The Annual Summer "It's been a poor transfer window" Discussion thread - Apocalypse Now - 30th August 2024

[HildoSpur]

Would you say it is progress if we finish 5/6 place finish with no cup wins?

No obviously not, I'd say it's around the same as what we achieved last year. However if we are able to get some of our youth players much needed first team experience then I'll certainly see that as a huge positive for the future because that is obviously what the plan is - blood the young talents this year, benefit from that for years to come. It is all about the cups this season in my opinion.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Would you say we have progressed if we finish in 5/6 place with no cup wins?

If by the end of the season the younger players are looking like established Premier League players, and we are turning in dominant performances in big games then yes.
The term I hate more than any other is painful rebuild, but this is what one looks like. We've ditched half the squad in a year and have signed some of the best young talent that needs developing with a manager that wants to do that. It may feel like a step backwards but it's what needs to be done. Do the fan base and Levy have the stomach for it?
If we require a world class midfielder like Rodri we can't get them because they're either too expensive or have better options so we have Gray. I'm all for it, hopefully we get rewarded. Our squad looks so much healthier IMHO.

 

[alfie103]

If by the end of the season the younger players are looking like established Premier League players, and we are turning in dominant performances in big games then yes.
The term I hate more than any other is painful rebuild, but this is what one looks like. We've ditched half the squad in a year and have signed some of the best young talent that needs developing with a manager that wants to do that. It may feel like a step backwards but it's what needs to be done. Do the fan base and Levy have the stomach for it?
If we require a world class midfielder like Rodri we can't get them because they're either too expensive or have better options so we have Gray. I'm all for it, hopefully we get rewarded. Our squad looks so much healthier IMHO.

At what point would your expectations of finishing 5/6th with no cup wins and developing young players we have bought change? In a year's time or 2 year's time?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

At what point would your expectations of finishing 5/6th with no cup wins and developing young players we have bought change? In a year's time or 2 year's time?

I want to see the improvement this year. I can see a change in our performances from last season already, the results will come.

 

[McFlash]

I think we all agree that we needed, and should have got, at least one more proper first team player in.
Not doing so has been a big let down and has caused a lot of frustration.

I don't agree that we can keep using Eze as the stick to beat the club with though, with all this "we should have just got Eze in, that's what the big clubs do".

Very few clubs pay release clauses and for good reason, it's a hell of a lot of cash in one go and when the early links to Eze came along, I thought the wide consensus was that we'd never pay 70 odd million in one hit?
The only PL club I can recall having recently triggered a release clauses was Arsenal with Pepe, and they did that by using external finance to spread the cost, something which our current loans may mean isn't an option for us.

So I think it's a little unfair to now use that as an example of the club being small-time, especially as it was suggested by itk that we'd offered slightly more than the release clauses to enable us to spread the payments out.

Palace would not budge in getting the clause met and no other club bit either, hence Eze still playing in south London.

Yes, we should've got another senior body in, at least one and it's annoying that we didn't but overall, I don't think that's made it a terrible window.

 

[E17yid]

We can absolutely win stuff - what we can't do is win the league right now.

True, but if we accept we’re in another transition year how likely is it, or how reasonable is it, to expect us to win a cup?

 

[jimbo]

Bit of a strange window in some respects. I'm totally on board with the Gray, Bergvall, Odobert signings - if the strategy is to build a side that includes our promising youth players and peaks around the same time that is quite exciting and something we all ought to be able to get behind.

But it calls for sacrifices, mostly with regard to results in the immediate now - is the hierarchy prepared to accept that? We must presume so, but I'm not totally convinced.

Where things get weird for me is in the signing of Solanke and renewing of Werner - it already feels like Werner isn't going to play all that much, but I guess all it's costing us is wages in the short-term. I don't want to re-open the >Kane/<Rasiak debate on Solanke, I'm sure he'll do okay - I just don't really understand why we spend that money on an okay here-and-now player when everything else seems geared towards a more distant future.

The best teams that I remember us having were the Redknapp Modric-Bale-Rafa team and the Pochettino D-E-S-K team. I, perhaps naively, assume that's the mark we're trying to get back to if not surpass. Our younger signings may lead us there, in time - but I can't see our senior signings being of the same kind of quality, in which case surely it's better not to spend the money?

I might be completely wrong, and Solanke and Werner fire us to European glory or a 4th placed finish (depending on your preference) - I'd love to see it, it just doesn't feel very probable.

So, in judging this window I think a lot depends on how Solanke does over the season - and how patient the board will be. I'm pretty optimistic for future seasons, but this one not so much - unless we finally take the Europa League seriously (please).

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think we all agree that we needed, and should have got, at least one more proper first team player in.
Not doing so has been a big let down and has caused a lot of frustration.

I don't agree that we can keep using Eze as the stick to beat the club with though, with all this "we should have just got Eze in, that's what the big clubs do".

Very few clubs pay release clauses and for good reason, it's a hell of a lot of cash in one go and when the early links to Eze came along, I thought the wide consensus was that we'd never pay 70 odd million in one hit?
The only PL club I can recall having recently triggered a release clauses was Arsenal with Pepe, and they did that by using external finance to spread the cost, something which our current loans may mean isn't an option for us.

So I think it's a little unfair to now use that as an example of the club being small-time, especially as it was suggested by itk that we'd offered slightly more than the release clauses to enable us to spread the payments out.

Palace would not budge in getting the clause met and no other club bit either, hence Eze still playing in south London.

Yes, we should've got another senior body in, at least one and it's annoying that we didn't but overall, I don't think that's made it a terrible window.

Yep fair points on Eze in particular but that is the level of quality of player we needed to be targeting to bring in and didn't.

In theory we could've perhaps gone for Chiesa for about £10mil or outside of that there are plenty of good quality wing forwards who if we'd stumped up £60mil and decent wages that we could've signed to help move the quality of our attack forwards, we just decided that we couldn't stretch the 'budget' that far and/or that we ran out of squad places to sign another player like that (in which case we shouldn't have re-loaned Werner or we should've done our best to force Richy to take the Saudi option -easier said that done ofc).

Overall we did re-shape the squad well and improved our depth but we are still short at LB, LCB, CDM and in attack, as you say one more proper first team signing especially in attack would've take away a lot of the frustration we have right now as we are seeing Ange coach great performances but the quality of players we have aren't able to effectively and consistently make the right decisions and take and score the chances we are creating.

Anyways it is what is is so lets hope Solanke and ideally Richy are both back and fit soon and can stay fit, if they do then I think we will turn more of these performances to wins, if not then it is what is it until Jan and next summer and we roll with it.

Main thing is there does seem to be a clear plan which is refreshing at least.

 

[HildoSpur]

True, but if we accept we’re in another transition year how likely is it, or how reasonable is it, to expect us to win a cup?

We are capable of winning a cup - as with every cup competition a lot is down to the luck of the draw. If we get City in the FA cup and League Cup in the early rounds then our chances of winning are not great. We should be putting every effort into the cups.

 

[WiganSpur]

Yes, they had much less to do and still with their priorities.

They will spend big next summer on proven players if no kids break through, 100%. And that’s the difference.

 

[E17yid]

We are capable of winning a cup - as with every cup competition a lot is down to the luck of the draw. If we get City in the FA cup and League Cup in the early rounds then our chances of winning are not great. We should be putting every effort into the cups.

We have a chance for sure but like every year it’s a pretty small chance, favourable draw or not. I can understand the sentiment behind throwing it all at the cups as I’d like us to do that, but I’m not sure that’s how you build a winning mentality/culture as we’ve can’t afford to fuck off the league, we need to do well in that too.

 

[cliff jones]

Do you do lottery numbers too cliff?

if I did you'd be calling me Mr Chairman. And Danny boy would be embalmed in the Tottenham 'Experience'

 

[HildoSpur]

We have a chance for sure but like every year it’s a pretty small chance, favourable draw or not. I can understand the sentiment behind throwing it all at the cups as I’d like us to do that, but I’m not sure that’s how you build a winning mentality/culture as we’ve can’t afford to fuck off the league, we need to do well in that too.

When I say we need to focus on the cups what I mean is that we play strong teams from the start in each competition. It doesn't mean we play a weakened side in the league - obviously the league is priority but I don't want to see a repeat of the situation last year when we put out a very weak side thinking we could get past Fulham and totally fucked it up.

 

[E17yid]

When I say we need to focus on the cups what I mean is that we play strong teams from the start in each competition. It doesn't mean we play a weakened side in the league - obviously the league is priority but I don't want to see a repeat of the situation last year when we put out a very weak side thinking we could get past Fulham and totally fucked it up.

I think he will as the Fulham game was a bit of a one off so early on in his time with us. The million dollar question is what is going to be our “strong team” this season. If it’s what we’re seeing at the moment then Bergvall and Gray won’t even get many minutes in the Europa league or domestic cups which is what everyone wants.

 

[HildoSpur]

I think he will as the Fulham game was a bit of a one off so early on in his time with us. The million dollar question is what is going to be our “strong team” this season. If it’s what we’re seeing at the moment then Bergvall and Gray won’t even get many minutes in the Europa league or domestic cups which is what everyone wants.

I'd expect to see Gray and Bergvall getting starts in the early rounds of the cups and that's fine by me - they aren't academy kids, they are active first team squad members. I don't think either of them in the side would weaken it.

 

[Stamford]

If I see or hear "do spurs fans have the stomach for a painful rebuild" one more time I'll lose it.

I think this is about the tenth rebuild I've witnessed. Second since Poch left. The fans will always have the stomach, we'll always buy the season ticket again. Do this board have the stomach for it?

 

[djhotspur]

If I see or hear "do spurs fans have the stomach for a painful rebuild" one more time I'll lose it.

I think this is about the tenth rebuild I've witnessed. Second since Poch left. The fans will always have the stomach, we'll always buy the season ticket again. Do this board have the stomach for it?

But do you look at arsenal and Liverpool and what they built and think we need to emulate that? Because that required huge rebuilds.

Can you imagine arteta lasting as long at spurs and on SC with how things went there? You do need to give a manager time and I always thought it would be 3 years before we are in the right position.

We are 2 starting 11 players away imo, a top 6, a top winger and a LB cover from challenging. If we can get that going into next season I back us.

I think a wc 6 is so so key to the way we play and arsenal and city, they both have them in rice and rodri they both look so much weaker without them and trust me arsenal will miss rice against us.

 

[Stamford]

But do you look at arsenal and Liverpool and what they built and think we need to emulate that? Because that required huge rebuilds.

Can you imagine arteta lasting as long at spurs and on SC with how things went there? You do need to give a manager time and I always thought it would be 3 years before we are in the right position.

We are 2 starting 11 players away imo, a top 6, a top winger and a LB cover from challenging. If we can get that going into next season I back us.

I think a wc 6 is so so key to the way we play and arsenal and city, they both have them in rice and rodri they both look so much weaker without them and trust me arsenal will miss rice against us.

Yes we need to do that and give him time, I wanted to give Conte more time and I'll give Ange another season at the very least, probably needs two more. But this constant questioning of the fan base is just annoying. It's not on the fan base. We keep showing up while the club just delivered another poor window. Stop questioning the fan bases stomach and start questioning people who have power to affect change because we don't have any.

If a no 6 was so key to the way we play, we should have bought one. If we needed LB cover again why wasn't that part of the plan also. It was obvious to many on here who aren't in football in a professional capacity.

The issue is we are always 2/3 players away. In a year or two years you have to replace Son, probably Maddison and maybe even the CB's. That's if the rest keep up their current form. We need to go and spend big money on proven players that can come in and uplift everyone. This team is decent, will likely finish between 4-8th but it lacks any real personality and when adversity comes I worry about them standing up and managing a game properly

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

We're always building for a brighter future. Just hope one day it actually arrives.

Narrator ; " That day, unfortunately never arrived"

 

[dontcallme]

But do you look at arsenal and Liverpool and what they built and think we need to emulate that? Because that required huge rebuilds.

Can you imagine arteta lasting as long at spurs and on SC with how things went there? You do need to give a manager time and I always thought it would be 3 years before we are in the right position.

We are 2 starting 11 players away imo, a top 6, a top winger and a LB cover from challenging. If we can get that going into next season I back us.

I think a wc 6 is so so key to the way we play and arsenal and city, they both have them in rice and rodri they both look so much weaker without them and trust me arsenal will miss rice against us.

True. But many Arsenal fans were strongly against Arteta after two seasons in charge.

It’s the board that stuck with him.

It’s the same here. I see little calls for Ange to go but definitely some questioning of him. But it’s the board that need to see this through, not us.