The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 3rd August 2019

[nikojev]

Not the first time JJ has said that the business is full of greedy people with no business ethics and that the market is crazy. But shouldn't we've learned this by now?

Unfortunately we don't make the rules, and we're not in a position to just say "Fuck it, we don't agree with this so we ain't playing the game!" We can't operate in a vacuum. We need players.

It seemed like Liverpool payed crazy money for vvd, but as it turns out the they were ahead of the market and got a reasonable deal.

If there was one time were we should've just bitten the bullet, then it was this window. I appreciate that it's a lot of money and that we as fans don't know all the ins and outs, but from the outside it seems like we're in a critical state in more ways than one and that were not willing to accept the reality of the situation. Instead we're looking for things to blame. Either it's other clubs or agents, players not wanting to join, money or just disagreement within the club (poch only wants this, poch doesn't want to do that, poch saying "I have no say in transfers" etc) and it's seemingly been going on for years. It's a shambles, really.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Give it a fucking rest.

Why should he give it a rest? Are you giving it a rest? Everybody is entitled to be as negative as they like, equally everybody is entitled to be as positive as they like.

 

[WiganSpur]

I see where JJ is coming from with the £100m comment.

If we add GLC and Sessegnon this week to Ndombele and Clarke, we are probably ending the window with a net spend of over £100m. That is huge for us considering recent history. I think we'd all have taken that at the start of the window.

Can the club afford to gamble on GLC and Bruno with the risk Eriksen could see his last year out? I think we'd all like to see the club be bold but it's a big ask.

I said at the start of the window replacing Eriksen with Ndombele and Lo Celso was about as good as we hope for, and right now I'd take that. Gutting after how things were developing this summer but sometimes it's good to take a step back. If JJ says they are possible then there's still hope yet.

The caveat is if we sell Eriksen to Utd (for an extra £10-20m). If that happens then Levy needs to pull something big out of the bag because #&$% strengthening Utd.

I think a reasonable aim at this stage is to get one of BF or GLC regardless of the Eriksen situation. Hope to sell CE before our deadline then get the other target if successful. With Eriksen out we'd be talking around £100m net factoring in say a Wanyama outgoing too. Significant but far from crazy given the boost to the club's commercial appeal of late.

 

[Dazzazzad]

Deja vu Same Old

Huge ITK vibe change

Dembele -> NDombele
Eriksen -> Lo Celso (and we might not even get him!)

Swapping like for like is hardly moving forwards, being brave, starting the new project.

This is just not good enough for what we’ve become. Even worse when this Summer had so much potential. And on the back of a year of zero transfers.

Levy is going to have to go some just to cover the Eriksen sale.
And then completely over board to actually make us better than the start of last season

:-/

No disrespect intended but I've never really understood the like for like argument. No two players are alike. If LC and ND perform better individually and within the team then we'll be better. If they flop then we'll be worse off - although Dembele was regularly injured and getting quite old so for me as long as ND is decent that's a positive.

If the worry is wanting more players in case we have another injury ravaged season, that's fair but if we also bring in Sess plus a pretty exciting group of younger players a year older (Skipp, KWP, Parrot, Tangana) a lot of those deeper squad depth issues should be improved.

EDIT - Just realized this is the ITK thread so to lean back on topic, thanks to Ali for the update. I'm not sold on the player, just based on a very limited eye test, but excited about his potential and what he could become under Poch.

 

[Yiddo100]

Why should he give it a rest? Are you giving it a rest? Everybody is entitled to be as negative as they like, equally everybody is entitled to be as positive as they like.

Seems as if your not allowed to be positive in here

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Why should he give it a rest? Are you giving it a rest? Everybody is entitled to be as negative as they like, equally everybody is entitled to be as positive as they like.

Yeah, I'm barely posting, can only say something once for it to hold the same positive or negative.

 

[KingKay]

Because Poch has worked miracles with a fucking threadbare squad, which is why he deserves to be backed.

Poch has worked miracles certainly, but its been steady progress for the last 18 years and there’s only been one constant during that time period. I agree we should back Poch as much as we can but I also trust Levy’s judgement. I’m just pretty fed up of the abuse we give our own chairman to be honest and I sometimes wonder whether we deserve him.

Bound to be unpopular with the doom mongers and not a conversation for this thread really.

 

[Indisguise]

Didn't we read that the fee was agreed to quite some time ago and it has been the terms that have changed? If i recall correctly, Betis wanted more money up front and that is what keeps on changing. Hence, Gards tweet makes perfect sense but the deal hasn't occurred due to payment terms not being agreed to. That sounds like that is something that isn't an insurmountable issue unless the new terms create some type of cashflow issue for us. If true, my read is that GLC will likely happen as long as parties aren't too intransigent.

The Club has had a tight rein on ITK for quite some time now. We get told what they want us to hear so take everything with a mountain of salt.

 

[Schitzophonic]

Gards on Eriksen to Utd is positive. It means we will DEFINITELY be getting at least one of GLC and BF in, considering we would be selling to United and we wouldn't make ourselves weaker like that without a replacement - if we did, fuck football.

But in the grand scheme of things, it still means we haven't improved, we've stayed the same.

Dimitar Berbatov says hi. I guess Frazier Campbell does count as a “replacement,” though.

 

[jurgen]

Not the first time JJ has said that the business is full of greedy people with no business ethics and that the market is crazy. But shouldn't we've learned this by now?

Unfortunately we don't make the rules, and we're not in a position to just say "Fuck it, we don't agree with this so we ain't playing the game!" We can't operate in a vacuum. We need players.

It seemed like Liverpool payed crazy money for vvd, but as it turns out the they were ahead of the market and got a reasonable deal.

If there was one time were we should've just bitten the bullet, then it was this window. I appreciate that it's a lot of money and that we as fans don't know all the ins and outs, but from the outside it seems like we're in a critical state in more ways than one and that were not willing to accept the reality of the situation. Instead we're looking for things to blame. Either it's other clubs or agents, players not wanting to join, money or just disagreement within the club (poch only wants this, poch doesn't want to do that, poch saying "I have no say in transfers" etc) and it's seemingly been going on for years. It's a shambles, really.

Market is crazy and our club is posting crazy profits and announcing crazy new sponsorship deals miles ahead of other clubs, yet...

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Seems as if your not allowed to be positive in here

Everyone is just highly strung and emotional, everyone (myself included) has a different take on things, some negative, some positive, which then is the basis on which they infer any news that comes in. The end result... well you're pretty new here but welcome to your first SC Transfer Window Meltdown. It's quite cathartic really.

 

[jurgen]

Seems as if your not allowed to be positive in here

No, everyone was positive, very much so, when early ITK and then the Ndombele signing transpired. Following that, the situation including the ITK has become much less encouraging.

 

[KingKay]

Everyone is just highly strung and emotional, everyone (myself included) has a different take on things, some negative, some positive, which then is the basis on which they infer any news that comes in. The end result... well you're pretty new here but welcome to your first SC Transfer Window Meltdown. It's quite cathartic really.

It bloody well isn’t

 

[Joshua]

Not accepting the £100mil comment or the car analogy sorry. We’ve signed ONE first team player in 18 months. It won’t bankrupt the club to adequately improve the playing squad. We need to stop this rhetoric that we’re some cash strapped club scraping around for pennies to do these deals. We have access to revenue streams and sponsorship deals that eclipse most clubs in Europe let alone the Prem. Not to mention a billionaire owner.

As for paying 20k for a car now or waiting to see if I could get it for 15k later. If I really, really wanted that car and knew that car would improve my life now and in the foreseeable future I would not risk not getting it at all by waiting for a potential price drop. These excuses are getting a bit tiresome now. It’s plain to see what we need to do to improve and the club are either incapable or unwilling to do it. Sick to the back teeth of it.

 

[hatch]

JJ has said “he is the deciding factor on all transfers” (poch)

 

[Indisguise]

JJ has said “he is the deciding factor on all transfers” (poch)

He may well be but I doubt he gets to decide what we're willing to pay for any given player.

 

[freeeki]

Ballsing up last summer’s window was amateurish as hell, and led to a terrible season which was very much masked by an incredible UCL run.

Ballsing up this window, with €50M+ of UCL prize money, a record profit in world football and a bumper new shirt sponsorship deal all in the bag would be utterly unforgivable.

Let’s hope Levy’s got some tricks up his sleeve. Ndombele alone does not fill the gaping holes in our squad, nor should he be expected to.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I do think the significance of the Ndombele signing is being massively downplayed here. For me he does improve us considerably. It was a pretty awesome signing. If anything the vastly improved Sissoko was our Dembele replacement already, so Ndombele really does add to the squad. 'Dembele replacement' doesn't quite sit right for me.

Sessegnon brings extra to the squad too, no doubt about it. Providing Rose stays for another year.

Add another big talent like Lo Celso or Bruno and that brings some freshness and new life into the squad for sure. Both and we would really be in business.

Totally get the frustration though, does feel like the perfect timing to really push the boat out, even if it meant tightening our belts for a year or two after (see Liverpool).

 

[philll]

Ballsing up last summer’s window was amateurish as hell, and led to a terrible season which was very much masked by an incredible UCL run.

Ballsing up this window, with €50M+ of UCL prize money, a record profit in world football and a bumper new shirt sponsorship deal all in the bag would be utterly unforgivable.

Let’s hope Levy’s got some tricks up his sleeve. Ndombele alone does not fill the gaping holes in our squad, nor should he be expected to.

And going into the first full season in the spangly new stadium as well. It was (and still is) a perfect opportunity to take a step up.

We were incredibly unlucky with injuries last year, and Dele's already tweaked his hamstring before the season has even begun.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Jesus, I watched a couple of episodes of MadMen with the family and everything has almost gone completely to shit