of Redknapps era. Next manager decision has to be right or we are million miles away from CL footy
 

DaSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
11,816
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No, that "simple change of system" I mentioned in my post was one that most of our squad is already familiar with, due to either playing it for previous clubs, or playing it with our reserve/youth team (so I believe?). 4-3-3 is what most of them apparently know, or played before we signed them from their previous clubs. 4-3-3 is what is best suited to our current squad. 4-3-3 is precisely the formation that Paulinho was playing whilst 'most' on here were excited beyond belief, whilst watching him last summer, after it was announced he is to be our player. I literally see no reason whatsoever for there to be even the slightest concern about switching to 4-3-3.

Who's your choice for our next manager, DaSpurs? LVG? Prefers 4-3-3. FDB? Prefers 4-3-3. Pochettino? Prefers 3-2-3-1, which is simply a variation of 4-3-3, just with 2 DM's rather than the likely 1 DM that a 4-3-3 is likely to contain.

Hope you get my point, mate.

I think I do, and I think you've seen me advocate each of those managers as well as any formation that utilizes a three-man central midfield, and especially one that uses the classic roles of No 6, No 8, and No 10. On that we entirely agree. But these are formations, not systems of play. Just because we'd bring in a better coach with better tactics and a better understanding of the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 does not necessarily mean each player is compatible with that manager's system or the majority of players within any given squad and the dynamics they inevitably create.
 

Joeyboey

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,806
5,260
I totally ackowedge what the goat has said. To say there is unrest at the cub is an understatement. Many pleyers have questioned the clubs direction and a number of players have made noises about wanting out. Lloris wants out for a start and a number of players will follow

Sadly this comes as no surprise whatsoever.

We need a head strong manager to help refocus our entire club top to bottom.

More than ever before, this is a summer where the big decisions need to be absolutely spot on.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,016
34,214
All very predictable doom and gloom stuff coming out at the mo. An inevitable consequence of our chairman having an emotional 'episode' mid-season.

Another rebuild, another 18 months that will end in tears awaits. :sleep:
 

rawhide

I have issues...
Jan 28, 2011
16,723
31,154
Sadly this comes as no surprise whatsoever.

We need a head strong manager to help refocus our entire club top to bottom.

More than ever before, this is a summer where the big decisions need to be absolutely spot on.
Sounds like LvG from what I've read. Too slow already and the season hasn't finished and Timmy's still here...:(
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,016
34,214
Kerist, we only had a rebuild last summer. Danny is getting worse. He's escalating like a serial killer does. He needs more extreme and regular kills/firings to get off.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
I'd believe there are a lot of unhappy players. I suspect it started last summer when they were probably all promised we wouldn't sell Bale. It all went tits up then.

I suspect Levy is going to have to (but won't) act very quickly getting a manager in then meeting up with each player and their agents to let them know exactly what's happening.

We can't leave it until after the World Cup, start the season with half an unhappy squad because they haven't been sold. Only to be sold in the last week of the window leaving us severely under prepared.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
70,419
I think I do, and I think you've seen me advocate each of those managers as well as any formation that utilizes a three-man central midfield, and especially one that uses the classic roles of No 6, No 8, and No 10. On that we entirely agree. But these are formations, not systems of play. Just because we'd bring in a better coach with better tactics and a better understanding of the 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 does not necessarily mean each player is compatible with that manager's system or the majority of players within any given squad and the dynamics they inevitably create.

I see your point. In response, all I can say is this. FDB has openly stated that he only wants to go to a club that has layers that he feels he can improve. So, taking that into account, I have little reason to believe he would not only have no problem integrating the change of system you're concerned about. Not only that, he'd also improve the very good players we already have at our disposal.

Remember, none of these players were signed because they're poor players.
 
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