The Annual Summer "It's been a poor transfer window" Discussion thread - Apocalypse Now - 30th August 2024

[jackson]

But we only bring in players that Ange wants, he even backed that up in the last pre match press conference on Newcastle and he clearly states this in his interview with Lineker last year. So is Ange a liar if many are claiming he is only doing what he is told by Levy eg Werner

I would assume like most of us, Ange, was happy enough to take Werner if it facilitated money being spent on quality elsewhere. The second part is the problem

 

[cliff jones]

Equally we’ve just let go of Ndombele and Lo Celso for a combined £5m after £100m invested. You see why they don’t fancy going all out on everyone Mr P!

I think discounting Solanke deal because it worked for us financially is harsh.

I get your frustrations. I think we just need to give it a bit more time. Good article by Dan Killy P a while ago about having the stomach for a full reboot, I’ve seen enough to give it that.

Poor due d overseen by you know who. But Pepe cost 70 odd. They've shown balls since. He won't.

 

[cliff jones]

The left side of our defence is the pressure point. VDV and Udog have pace and suit the system. While Spence is no slouch he and Drag are both unbalanced when deployed on the left. Davies should have been upgraded this summer.

VDV and Udog will miss quite a few games, through injury or rest. Son doesn't track effectively, our deepest midfielders are not defensive.

I think the problem will be quite obvious quite quickly.

Just like we can't rely on Richarlison

I've never replied to myself before- feels liberating!

As I said, left side of defence. Now we see Romero can't play there either... that through ball would have done Davies as well...

 

[soflapaul]

Yes the outgoings and kids set us up well
BUT what if the future never comes?
I am a little alarmed how some people have happily accepted this.
Especially those paying for season tickets etc.
It's not as simple to say we should just sign big players but we've spent a fair bit and still are seriously short now.
I don't understand how this can be acceptable.
We all sat here in April and stated we needed big changes in attack. Mostly better decision makers ans ruthlessness.
Solanke doesn't fill that IMO although is a solid PL striker
Odobert is still way off the top level.
Are we really resting everything on Moore?
A 17 year old?
Don't get me started on the left sided defender we failed to sign.

You are on to something here as you would have to conclude that unless Ange has something up his sleeve, the left sided defender was the glaring ommission this time around as well as a lack of an on the field general. Both massive misses.

However, i'm not with you yet on Solanke and want to give him a chance as he might be the key that unlocks better performances for the rest of the offense. He did well on an average side and now steps into a side which will create more opportunities for him. I'm not comparing him to Modric in terms of ability or impact but he might have a fractio of the effect that Luka had. Modric's brilliance forced opposing defenders to have an eye on him as well as whoever they were defending. That created a wee bit of extra space and time allowing for poorer players to do better. Will Solanke reach that level? Highly, highly doubtful. If all goes well, err injury free, his presence will occupy central defenders far more than egads, Sonny or even Richy. That in turn will create a little bit more space for the wingers and the half spaces for the midfielders.

What is most worrying is our continued defensive decision making and communication on counter attacks. It's our achilles heel. And that is on Ange. I'm fully behind him but hoping he figures something out to reduce the risk when opposition counters.

We are still 1-2 transfer windows away from where we should be.

 

[rossdapep]

They are.

The difference with the likes of Liverpool....had Eze been theyre main target they would of signed him, one way or another the deal gets done.

You have to pay up for PROVEN quality.

We're always relunctant to do that, and prefer the punt on potential.

I know we paid up for Solanke but then we liked the payment structure.

We needed more real quality into our attack but just wouldnt do it..

Not good enough for the ticket prices we pay imo.

It really isn't is it?

I don't think many are asking for silly windows like what Chelsea and United do or a 100m player every summer.

But wouldn't it have been nice for the club to have identified a player that can elevate the team and gone out to do it.

No. We get messages we want a certain player, then when the value goes over 60m or so it changes to "keeping tabs" to that player just getting away from us or not being interested.

If the people at this club realised that paying 80m or so for that player who will take us up a level, then they'd realise they wouldn't have to shop twice or sign opportunistic players and be trying to get rid of them a couple of years later.

And before someone uses Ndombele as an example we stupidly paid over the odds for a player who hadn't proven anything. I'm talking about players like Eze.

And you can see what will happen. I think this season will be bumpy. We'll win some games we'll but struggle to put others away, maybe a few heavy defeats too.

EL we'll do okay. enough for Moore to show he has better decision making than first teamers.

The club will.use that as a reason to not invest in another attacker next summer, along with the 60 spent on Solanke.

We will finally sign a LCB/LB and a midfielder. Great.

But we won't identify a next level player and any player that joins after that will be a young prospect or a level below that.

Meanwhile, players like Romero won't stick around and wait for all the talent to fulfill its potential.

 

[rossdapep]

You are on to something here as you would have to conclude that unless Ange has something up his sleeve, the left sided defender was the glaring ommission this time around as well as a lack of an on the field general. Both massive misses.

However, i'm not with you yet on Solanke and want to give him a chance as he might be the key that unlocks better performances for the rest of the offense. He did well on an average side and now steps into a side which will create more opportunities for him. I'm not comparing him to Modric in terms of ability or impact but he might have a fractio of the effect that Luka had. Modric's brilliance forced opposing defenders to have an eye on him as well as whoever they were defending. That created a wee bit of extra space and time allowing for poorer players to do better. Will Solanke reach that level? Highly, highly doubtful. If all goes well, err injury free, his presence will occupy central defenders far more than egads, Sonny or even Richy. That in turn will create a little bit more space for the wingers and the half spaces for the midfielders.

What is most worrying is our continued defensive decision making and communication on counter attacks. It's our achilles heel. And that is on Ange. I'm fully behind him but hoping he figures something out to reduce the risk when opposition counters.

We are still 1-2 transfer windows away from where we should be.

Yeah Solanke could make a big difference. A competent CF can do that.

But I'm still not sure because today all of Son, Deki, Werner and Johnson all had a moment or 2 where the space opened for them to make a not too difficult pass into a teammate to create a chance and they fluffed everyone of them by either poor execution, choosing to go the wrong way or choosing to shoot instead.

That won't change with Solanke.

The hope has to be that those momentss fall to Solanke rather than them waste them, he makes better choices but again I'm not sure he is that good to change it.

 

[DiVaio]

They are.

The difference with the likes of Liverpool....had Eze been theyre main target they would of signed him, one way or another the deal gets done.

You have to pay up for PROVEN quality.

We're always relunctant to do that, and prefer the punt on potential.

I know we paid up for Solanke but then we liked the payment structure.

We needed more real quality into our attack but just wouldnt do it..

Not good enough for the ticket prices we pay imo.

Do you mean the same Liverpool that couldn't sign Zubimendi(or other top class 6) to replace Fabinho in the last two years and only signed Chiesa because they couldn't buy Gordon who was their top target?

 

[alfie103]

Equally we’ve just let go of Ndombele and Lo Celso for a combined £5m after £100m invested. You see why they don’t fancy going all out on everyone Mr P!

I think discounting Solanke deal because it worked for us financially is harsh.

I get your frustrations. I think we just need to give it a bit more time. Good article by Dan Killy P a while ago about having the stomach for a full reboot, I’ve seen enough to give it that.

But this is one of the main issues. All of the clubs competing at the top have signed players who haven't worked out and have had to take a substantial loss on them. That hasn't stopped them going out and doing it again. It seems to me that's what you need to do to compete at the top.

 

[WiganSpur]

Do you mean the same Liverpool that couldn't sign Zubimendi(or other top class 6) to replace Fabinho in the last two years and only signed Chiesa because they couldn't buy Gordon who was their top target?

Liverpool needed a miniscule amount of surgery compared to us.

 

[Stoof]

Poor due d overseen by you know who. But Pepe cost 70 odd. They've shown balls since. He won't.

Do you do lottery numbers too cliff?

 

[Stoof]

But this is one of the main issues. All of the clubs competing at the top have signed players who haven't worked out and have had to take a substantial loss on them. That hasn't stopped them going out and doing it again. It seems to me that's what you need to do to compete at the top.

I'm not saying they haven't - but I'm saying we've done it pretty dramatically in the last 5 years on a number of players. That will obviously have an effect.

Equally I have no doubt that the manager prefers younger players not set in their ways so he can mould them. It can't be coincidence that has been the profile of who we've signed and been after.

This is the rebuild that should have happened in 2019; and I don't think everyone has the stomach for it. You can't change 11 players in a year and adopt an entirely different way of playing at the same time. It has to be gradual, it has to be a project.

If we'd have not spent any money in the last 12 months (and I include last summer in that), I'd be fully on board with your point of view, but we have spent money. Vicario, VDV, Maddison, Johnson, Solanke, Gray, Odobert, Bergvall. Whilst also integrating Sarr and Udogie after their loans. That's 6 or 7 starters from that list. That's money out (from the first list) and that's 10 new players.

Think there needs to be some reflection on that in my opinion. We're in a really good position to bring through some exciting youth and see how they fair this season. Sprinkle the quality next summer to add to a year of those guys, then that's it.

Doesn't mean we can't play well and get results and do fun things this year, but it's a work-in-progress and should be acknowledged as that (as was Liverpool, as was Arsenal - note Arsenal fans being annoyed about signing Sterling rather than the 'next' Sterling).

 

[Whazam]

Liverpool needed a miniscule amount of surgery compared to us.

Yes, they had much less to do and still with their priorities.

 

[HildoSpur]

This season is going to be another transitional one for the club that is obvious and I'm fine with that personally because at least I can see the direction we are heading and I can see an actual plan. I'm hoping we can do well in the cups and hopefully get a top 6 finish in the league. Anything more than that is a bonus right now. Anybody expecting more is a bit deluded.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

This season is going to be another transitional one for the club that is obvious and I'm fine with that personally because at least I can see the direction we are heading and I can see an actual plan. I'm hoping we can do well in the cups and hopefully get a top 6 finish in the league. Anything more than that is a bonus right now. Anybody expecting more is a bit deluded.

Just out of interest - given that we finished 5th last season, two points off of fourth, why would it have been deluded heading in to this summer transfer window thinking we should aim for higher than 6th in the coming season?

 

[E17yid]

This season is going to be another transitional one for the club that is obvious and I'm fine with that personally because at least I can see the direction we are heading and I can see an actual plan. I'm hoping we can do well in the cups and hopefully get a top 6 finish in the league. Anything more than that is a bonus right now. Anybody expecting more is a bit deluded.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you (though I think it’s still early days and hard to know how this season will play out) but Ange is a 3 year coach who has repeatedly said year 2 is when he wins stuff and it’s admirable he hasn’t shied away from that with us this season.

It will be interesting to see if his messaging changes to sound more like yours in the coming months.

 

[dontcallme]

I'm not saying they haven't - but I'm saying we've done it pretty dramatically in the last 5 years on a number of players. That will obviously have an effect.

Equally I have no doubt that the manager prefers younger players not set in their ways so he can mould them. It can't be coincidence that has been the profile of who we've signed and been after.

This is the rebuild that should have happened in 2019; and I don't think everyone has the stomach for it. You can't change 11 players in a year and adopt an entirely different way of playing at the same time. It has to be gradual, it has to be a project.

If we'd have not spent any money in the last 12 months (and I include last summer in that), I'd be fully on board with your point of view, but we have spent money. Vicario, VDV, Maddison, Johnson, Solanke, Gray, Odobert, Bergvall. Whilst also integrating Sarr and Udogie after their loans. That's 6 or 7 starters from that list. That's money out (from the first list) and that's 10 new players.

Think there needs to be some reflection on that in my opinion. We're in a really good position to bring through some exciting youth and see how they fair this season. Sprinkle the quality next summer to add to a year of those guys, then that's it.

Doesn't mean we can't play well and get results and do fun things this year, but it's a work-in-progress and should be acknowledged as that (as was Liverpool, as was Arsenal - note Arsenal fans being annoyed about signing Sterling rather than the 'next' Sterling).

Good post.

When I look at the huge increase in performance from Arsenal it didn’t stem from huge money signings on proven superstars.

It came from high investment on young players and quality players not yet proven enough for the elite to come in strong.

Salah and Mane absolutely transformed Liverpool’s attack.

At the moment my concern isn’t on the amount we’ve spent. I’m just not quite convinced of our attacking options being of the quality needed to get the required goals to make us compete this season.

I’m very much on the fence with it so not writing us off but a bit of extra quality in the final third and we’d be on 9 points now instead of 4.

 

[dontcallme]

Just out of interest - given that we finished 5th last season, two points off of fourth, why would it have been deluded heading in to this summer transfer window thinking we should aim for higher than 6th in the coming season?

Exactly.

Last season we were ravaged by injuries. This summer we’ve sold the players that didn’t get a look in at all and bought players the manager is clearly ready to play now.

Sonia nothing else I believe we’ve improved the squad and in no way should be writing us off from achieving around the same level as last season.

 

[HildoSpur]

Just out of interest - given that we finished 5th last season, two points off of fourth, why would it have been deluded heading in to this summer transfer window thinking we should aim for higher than 6th in the coming season?

I'd say most people would agree that we are aiming for another 5/6 place finish. We had no European competition last year but we now will have many more fixtures to contend with.

 

[alfie103]

I'd say most people would agree that we are aiming for another 5/6 place finish. We had no european competition last year but we now will have many more fixtures.

Would you say we have progressed if we finish in 5/6 place with no cup wins?

 

[HildoSpur]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you (though I think it’s still early days and hard to know how this season will play out) but Ange is a 3 year coach who has repeatedly said year 2 is when he wins stuff and it’s admirable he hasn’t shied away from that with us this season.

It will be interesting to see if his messaging changes to sound more like yours in the coming months.

We can absolutely win stuff - what we can't do is win the league right now.