Team vs CSKA

[Bus-Conductor]

1) its only September.... Let's not worry about what we are going to be doing in March just yet.

2) Lamela's Cameo on Saturday could not have been that sapping of his strength and I'm sure he is more than capable of playing tomorrow for 60 odd mins and then be in good shape for Sunday.

3) I agree we have to rotate..... You're implying we haven't been when i feel we have so far.

This, for me, it's not the game to rotate too heavily in. Had we beaten Monaco game 1 its a different story but we didn't and now 3 away points from this tie is virtuality a necessity.

I've watched arsenal underestimate this kind of team in the CL year after year and they have suffered because of it. we cannot afford to do the same here.

1) Completely wrong. Worry about what we are doing in March now, it's too late to worry about it in March.

2) If Lamela travels all the way to Russia and plays he will just be good for another cameo against City, and I'd rather he started.

Arsenal qualify for the CL every year, whatever they are doing to do that we can't go to far wrong emulating.

 

[Coolpudge]

Do both teams travel together?

They should do. They're both in Moscow anyway.

 

[faze_coys]

Oh wow, woulda thought he'd play in the Youth game instead.

He may still do, but hes definitely training with the first team at the stadium ATM as seen on Snapchat

 

[hughy]

2) If Lamela travels all the way to Russia and plays he will just be good for another cameo against City, and I'd rather he started.

Based on what? He'll start both games, I'd put money on it.


The more I read that, the more ridiculous it becomes @Bus-Conductor. The two games are 5 days apart. Plenty of players will be starting both!

 

[JAYSTAR]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37478433

Kane Sissoko Dembele Dier Rose all out and rest Walker for City match, so:

Lloris
Trippier Toby Wimmer Davies
Wanyama Alli
Son Lamela Eriksen
Janssen
​

Bench: Vorm Walker CCV Verts Winks N'koudou Onomah

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Based on what? He'll start both games, I'd put money on it.


The more I read that, the more ridiculous it becomes @Bus-Conductor. The two games are 5 days apart. Plenty of players will be starting both!

I think now Sissoko is injured it's more likely that Lamela will start both, but in an ideal world you'd have as few doing that as possible with as little compromise as possible, and IMO Lamela is a better option for that ARM than Sissoko is, therefore if both were fit I'd rather use Sissoko midweek and keep Lamela fresh for the weekend.

 

[felmani26]

I think now Sissoko is injured it's more likely that Lamela will start both, but in an ideal world you'd have as few doing that as possible with as little compromise as possible, and IMO Lamela is a better option for that ARM than Sissoko is, therefore if both were fit I'd rather use Sissoko midweek and keep Lamela fresh for the weekend.

Do you honestly believe Pep would be rotating a midweek Champions League tie with one eye on us at the weekend?

As @hughy alludes to, 5 days is ample recovery time, even taking into account a long haul trip to Moscow.

 

[spurs9]

Do you honestly believe Pep would be rotating a midweek Champions League tie with one eye on us at the weekend?

As @hughy alludes to, 5 days is ample recovery time, even taking into account a long haul trip to Moscow.

TBF, they are playing Celtic, so they could rest their first 11 and still win easily. I agree that 5 days rest is ample time though.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

TBF, they are playing Celtic, so they could rest their first 11 and still win easily. I agree that 5 days rest is ample time though.

I think it ample time taken in isolation, but over the course of a season - especially when we are talking away trips to Russia - why not use the squad, that's why we have one isn't it ? That's why we bought players like Sissoko, Wanyma, Janssen, Nkoudou and have the likes of Onomah and Winks in the first team squad isn't it, so we have viable rotation and cover ?

I don't believe for a nano second that Poch will go with my suggested line up, and as far as CCV goes, I accept, playing him with Wimmer was not a sensible choice and have amended, but I don't see players like Winks and Onomah in a CM3 with Wanyama as liabilities - I like them very much on their own merit - and assumed the whole point of buying players like Sissoko and Nkoudou was to have these squad rotation options.

And as I have already pointed out, players like Dier, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Son hardly lit up the pitch did they ? Why do we always assume that the younger players will be catastrophic ? They invariably work their nuts off and in Winks and Onomah's case have talent as well.

 

[spurs9]

I think it ample time taken in isolation, but over the course of a season - especially when we are talking away trips to Russia - why not use the squad, that's why we have one isn't it ? That's why we bought players like Sissoko, Wanyma, Janssen, Nkoudou and have the likes of Onomah and Winks in the first team squad isn't it, so we have viable rotation and cover ?

I don't believe for a nano second that Poch will go with my suggested line up, and as far as CCV goes, I accept, playing him with Wimmer was not a sensible choice and have amended, but I don't see players like Winks and Onomah in a CM3 with Wanyama as liabilities - I like them very much on their own merit - and assumed the whole point of buying players like Sissoko and Nkoudou was to have these squad rotation options.

Whilst I agree to an extent, you still have to build up match fitness as this stage of the season, Also, if we lose this game, it puts the squad under a lot of mental pressure for the remainder of the group stage, which can affect mental fatigue later on too and I don't care what anyone says, mental fatigue affects physical performance. Contained within the next 6 games, we have WBA, Bournemouth and Liverpool in the cup and these are much better opportunities to rest certain players IMO.

Winks and Onomah aren't liabilities IMO, but playing them both in a formation our 1st team isn't completely familiar with, could be. If you look at my team selection earlier in the thread, I have put Winks along side Wanyama in a CM 2. In regards to Nkoudou, I think he will be more effective right now coming on v tired legs and think he should come on with 30 mins to go v CSKA.

 

[felmani26]

I think it ample time taken in isolation, but over the course of a season - especially when we are talking away trips to Russia - why not use the squad, that's why we have one isn't it ? That's why we bought players like Sissoko, Wanyma, Janssen, Nkoudou and have the likes of Onomah and Winks in the first team squad isn't it, so we have viable rotation and cover ?

I don't believe for a nano second that Poch will go with my suggested line up, and as far as CCV goes, I accept, playing him with Wimmer was not a sensible choice and have amended, but I don't see players like Winks and Onomah in a CM3 with Wanyama as liabilities - I like them very much on their own merit - and assumed the whole point of buying players like Sissoko and Nkoudou was to have these squad rotation options.

And as I have already pointed out, players like Dier, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Son hardly lit up the pitch did they ? Why do we always assume that the younger players will be catastrophic ? They invariably work their nuts off and in Winks and Onomah's case have talent as well.

There's something here you haven't factored in and that is top level experience which we are going to have to draw on to get a solid result out in Russia.

We absolutely cannot afford to lose this game in light of Monaco and the added importance will only serve to increase pressure on the shoulders of our players - I don't want Winks/Onomah et al being thrust well into the deep end and potentially getting scarred and also, it tells for want of a better word 'senior' players like Alli/Lamela (if we are going on likely casualties) that the manager didn't have faith in them in a match of importance.

Perhaps I look too much into things but regardless, their time will surely come - just not against Moscow.

 

[spurious1]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake or something, but it seems to me, that we go on and on about how important it is to finish in the top four to make the CL...then when we do (finally) manage it, loads seem to be advocating putting out a less than full strength side in that same tournement, to save players for the prem....so we can make the CL next year. Am I the only one who finds the logic bizarre?

 

[BringBack_leGin]

In light of the injury update:

Lloris
Walker Alderweireld Vertonghen Davies
Wanyama
Alli Eriksen
Lamela ___________ Son
Janssen

Vorm Trippier Wimmer Winks Onomah Nkoudou Edwards​

 

[RicOfPeace]

Must win game imo after the poor start so I'd go with...
Vorm
Walker Toby Wimmer Davies
Wanyama Winks
Lamela Eriksen Son
Janssen

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There's something here you haven't factored in and that is top level experience which we are going to have to draw on to get a solid result out in Russia.

We absolutely cannot afford to lose this game in light of Monaco and the added importance will only serve to increase pressure on the shoulders of our players - I don't want Winks/Onomah et al being thrust well into the deep end and potentially getting scarred and also, it tells for want of a better word 'senior' players like Alli/Lamela (if we are going on likely casualties) that the manager didn't have faith in them in a match of importance.

Perhaps I look too much into things but regardless, their time will surely come - just not against Moscow.

I think this is much overrated - this concept that experience always trumps youthful talent or energy - it didn't help us at home to Monaco for example. Winks and Onomah scarred ? Where do you get the vaguest notion that they would be scarred ? Onomah was chucked to the lions in a weak side away at Dortmund last season, hasn't seemed to dent his self belief a bit judging by his performance last week.

I would think being dropped for Sissoko for the league game last weekend would have troubled Lamela more than being "rested" for an away trip to Moscow. And Alli's still a kid, and a very inconsistent one at that, I don't trust him any more than I do Onomah or Winks between the boxes of a pitch.

 

[Chimbo1]

I agree, on the face of it, it appears bizarre, however champs league positions = more money & ability to attract the top players

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake or something, but it seems to me, that we go on and on about how important it is to finish in the top four to make the CL...then when we do (finally) manage it, loads seem to be advocating putting out a less than full strength side in that same tournement, to save players for the prem....so we can make the CL next year. Am I the only one who finds the logic bizarre?

 

[Mr Pink]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake or something, but it seems to me, that we go on and on about how important it is to finish in the top four to make the CL...then when we do (finally) manage it, loads seem to be advocating putting out a less than full strength side in that same tournement, to save players for the prem....so we can make the CL next year. Am I the only one who finds the logic bizarre?

You're right to point that out, however finishing regularly in the top four would achieve higher all round success for the long term in terms of keeping and attracting players.

But yeah, wholesale changes are ridiculous IMO. But I've no problem with some suggesting a tweak or two, like playing Winks in a very strong side, not one.littered with change, inexperience and no continuity playing as a team.

 

[felmani26]

I think this is much overrated - this concept that experience always trumps youthful talent or energy - it didn't help us at home to Monaco for example. Winks and Onomah scarred ? Where do you get the vaguest notion that they would be scarred ? Onomah was chucked to the lions in a weak side away at Dortmund last season, hasn't seemed to dent his self belief a bit judging by his performance last week.

I would think being dropped for Sissoko for the league game last weekend would have troubled Lamela more than being "rested" for an away trip to Moscow. And Alli's still a kid, and a very inconsistent one at that, I don't trust him any more than I do Onomah or Winks between the boxes of a pitch.

A perfomance at home, against struggling Gillingham in the 3rd round of the league cup - completely and utterly ideal for our promising youth to still acclimatise and ascend into the first team in front of a supportive home crowd. There was a blatant disregard to the Europa League last year and as such, the subliminal message was basically go out and play with freedom but our season doesn't depend on this one iota - of course this wouldn't 'scar' Onomah as there was little pressure on his shoulders.

The Champions League is a different beast and I don't honestly see the clamour to throw Winks in at the deep end - just seems too far into the risk element rather than reward.

There is a reason why coaches generally lean on players with experience - especially in tough away conditions - because that experience can pay dividends in allowing the player to play the game and not the occasion/crowd.

Look, i'm really hopeful on Winks due to his skill set and facilitating defence to attack whilst always seeking the ball but like I said before, let's nurture that talent in much more opportune times than this match.

 

[DIEHARD]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake or something, but it seems to me, that we go on and on about how important it is to finish in the top four to make the CL...then when we do (finally) manage it, loads seem to be advocating putting out a less than full strength side in that same tournement, to save players for the prem....so we can make the CL next year. Am I the only one who finds the logic bizarre?

Youre 100%- coreect, in my view its fucking absurd. You must pick the games you rest players in for example surely resting walker would have made more sense against Boro than away against CSKA. Or playing Winks than playing say a Wanyama.

Players want to play in these big games and resting them just would be counterproductive,

 

[Bus-Conductor]

A perfomance at home, against struggling Gillingham in the 3rd round of the league cup - completely and utterly ideal for our promising youth to still acclimatise and ascend into the first team in front of a supportive home crowd. There was a blatant disregard to the Europa League last year and as such, the subliminal message was basically go out and play with freedom but our season doesn't depend on this one iota - of course this wouldn't 'scar' Onomah as there was little pressure on his shoulders.

The Champions League is a different beast and I don't honestly see the clamour to throw Winks in at the deep end - just seems too far into the risk element rather than reward.

There is a reason why coaches generally lean on players with experience - especially in tough away conditions - because that experience can pay dividends in allowing the player to play the game and not the occasion/crowd.

Look, i'm really hopeful on Winks due to his skill set and facilitating defence to attack whilst always seeking the ball but like I said before, let's nurture that talent in much more opportune times than this match.

That's not true, we played pretty strong sides throughout the Europa, that was the oddity, that we then played our weakest team against Dortmund.

The term "leaning on experience" is very dubious. We achieved our best ever PL finish last year with our youngest and (possibly?) least experienced PL side. Managers who can't coach "lean on experience" too much. Experience is only viable if it's better than the less experienced option. I don't believe merely being more experienced automatically makes someone a better option or more trustworthy or a better fit for a system.

I don't believe Moscow away represents a tougher challenge than any PL game home or away.