The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 3rd August 2014

[Spursidol]

Can I just ask - is this the same Mason that I saw getting torn a new one in a Doncaster shirt by championship journeymen a year or two ago? And people are putting him in the team ahead of our riches of Brazil, France, Belgium and Algerian internationals?

He played very few games for Doncaster due to injury. However on the Doncater fans forums at the time, they were usually delighted when he did play. BTW, playing well or badly in the championship has little bearing on playing in the PL - Livermore flopped badly in the championship but looked good at Spurs (but we bought beter players) before looking even better at mid PL side Hull.

Preety much everyone has looked approvingly at Mason in pre-season. Provided his injury days are behind him, I think opposotion fans are going to be shocked by Mason's top class performances for Spurs, as they will not have heard much about him.

 

[spurs9]

Can I just ask - is this the same Mason that I saw getting torn a new one in a Doncaster shirt by championship journeymen a year or two ago? And people are putting him in the team ahead of our riches of Brazil, France, Belgium and Algerian internationals?

No, just an Algerian international. Also, Mason might just not be suited to the style of play Doncaster play and/or the Championship. Paulinho didn't do well in Poland, yet went onto be voted 3rd best player in the confeds cup.

 

[Spursidol]

I don't think we're talking quantum differences here in terms of passing and vision.

Mason has looked bright in pre season but I still wouldn't be surprised if he's loaned out again.

Chalk and cheese mate. Mason if he keeps fit could be the revelation of the season for Spurs. Passing, vision, steel and a good shot. Kids potentially got it all .

 

[Ledleys Knee]

He played very few games for Doncaster due to injury. However on the Doncater fans forums at the time, they were usually delighted when he did play. BTW, playing well or badly in the championship has little bearing on playing in the PL - Livermore flopped badly in the championship but looked good at Spurs (but we bought beter players) before looking even better at mid PL side Hull.

Preety much everyone has looked approvingly at Mason in pre-season. Provided his injury days are behind him, I think opposotion fans are going to be shocked by Mason's top class performances for Spurs, as they will not have heard much about him.

I'm happy for that to be the case.

But the absolutely worst thing to judge a player on is pre-season friendlies. Over the years I've seen some appalling players really standout in these pointless fitness exercises. Competitive matches in the championship is a far better gauge, at least until we have something else to go by (e.g. an EPL loan or UEFA games).

 

[Mr Pink]

Chalk and cheese mate. Mason if he keeps fit could be the revelation of the season for Spurs. Passing, vision, steel and a good shot. Kids potentially got it all .

Appreciate they're different skill sets and Mason looked good, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be in Pochettino's thoughts for regular first team action does it?

If he is then that's great, but I wouldn't be confident of it happening.

And prior to pre season kicking off, how many would be pushing a very strong case for this kid to be in and around the first team? Maybe yourself and a select few others.

Anyhow, time will tell.

 

[Spursidol]

I'm happy for that to be the case.

But the absolutely worst thing to judge a player on is pre-season friendlies.

).

Absolutely true.

Mason's not really played a huge number of games since he was about 19 when he looked the best of the bunch in Spurs best youth team in decades and in his initial loans. So I've been delighted to see Poch include hom in pre-season - and for Mason to look the part alongside the extablished first team players in the 3 North American pre-season games - with the Capoue/Mason duo looking as if they had played together for years, rather than for days.

Needs more first team games, and I'm hoping Ppoch brings him in initialy by starting him in EL games before the bench for PL games, to see how he adapts, But he's technically a very good player, so has the attributes to succeed

 

[Spursidol]

Appreciate they're different skill sets and Mason looked good, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be in Pochettino's thoughts for regular first team action does it?

If he is then that's great, but I wouldn't be confident of it happening.

And prior to pre season kicking off, how many would be pushing a very strong case for this kid to be in and around the first team? Maybe yourself and a select few others.

Anyhow, time will tell.

Time will tell as you say. I think only those who followed him as a yougster knew how giid he was then, hoped he might get over his injury issues and were delighted to see him beat the 'last chancxe saloon' to make an impression on this pre-season. Most will never jave heard of him - but he's technically one of the best the youth team has produced in decades - although tbf we are now starting to produce one or two who may be as good now in the youth system

 

[chinaman]

Although he played quite many matches, Bentaleb seemed to have been reined in by Dim resulting in not really showing that much attacking abilities. Also in the WC group matches, being underdogs, Algeria adopted a deep defense method and thus Nabil was once again denied any chance of displaying his attacking capabilities.

However, according to people like Ray Lo and Spursidol, he was doing very well in an attacking midfield role for the U-21s and had chalked up a few goals and assists. So there is still hope that Poch can develop that part of his play in the coming season.

Mason no doubt has wowed everyone with his passing while on tour, albeit it was only against 2nd rate opposition. Just on that basis, I would at this moment rank Mason higher than Bentaleb not that I doubt the latter's ability, but that the former has had the chance to show more. However if Mason cannot reproduce the same form if given early opportunities in the EPL, I'll be greatly disappointed if Bentaleb is not given equal chances to show what he can do.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Can I just ask - is this the same Mason that I saw getting torn a new one in a Doncaster shirt by championship journeymen a year or two ago? And people are putting him in the team ahead of our riches of Brazil, France, Belgium and Algerian internationals?

Completely agree and one of my main gripes with pre season friendlies. I've liked how mason has played but think it's ridiculous for him to be suddenly thought of as in first team squad and others happily sold. I'm not slagging him off cos do think he's talented but the opposition let's be honest has been average at best. I think Dembele and Paulinho have suffered in terms of fan judgement due to being successful in getting to go to World Cup. I'm completely convinced both would've had good MLS pre season games and probs scored too. I've been impressed with improvements in numerous players even at this early stage, they'd be same.

On Mason though, at his age I think another loan might be a waste of time. I'd be happy to keep him as an emergency 6th choice, getting proper coaching with Pochettino and also with his injury record a much better situation training wise to hopefully stop recaccurrances. With our injury record too he'd probs get on bench or even play at some point.

 

[Spursidol]

Although he played quite many matches, Bentaleb seemed to have been reined in by Dim resulting in not really showing that much attacking abilities. Also in the WC group matches, being underdogs, Algeria adopted a deep defense method and thus Nabil was once again denied any chance of displaying his attacking capabilities.

However, according to people like Ray Lo and Spursidol, he was doing very well in an attacking midfield role for the U-21s and had chalked up a few goals and assists. So there is still hope that Poch can develop that part of his play in the coming season.

Mason no doubt has wowed everyone with his passing while on tour, albeit it was only against 2nd rate opposition. Just on that basis, I would at this moment rank Mason higher than Bentaleb not that I doubt the latter's ability, but that the former has had the chance to show more. However if Mason cannot reproduce the same form if given early opportunities in the EPL, I'll be greatly disappointed if Bentaleb is not given equal chances to show what he can do.

I like both Mason and Bentaleb.

Mason was originally a very good no 10, but has played CM for about 2-3 years and has a much better range of passing and vision (allied with steel and a good shot) than Bentaleb. But Nabil at 19 is about 3 years younger than Ryan and could easily develop his pasing and vision - and he's a very good prospect as we saw last season.

But as I've said Mason has pretty much it all in terms of passing/steel/vision/steel so Poch wil love the raw attributes - but Nabil has more experience right now.

As neither of them will play a full season at Spurs I'd love both of them to play as much of half a season each as possible. I think both poch and Spurs fans would love to see the results.

 

[Spursidol]

Completely agree and one of my main gripes with pre season friendlies. I've liked how mason has played but think it's ridiculous for him to be suddenly thought of as in first team squad and others happily sold. I'm not slagging him off cos do think he's talented but the opposition let's be honest has been average at best. I think Dembele and Paulinho have suffered in terms of fan judgement due to being successful in getting to go to World Cup. I'm completely convinced both would've had good MLS pre season games and probs scored too. I've been impressed with improvements in numerous players even at this early stage, they'd be same.

On Mason though, at his age I think another loan might be a waste of time. I'd be happy to keep him as an emergency 6th choice, getting proper coaching with Pochettino and also with his injury record a much better situation training wise to hopefully stop recaccurrances. With our injury record too he'd probs get on bench or even play at some point.

IMO Mason (and Bentaleb) fit Poch's type of CM and system better than Paulhino and Dembele - I'm not saying they are better players - as both have a combination of passing and steel (POch's key criteria - look at Morgan) that Paulhino and Dembele and Sandro do not but clearlt those two are far moree experienced/established players than Mason and Bentaleb.

.

 

[St José Dominguez]

IMO Mason (and Bentaleb) fit Poch's type of CM and system better than Paulhino and Dembele - I'm not saying they are better players - as both have a combination of passing and steel (POch's key criteria - look at Morgan) that Paulhino and Dembele and Sandro do not but clearlt those two are far moree experienced/established players than Mason and Bentaleb.

.

I've yet to see a single of minute of Dembele and Paulinho play for Pochettino so impossible to judge.

I love Bentaleb, think he's a fantastic talent and think if don't get Schneiderlin he has a serious chance of being a regular starter.
Mason, as said I'd be happy to be part of squad and maybe he'll fight his way up pecking order but no way would I assume that to the extent of letting him take place of experienced, international players.

 

[Matrix]

Definitely should go for Kono or Depay. Rodriguez as good as he maybe is a fitness risk at the moment. He probably won't be fully fit till Nov at the earliest. Depay and Kono would be there from the off. Whether they would be at the level Rodriguez was before the injury is another thing.

 

[Spursidol]

I've yet to see a single of minute of Dembele and Paulinho play for Pochettino so impossible to judge.

I love Bentaleb, think he's a fantastic talent and think if don't get Schneiderlin he has a serious chance of being a regular starter.
Mason, as said I'd be happy to be part of squad and maybe he'll fight his way up pecking order but no way would I assume that to the extent of letting him take place of experienced, international players.

If Poch plays a 4231, I can't see Dembele and Paulhino playing as one of the 2 - they don't have the attributes of passing and steel for those positions. If Poch playes a 433 there is room for either in the middle 3.

So I think Schneiderlin or a player like him with passing/steel is pretty key for Poch to play a 4231 - likely alongsidde Capoue, with Mason getting experience in EL etc and acting as a back up to them.

 

[wpd659]

I like both Mason and Bentaleb.

Mason was originally a very good no 10, but has played CM for about 2-3 years and has a much better range of passing and vision (allied with steel and a good shot) than Bentaleb. But Nabil at 19 is about 3 years younger than Ryan and could easily develop his pasing and vision - and he's a very good prospect as we saw last season.

But as I've said Mason has pretty much it all in terms of passing/steel/vision/steel so Poch wil love the raw attributes - but Nabil has more experience right now.

As neither of them will play a full season at Spurs I'd love both of them to play as much of half a season each as possible. I think both poch and Spurs fans would love to see the results.

I have heard good things about Ryan for the last few years.
I had feared he would be one that injuries and new signings would mean we would move on.
Im glad to see he is getting a chance this pre season.
Hearing the new coaches like him.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I've just remembered that JJ said that we would be looking to sign a LWF so maybe I'm wrong in saying we won't get one.

Am I right? Did JJ say that?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I have heard good things about Ryan for the last few years.
I had feared he would be one that injuries and new signings would mean we would move on.
Im glad to see he is getting a chance this pre season.
Hearing the new coaches like him.

Do you still talk to your biatch?

 

[Spursidol]

Definitely should go for Kono or Depay. Rodriguez as good as he maybe is a fitness risk at the moment. He probably won't be fully fit till Nov at the earliest. Depay and Kono would be there from the off. Whether they would be at the level Rodriguez was before the injury is another thing.

Maybe but not a key position for us to fill right now - CB and CM first. So if we can get one in this TW, I'd love it - but we may need to explore the options to buy in January, ,meanwhile we have alternatives to play as LW/LM now whether Eriksen, Chadli, Townsend or Lennon (who has looke better this pre-season than for a long time),

 

[St José Dominguez]

If Poch plays a 4231, I can't see Dembele and Paulhino playing as one of the 2 - they don't have the attributes of passing and steel for those positions. If Poch playes a 433 there is room for either in the middle 3.

So I think Schneiderlin or a player like him with passing/steel is pretty key for Poch to play a 4231 - likely alongsidde Capoue, with Mason getting experience in EL etc and acting as a back up to them.

Yes the Schneiderlin role he is more suited. And I'd be happy if he was 3rd choice for that specific position, to go into Sept with him as one of only four options for CM though would be incredibly risky though.
The guy has never started a PL game and was on loan in league 1 last season.
On the EL it is hugely important this season and one which we can't be bedding players in. That's why we need a big squad of experienced, quality players.

 

[wpd659]

Do you still talk to your biatch?

If she makes me a sandwich and brings me a beer .
Otherwise i try not to as a rule

Ow u mean that Biatch i mite do sometimes