ITK Discussion The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 3rd January

[Hercules]

Janssen, Llorente, Sissoko, Aurier, Moura; would be my thoughts as to who Poch wasn’t convinced by buying.

Janssen was his recommendation!!!

 

[Tyler24durden]

Cheers Hercules, now that is interesting and potentially worrying that Poch thought he looked good.
Perhaps Poch needs to trust his scouts more, especially if they told him Janssen wasn’t good enough lol.

 

[King of Otters]

We will pay for the right players the problem is finding players Poch wants that will come to us. Poch obviously only wants top end players now, and unfortunately they are converted by Europe's elite. He is adamant he doesn't want players just to fill a gap because we can't move them on when better becomes available. If we buy players he isn't convinced on we then get stick for not backing the manager. It will be his choice if we get no one, because the ones he wants are not obtainable. It is very AVB-esque in a way, but at least the club are backing him in the fact we won't go for other people's options instead.

But he isn't the one who decides if a player is or is not obtainable, so it's not entirely his choice if we end up with no-one.

 

[U.S. Spurs Fan]

Trix's info sounds reasonable from Poch - he knows we're at a level where bringing in second rate or average names is pointless because our squad is well above average right now. And most of us have said we need to find prospects before they blow up, but that's easier said than done when average prospects like Grealish are being touted at 40 mill.

Bottom line, it seems money is an issue. Whether it's agent fees or salaries, something is holding us back from getting the names Poch wants. I'm sure more money would sway some players toward us.

In this context, the quotes today from Poch are pretty clear and concerning. If he wants top players brought in and can't get them here, there are certainly two places out there that can and will get him the names he wants. Him speaking out today in media has to be at least a little bit of him putting pressure on Levy.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

That's cool - but then we also can't blame him when he goes to a club like United that will actually get him the players he wants.

To be honest, im a little baffled by how we move forward. We can't by the players Poch wants because we are not Madrid et al and we won't by other options because Poch doesn't want them. It makes sense not to buy squad fillers, but I also don't believe there aren't any players out there that could improve us for a reasonable value and happy to come. De Jong and Pulisic are worthy targets, but they can't be the be all and end all. Essentially, we are going to keep waiting for the last days of the window once all the big boys have done thier busines hoping to pick up whoever is left (from Poch's list). Only thing is, these players are young, in no rush to move and happy to wait (as will their agents for a bigger pay check.)

 

[King of Otters]

To be honest, im a little baffled by how we move forward. We can't by the players Poch wants because we are not Madrid et al and we won't by other options because Poch doesn't want them. It makes sense not to buy squad fillers, but I also don't believe there aren't any players out there that could improve us for a reasonable value and happy to come. De Jong and Pulisic are worthy targets, but they can't be the be all and end all. Essentially, we are going to keep waiting for the last days of the window once all the big boys have done thier busines hoping to pick up whoever is left (from Poch's list). Only thing is, these players are young, in no rush to move and happy to wait (as will their agents will for a bigger pay check.)

As we know, pretty much the only thing clubs, agents and players care about is money. Being in the Europe League in recent years hasn't stopped Utd and Chelsea, and even Arsenal with PEA, signing elite players, just as being in the CL hasn't helped us to sign players of that calibre.

Sooner or later Levy is going to have to start paying the going rate for elite players and their agents. He simply has to, because not signing any players is not really a sustainable model for footballing success.

 

[McArchibald]

Jansen had a 2-3 year spell where he improved immensely - propelling him from being an anonymous championship player into the Holland international squad . Not unlike the early career of Ruud van Nistelrooy.
I guess the fact there was a lot of apparent potential combined with his relatively small pricetag persuaded us to take a punt on him. Sadly he seems to have hit his ceiling...

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

But he isn't the one who decides if a player is or is not obtainable, so it's not entirely his choice if we end up with no-one.

Certainly some times his targets wont be obtainable because the players just din't want to come to Spurs. But I am exceedingly confident that often his targets aren't obtainable because the Club aren't willing to match his valuation or other teams wages offers.

So I would say it's a definite bit of 'spin' to say that it is Pochs choice to sign no one. It may be his choice to not sign certain players offered, but it is not his choice to not sign those players he has requested!

 

[Indisguise]

Rockin’ All over the world?

Or

Down, down, deeper and down?

I think Poch would like to hear "Whatever you want".

 

[U.S. Spurs Fan]

To be honest, im a little baffled by how we move forward. We can't by the players Poch wants because we are not Madrid et al and we won't by other options because Poch doesn't want them. It makes sense not to buy squad fillers, but I also don't believe there aren't any players out there that could improve us for a reasonable value and happy to come. De Jong and Pulisic are worthy targets, but they can't be the be all and end all. Essentially, we are going to keep waiting for the last days of the window once all the big boys have done thier busines hoping to pick up whoever is left (from Poch's list). Only thing is, these players are young, in no rush to move and happy to wait (as will their agents will for a bigger pay check.)

This is why I worry about JJ's post on December 26th (I think) where he said just sit back, "buckle up" and enjoy the journey/team as it is because "you'll kill yourself with worry about what might happen". It's hard not to worry because that had an element of "it might all be over soon". Hope I am wrong obviously.

 

[jurgen]

As we know, pretty much the only thing clubs, agents and players care about is money. Being in the Europe League in recent years hasn't stopped Utd and Chelsea, and even Arsenal with PEA, signing elite players, just as being in the CL hasn't helped us to sign players of that calibre.

Sooner or later Levy is going to have to start paying the going rate for elite players and their agents. He simply has to, because not signing any players is not really a sustainable model for footballing success.

I seriously doubt we can find another manager in world football who can give the added value to our club that Poch has, so we also can't assume that our current level is sustainable if he ever gets tempted away by a club that can offer him greater resources.

 

[King of Otters]

Certainly some times his targets wont be obtainable because the players just din't want to come to Spurs. But I am exceedingly confident that often his targets aren't obtainable because the Club aren't willing to match his valuation or other teams wages offers.

So I would say it's a definite bit of 'spin' to say that it is Pochs choice to sign no one. It may be his choice to not sign certain players offered, but it is not his choice to not sign those players he has requested!

It's 100% spin, and it's really grating to see it go unchecked so frequently.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I also think its disingenuous to say "Player X wouldn't come to Spurs."

I think it is more correct to say: "Player X wouldn't come to Spurs at the wages/bonus/agent fees offered by Spurs."

Everyone has a price. There are good and bad reasons for a Club not to pay that price - but we can bring quality players in, if we are willing to pay the price. Thus far, we are not willing.

 

[Indisguise]

I can't see how letting go of two or three of our best players over the next year (which seems very likely) and staying stagnant in the transfer market is going to keep hold of Pochettino when the likes of United are banging on the door.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

I seriously doubt we can find another manager in world football who can give the added value to our club that Poch has, so we also can't assume that our current level is sustainable if he ever gets tempted away by a club that can offer him greater resources.

Losing Poch would be one of the biggest disasters I would have experienced in my 37 years of supporting Tottenham. He’s irreplaceable at the moment. More than any other manager, he deserves to be backed, even if it means some restructuring of the business model. He’s loyal and honourable but also ambitious; at some point in the next 6-8 months, we need to show serious intent by acquiring one or two of his players. He’s saved us countless millions by developing raw talent into very good/outstanding players, and earned the club big money by consistently qualifying for the Champions League.

If ever there was such a thing as a sensible gamble, it would be to back this man

 

[dirtyh]

Losing Poch would be one of the biggest disasters I would have experienced in my 37 years of supporting Tottenham. He’s irreplaceable at the moment. More than any other manager, he deserves to be backed, even if it means some restructuring of the business model. He’s loyal and honourable but also ambitious; at some point in the next 6-8 months, we need to show serious intent by acquiring one or two of his players. He’s saved us countless millions by developing raw talent into very good/outstanding players, and earned the club big money by consistently qualifying for the Champions League.

If ever there was such a thing as a sensible gamble, it would be to back this man

if there's ever a post doc that needs to be stapled to levy's forehead it's this........

 

[Johnny J]

Is our squad really so good that we can't improve it for two windows in a row?

 

[Col_M]

We will pay for the right players the problem is finding players Poch wants that will come to us. Poch obviously only wants top end players now, and unfortunately they are converted by Europe's elite. He is adamant he doesn't want players just to fill a gap because we can't move them on when better becomes available. If we buy players he isn't convinced on we then get stick for not backing the manager. It will be his choice if we get no one, because the ones he wants are not obtainable. It is very AVB-esque in a way, but at least the club are backing him in the fact we won't go for other people's options instead.

Do you think that opens the avenue for Loans then?

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Is our squad really so good that we can't improve it for two windows in a row?

January windows are generally for bargains - like Lucas, players who are good but out of favor in their current club, or out of contract in the summer - or teams that are desperate. Teams fighting to avoid relegation are desperate. Teams at the top of the table are rarely desperate.

So, I don't think this window says anything about where we are in terms of need to improve. We have needs, but overpaying to address those needs is not really a viable option. If we bought a world-class CM, for example, we are still outsiders in the title race. Maybe we catch a lucky break, maybe we don't. But, its a big spend, and it might leave us exactly where we are right now. I am not going to lose any sleep over a failure to buy this month.

Now, next summer is a different story. We have some aging players that will need to be phased out over time, and just general freshening up at some spots. We had that same need last summer, and, if we don't make in the summer of 2019 - we are officially in trouble...

 

[Indisguise]

Do you think that opens the avenue for Loans then?

If Poch only wants top end players now, and we're not prepared to pay for them, the only avenue it's going to open is an escape route for Poch to United. Not being able to sign the players he wants will teach him that he'll need to manage elsewhere in order to get them.

 

[Jaddas]

I'm finding this all a bit confusing (might be because I'm a bit thick!).

So Poch only wants top end players but they don't want to come to us or we can't afford total package, plus he doesn't want squad fillers which I agree. Yet, his best work has been done with players with potential not "top end", many of whom have made almost instant impacts e.g. Dier, Dele, Son (admittedly dodgy 2nd half of first season after injury), Sanchez plus Eriksen & Rose (already at club).

I can't believe for one second that he only wants Rabiot, N'Dombele, De Jong, Pulisic etc. Surely the scouts should know players in the tier slightly below this one, which are obtainable and who he would like, and accept e.g. Sanchez but may have wanted De Ligt. Players like Son, Dele, Sanchez etc had less hype about them then N'Dombele, De Jong etc but have grown into players some of the elite would like. I classify these as the slightly lower tier and we need to be looking in this pool. These players would probably find us more attractive than the top end so easier for the bald one to do a deal.

For example, instead of N'Dombele, why not see if we can get Diawara from Napoli or Barella etc? There are other examples but don't want to turn this into a wish list or derail the thread.

Something just doesn't add up as we apparently have money but don't know who to spend it on? Maybe Poch is toeing the party line a bit by saying difficult to improve. Seems like we are on the road to nowhere.