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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 6th January 2015

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DannySafer

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Sep 2, 2004
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But Bale scored and assisted in plenty of matches involving Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Liverpool? I don't get it.

I'm not doubting what Bale did for us I'm just saying that there came a time where teams realised his massive threat and started to double and sometimes treble up on him to a point where he had to play more centrally in some games.
 
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Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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I'm UOTE="kungfugrip, post: 4425781, member: 4285"]But Bale scored and assisted in plenty of matches involving Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man United, Liverpool? I don't get it.

I'm not doubting what Bale did for us I'm just saying that there came a time where teams realised his massive threat and started to double and sometimes treble up on him to a point where he had to play more centrally in some games.[/QUOTE]

You do remember how many goals/points he got for us in his last season?
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
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People often use this excuse to suggest we can cram people anywhere and can move for anyone of quality. The fact is no matter how many games are played, consistency has to be acquired and that comes first and foremost through compatibility. Buying players because we can shuffle hypothetically at some point is just not a good policy, and we brought Mitchell in to more specifically hone in our focusing on that compatibility. It is about the efficiency of the system of a whole, and bringing in a player who would undoubtedly demand first choice minutes at Kane's position will have negative repercussions.

That's not what I really meant. What I should have said is we need options off the bench. Currently we have none. We saw Saturday (and the whole season in fact) how it we needed to replace ineffective attackers. It's another reason why we need more centre backs and more central midfield. Are options in there are limited. If Kane's goals dry up we are pretty buggered for example. He might need dropping for a few games later in the season to refind form but currently there's no one to step in and replace him should that happen.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
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Good lord man I could not disagree with you more. I don't want Dembele's lethargy anywhere near the attacking positions, especially since he wasn't even productive in attacking positions when he once was healthy. There's a very good reason each progressive manager has moved him further and further back in their setups.

Also, while Kane may fare well as a No 10 individually, he's not creative enough at the position to help us find openings against sides that sit back. It reduces our movement, options, and channel maneuverability/manipulation when he's there in lieu of a more creative player. As is, Kane's proven himself of late plenty capable in the No 9 slot. No sense in spending the stupid money it would cost to get another No 9, and one who isn't even scoring as consistently as Kane is in the position.

i think, or pehaps rather hope, those taking the trouble to agree with you are jumping onbthe Dembele is lethargic bandwagon? He has been full of energy and progressive in our last two games. i agree he has an annoying lack of vision and passing range, but his other strengths compensate for that. He can beat a man and strike a ball, thats my logic. more than you can say for either Ade or Solly.

Beg to differ on Harry. Why do you say hes not creative? If we ha d players running past him a la Mason v United hes plenty creative. Have you seen him play behind Bera for the u21s or behind a big man?

Bentekes off a long break but Villa really are shite, and play like the away team even at home. i think hed be great for us.

How many goals we scored in the league this season?
 

CockOnBall

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Aug 21, 2013
1,187
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I'm not doubting what Bale did for us I'm just saying that there came a time where teams realised his massive threat and started to double and sometimes treble up on him to a point where he had to play more centrally in some games.


That's correct. He struggled after the Inter Milan game. I think that season was a poor one for him in terms of goal/assist output. I actually thought the same may happen to Kane after the Chelsea game. You can see he had more pressure on him when in possession vs Palace. So it was incredible he scored in a game out of nothing. I know this isn't for this thread but for all the talk of needing a striker, we have kind of stumbled upon an absolute brilliant one. 6 goals in 6 games when he has started as a striker. We do need a back up striker (Ings will do nicely) but time to take Kane very seriously. He's obviously hugely talented. Get the feeling some fans are waiting for the bubble to burst. It wont. He can hit the ball cleanly and hard with either foot, reads the game excellently and is improving all the time. A guy who works as hard as he does, will not go away (thankfully).

I think a more immediate priority is a DM who can pass forward without having to do a 360 first. Fair to say, Scheinderlin is no longer overpriced at 25m. Boat missed. Who else does Poch want in that position?
 

Kaboul'sForehead

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Jul 12, 2013
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If anything it's a good price. Arsenal paid £16 million for Callum Chambers. Is he £11 million better than Naughton at this minute in time? They paid £12 million for Debuchy. Man Utd paid £25 million for Shaw.

Fullbacks are pretty expensive in the market. Any clubs that get him for £5 million have done well.
Every position seems to be expensive in this bloody market.
 

CockOnBall

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Aug 21, 2013
1,187
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Every position seems to be expensive in this bloody market.

For established players, definitely. But West Ham got Aaron Cresswell and Hull got Andrew Robertson for less than 3m apiece. Both now considered among the best full backs in the league. There's good value outside the PL. IMO that's our market nowadays. With the capture of Poch and Mitchell, Levy clearly wants to mirror the Southampton model of signing young/mostly unestablished players and developing them. Aside from the Bale summer, that's pretty much been our blueprint in the last decade. Stadium expenses make it more essential.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
i think, or pehaps rather hope, those taking the trouble to agree with you are jumping onbthe Dembele is lethargic bandwagon? He has been full of energy and progressive in our last two games. i agree he has an annoying lack of vision and passing range, but his other strengths compensate for that. He can beat a man and strike a ball, thats my logic. more than you can say for either Ade or Solly.

Beg to differ on Harry. Why do you say hes not creative? If we ha d players running past him a la Mason v United hes plenty creative. Have you seen him play behind Bera for the u21s or behind a big man?

Bentekes off a long break but Villa really are shite, and play like the away team even at home. i think hed be great for us.

How many goals we scored in the league this season?
Strike a ball? I can't remember the last time he did that, let alone the last time he scored. I think he had a shot against Palace which just dribbled slowly along the ground. He's strong, can keep the ball well and is a fairly good dribbler. We need more than that.
 

Kaboul'sForehead

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2013
854
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For established players, definitely. But West Ham got Aaron Cresswell and Hull got Andrew Robertson for less than 3m apiece. Both now considered among the best full backs in the league. There's good value outside the PL. IMO that's our market nowadays. With the capture of Poch and Mitchell, Levy clearly wants to mirror the Southampton model of signing young/mostly unestablished players and developing them. Aside from the Bale summer, that's pretty much been our blueprint in the last decade. Stadium expenses make it more essential.
Definitely agree. Although I think "value" (and I mean that in the traditional meaning of the word, as in actually 'worth it') is also still hard to find in Ligue 1 (less so), Serie A (top tier), Bundesliga (top tier) and BBVA. Really agree with you in that developing players is the way we are going forward and I for one am in full support of this trajectory.

Determination rarely increases much. It's the core ingredient you need for world class players and can determine talent; but talent rarely determines determination. I guess its a bit 'chicken and the egg', but I feel that determination tends to come first.

I was in West Ham academy (don't shoot me) and although I was among the most talented there, I failed because I didn't concentrate. Those with sheer determination may not stand out in the school playground as a youngster, but when they hit a certain age (as in Bale and Kane for us) the talent aspect really clicks and then they are the full package.

I really feel this is the same with dribbling skills to be honest. Because you can dribble passed everyone doesn't make you that effective. Just look at Dembele, Sterling at times (the guy literally cannot finish and his passing is ok, but not great..compare to Hazard and you'll understand what I mean) and players like Ben Arfa or Taarabt who are fucking self-centered and lazy.

Determination. Whether it be determined to train that extra bit longer or drive into that tiny bit of space on the football pitch with the ball or without the ball to open space for your team mates. Determination is key. Start scouting for this as a key feature in a youngster and we will go far.
 
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225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
Every position seems to be expensive in this bloody market.

The other players were signed in the summer, which you'd expect means that Naughts is worth £8m.

Maybe trying to split Naughts and Walker is like Penn without Teller, Ant without Dec...
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,647
That's correct. He struggled after the Inter Milan game. I think that season was a poor one for him in terms of goal/assist output. I actually thought the same may happen to Kane after the Chelsea game. You can see he had more pressure on him when in possession vs Palace. So it was incredible he scored in a game out of nothing. I know this isn't for this thread but for all the talk of needing a striker, we have kind of stumbled upon an absolute brilliant one. 6 goals in 6 games when he has started as a striker. We do need a back up striker (Ings will do nicely) but time to take Kane very seriously. He's obviously hugely talented. Get the feeling some fans are waiting for the bubble to burst. It wont. He can hit the ball cleanly and hard with either foot, reads the game excellently and is improving all the time. A guy who works as hard as he does, will not go away (thankfully).

I think a more immediate priority is a DM who can pass forward without having to do a 360 first. Fair to say, Scheinderlin is no longer overpriced at 25m. Boat missed. Who else does Poch want in that position?
I'm hoping with Mitchell was already scouting a list of replacements for Schneiderlin should he
That's correct. He struggled after the Inter Milan game. I think that season was a poor one for him in terms of goal/assist output. I actually thought the same may happen to Kane after the Chelsea game. You can see he had more pressure on him when in possession vs Palace. So it was incredible he scored in a game out of nothing. I know this isn't for this thread but for all the talk of needing a striker, we have kind of stumbled upon an absolute brilliant one. 6 goals in 6 games when he has started as a striker. We do need a back up striker (Ings will do nicely) but time to take Kane very seriously. He's obviously hugely talented. Get the feeling some fans are waiting for the bubble to burst. It wont. He can hit the ball cleanly and hard with either foot, reads the game excellently and is improving all the time. A guy who works as hard as he does, will not go away (thankfully).

I think a more immediate priority is a DM who can pass forward without having to do a 360 first. Fair to say, Scheinderlin is no longer overpriced at 25m. Boat missed. Who else does Poch want in that position?
I'm hoping that Mitchell had already developed a substantial list of replacements should schneiderlin had left last summer. He's certainly looking like the real deal now but I can't accept he's the only player we can find to improve us with similar attributes, after all that's why we poached Mitchell in the first place?
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
The other players were signed in the summer, which you'd expect means that Naughts is worth £8m.

Maybe trying to split Naughts and Walker is like Penn without Teller, Ant without Dec...

I agree. I think we should be looking towards that. Didn't we sign him for £3 million.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
I agree. I think we should be looking towards that. Didn't we sign him for £3 million.

around £5m, which was the bid made by several clubs at the time (Everton included). Kyle was the cheaper half of the double-deal, at around £3.4m.

It's possible that Sheffield Utd included sell on %s though.
 
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