The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 24th June 2013

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classwell

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I am pretty sure that I said back in January that it was a mistake to bring him in during a top four challenge as the fans wouldn't give him the time that every foreign player needs to adapt to the league. I also think it doesn't help him that he has an English name.

And that prediction unlike most of my half-assed guesses in the past, has proven to be fairly apt.

He was harangued for not being a messiah, and not living up to grandiose expectations from the get-go and now we have people talking about what they perceive to be his attitude and thought process and relationship between other players.

They have a name for that. It's called confirmation bias.

I think his career here is essentially done, and not because he can't be great for us, but because he's already on the Ghaly path with fans.

This is why we don't get nice things

Holtby's always seemed like a fan favourite at every match I've been to. They just can't get enough of him.
 

CJMurray

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I am pretty sure that I said back in January that it was a mistake to bring him in during a top four challenge as the fans wouldn't give him the time that every foreign player needs to adapt to the league. I also think it doesn't help him that he has an English name.

And that prediction unlike most of my half-assed guesses in the past, has proven to be fairly apt.

He was harangued for not being a messiah, and not living up to grandiose expectations from the get-go and now we have people talking about what they perceive to be his attitude and thought process and relationship between other players.

They have a name for that. It's called confirmation bias.

I think his career here is essentially done, and not because he can't be great for us, but because he's already on the Ghaly path with fans.

This is why we don't get nice things
Completely OTT.

The Ghaly path? Don't be ridiculous. Most fans love him anyway, the 'Just can't get enough' song was sung a lot at the end of the season.
 

Nanky_1988

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Its good that hes competitive in training providing he doesnt injure players! He tries his all whenever he plays and you can see what he's like hes involved in every goal celebration ect! I f*cking <3 Holtby!!
 

Lilbaz

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We criticize Ade for not trying hard enough and now we criticize Holtby for trying too hard?

You just don't get it do ya?
We don't like Bale cause he's too good.
We don't like Levy cause he's improving us.
We don't like Lloris cause he's too French.
We don't like Defoe cause he's one of our top all time scorers.
We don't like AVB cause he mumbles and is part ginger.
We don't like Tim Sherwood cause no-ones sure what he does and that makes us uncomfortable.
We don't like Parker cause he's too old.
We don't like Kane cause he's too young.

I could keep going but I think you get the point.
 

Spurger King

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I'm a Holtby fan too. As soon as I saw his rock band celebration (singing into the microphone/corner flag, as two other players played air guitar) I warmed to him.

Really looking forward to seeing how he does next season.
 

Nanky_1988

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Holtby will be a key player next year either starting or off the bench! Hes got great talent he'll be well settled after pre season! Only thing is with Paulinho likely to come in I cant see him starting unless theres an injury to Sandro, Paulinho or Dembele!
 

Snarfalicious

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Holtby will be a key player next year either starting or off the bench! Hes got great talent he'll be well settled after pre season! Only thing is with Paulinho likely to come in I cant see him starting unless theres an injury to Sandro, Paulinho or Dembele!

We could see some 4-2-3-1 as well. And if that's the case, and Bale can get more and more used to playing on the right and cutting in, then Holtby could get substantial time in the hole pulling the strings.
 

Nanky_1988

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We could see some 4-2-3-1 as well. And if that's the case, and Bale can get more and more used to playing on the right and cutting in, then Holtby could get substantial time in the hole pulling the strings.
Perhaps but i think hes more suited to the deeper role personally as thats what he played for shalke. He is very versatile though much the same as siggy those two are important even though they probbly won't be starters! Its a shame as i like both of them alot!
 

Spurger King

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We could see some 4-2-3-1 as well. And if that's the case, and Bale can get more and more used to playing on the right and cutting in, then Holtby could get substantial time in the hole pulling the strings.
Would that involve dropping Dembele though?
 

Snarfalicious

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Would that involve dropping Dembele though?

I think we could see all sorts of combinations in the double-pivot. Dembele/Paulinho would even work perfectly against the teams that sit back. It'd give us the ability to send Paulinho forward into the box and Dembele is more than discipline enough to sit back and shield the defense. Sandro could then be used as a late sub to secure the win, etc.

Adding Paulinho gives us so many different looks and the ability to hopefully keep Dembele/Sandro fresh all season. And with being able to rotate, we could realistically bring Holtby into a midfield 3 for creativity or just have him play in the hole.
 

jair1970

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Fucking hell remind me not to deviate from the 'Holtby's ace he fucking cares' line if ever I want to comment.

People seem to have read my analysis as being 'criticism'. Far from it!

I'm firmly in the 'they need time' camp & Holtby is a quality young player, I was trumpeting Sigurdsson half the season when many were quitting on him. Hell, it's not impossible that Dempsey could be better next year! ;)
 

Snarfalicious

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Perhaps but i think hes more suited to the deeper role personally as thats what he played for shalke. He is very versatile though much the same as siggy those two are important even though they probbly won't be starters! Its a shame as i like both of them alot!

He can play deeper, but at Schalke he played in the hole probably about 85-90% of the time. He can play in a deeper role (and has stated that he sees himself there in the future) but at Schalke he played in the hole. Farfan on the right, Afellay (when healthy) on the left and Huntelaar up top. That was primarily their first choice XI with Jones and Neustadter in the double pivot. The only time I remember him playing deeper were the last couple of matches before his transfer to us.

But, it was in the hole where he made himself and really put together a solid season before moving to us. Heck, even for the Germany U21s he played in the hole and he absolutely ran things for them and if it weren't for Volland being derptastic he could have had a statistical line resembling his overall performance.
 

Nanky_1988

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True but this is more suited to a 4-2-3-1 where i think this season its going to be 4-3-3 there isn't much difference between the two though it just means we'd require another goalscoring winger!
 

JerryGarcia

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So David Villa might be coming and we're debating Holtby? Only at Spurs :LOL:

I've been moist since I read the Goat's last piece of ITK
 

Snarfalicious

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True but this is more suited to a 4-2-3-1 where i think this season its going to be 4-3-3 there isn't much difference between the two though it just means we'd require another goalscoring winger!

Yeah, that's true. I guess it'd depend on where Villa is playing. Either way, we're either a prolific line leading striker or a goal scoring wide forward away from having a fully functional 4-3-3. Oh, and possibly a LB.
 

Zbreps

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The gentleman who said he's on the Ghaly path... Really? Wow, man, get over yourself.
 

Nanky_1988

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He can play deeper, but at Schalke he played in the hole probably about 85-90% of the time. He can play in a deeper role (and has stated that he sees himself there in the future) but at Schalke he played in the hole. Farfan on the right, Afellay (when healthy) on the left and Huntelaar up top. That was primarily their first choice XI with Jones and Neustadter in the double pivot. The only time I remember him playing deeper were the last couple of matches before his transfer to us.

But, it was in the hole where he made himself and really put together a solid season before moving to us. Heck, even for the Germany U21s he played in the hole and he absolutely ran things for them and if it weren't for Volland being derptastic he could have had a statistical line resembling his overall performance.
Those last 2 games were when I watched him thats why I assumed its where he played most! Thanks for the insight though snarf you love that double Pivot don't you ;)
 

beats1

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Holtby was the exact same way at Schalke. Incredibly upbeat, always smiling, always wanting to be involved in everything. I hope he doesn't change a thing. I am who I am and all that good shit.

If people don't like him because he's constantly downing Red Bulls and acting like it, so be it. I'd never tell a person to change who they are when their biggest detriment is appearing to care too much.
AVB might be making a serious mistake by not letting them wear the heart rate monitors if that is the case tbh
 
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