Takefusa Kubo

[Ghost Hardware]

Kubo instead of Werner and we’d be nailed on for top 4 imo. Werner is very much the weak link in our winger options

I honestly wouldn’t be that surprised if his loan got cancelled in jan (if his mins are significantly reduced due to being pushed down the pecking order)

 

[Jiminio]

I think the Werner loan is all about Mikey Moore. Werner gives additional experienced cover for a year whilst Moore develops and doesn’t take up a permanent squad place. Don’t see the point in Kubo to be honest, would block Moore’s path

 

[$hoguN]

I honestly wouldn’t be that surprised if his loan got cancelled in jan.

Can we all just stop being a prick about Werner?

He added great value last season, is an experienced pro to help the younger players and is likely to contribute again this season. There is zero need for the “why did we sign him”, “loan will get cancelled in Jan”, etc.

People need to just lay off putting the boot into him, Richy and Johnson when they have all contributed under Ange

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Can we all just stop being a prick about Werner?

He added great value last season, is an experienced pro to help the younger players and is likely to contribute again this season. There is zero need for the “why did sign him”, “loan will get cancelled in Jan”, etc.

People need to just lay off putting the boot into him, Richy and Johnson when they have all contributed under Ange

I haven’t once said he’s a bad player, limited yes but not bad, and I have said he was indeed useful last season but this is not last season. We are trying to progress as a team and sometimes you need to be ruthless in order to progress.

I have nothing against Werner, he seems like a nice chap and he certainly puts in the effort when on the pitch but he doesn’t elevate the team and most importantly is a very similar profile to a few of the other players we have. The key point tho is he is taking up a very valuable squad space that in my opinion could and should been given to a more technically talented and dynamic player that could offer more.

Werner was a very useful stop gap but we shouldn’t still be needing stop gaps at this point.

Instead of just assuming I’m being a “prick about Werner” you could have asked “why do you think that?”. The reason why I think there is maybe a chance of that happening is due to him getting moved down the pecking order to the point of wanting to leave due to a lack of consistent game time. It is worth remembering Odebert is primarily a left winger, im sure he will play his fair share on the right but he is a LW plus we have Son and one hopes Moore will get mins as well. Whilst I’m sure Werner will play, probably largely in the cups, i wouldn’t be surprised if his minutes are significantly reduced in comparison to last season. Maybe he’s happy with that but I’m not entirely sure he will be.

I also think there is a large chance that we look for another attacker ether this week or in the Jan window. Who knows maybe we take a gamble on Sancho or someone else being offered around this week. If that were to happen then that would even further reduce his game time.

My issue isn’t with Werner directly, I feel like I have made that pretty clear in my posts about him, it’s about his profile and the balance of our squad. I will support him whilst he is on the pitch and I very much hope he has an excellent season but that doesn’t mean I can’t question the decision to retain him or believe that moving in a different direction would have been the more sensible choice.

 

[Donki]

Kubo would be a really interesting addition, the kid would probably be the fastest in the league. Reminds me a lot of Lennon but is the better finisher. I loved Lennon, but sometimes his feet were too fast for his head.

 

[rossco]

You might be right. However, if we go deep in a few competitions & suffer a few injuries in our attacking 1/3 players we will be certainly glad we have him.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I haven’t once said he’s a bad player, limited yes but not bad, and I have said he was indeed useful last season but this is not last season. We are trying to progress as a team and sometimes you need to be ruthless in order to progress.

I have nothing against Werner, he seems like a nice chap and he certainly puts in the effort when on the pitch but he doesn’t elevate the team and most importantly is a very similar profile to a few of the other players we have. The key point tho is he is taking up a very valuable squad space that in my opinion could and should been given to a more technically talented and dynamic player that could offer more.

Werner was a very useful stop gap but we shouldn’t still be needing stop gaps at this point.

Instead of just assuming I’m being a “prick about Werner” you could have asked “why do you think that?”. The reason why I think there is maybe a chance of that happening is due to him getting moved down the pecking order to the point of wanting to leave due to a lack of consistent game time. It is worth remembering Odebert is primarily a left winger, im sure he will play his fair share on the right but he is a LW plus we have Son and one hopes Moore will get mins as well. Whilst I’m sure Werner will play, probably largely in the cups, i wouldn’t be surprised if his minutes are significantly reduced in comparison to last season. Maybe he’s happy with that but I’m not entirely sure he will be.

I also think there is a large chance that we look for another attacker ether this week or in the Jan window. Who knows maybe we take a gamble on Sancho or someone else being offered around this week. If that were to happen then that would even further reduce his game time.

My issue isn’t with Werner directly, I feel like I have made that pretty clear in my posts about him, it’s about his profile and the balance of our squad. I will support him whilst he is on the pitch and I very much hope he has an excellent season but that doesn’t mean I can’t question the decision to retain him or believe that moving in a different direction would have been the more sensible choice.

The post above yours highlights where I think we are with Werner, it's about Mikey Moore. Personally I think it takes great foresight to get a good quality LW on loan, allowing Moore to develop, we can the reassess at the end of the season without too much hassle. It sends a great message to Moore and the rest of our top youngsters and we have high class temporary cover.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

The post above yours highlights where I think we are with Werner, it's about Mikey Moore. Personally I think it takes great foresight to get a good quality LW on loan, allowing Moore to develop, we can the reassess at the end of the season without too much hassle. It sends a great message to Moore and the rest of our top youngsters and we have high class temporary cover.

I think there are still questions as to Moore’s best position. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be a winger, I feel there is a very high chance he ends up as an attacking midfielder. I think playing him wide in this system might somewhat limit his game, he’s an excellent dribbler but im not entirely sure he has the burst of pace needed for the PL in that role and most importantly I think we would want to make the most of his playmaking ability. Short term yes he probably plays wide as it’s position of less responsibility but medium to long term im not so sure.

Hypothetically tho If we do consider him a winger then I think considering his age he will more likely be considered the natural Son heir rather then one to take the spot of Werner when he leaves next summer.

My overall point tho is about squad balance. Taking the emotion out of it we have

Natural LW - Son, Odebert, Werner, Moore.

Natural RW - Johnson

Whilst Son and Odebert can play right wing they are both more comfortable on the left. That for me is not good squad balance, one natural RW and none are left footed. Now obviously we also have Yang but I think it could take him a while to adjust to the speed of the PL and given his right foot finishing ability I can’t help feel he might also be more effective on the left. Furthermore when you look at the profiles of those players they are all quite similar except for one, Odebert. Son being somewhat of an outlier due to his excellent finishing ability from range.

I have tried to make it clear that I have nothing against Werner but personally I think what Odebert showed in 60 mins highlighted what we have been crying out for on the wings for a long long while. Werner is a useful player but he is just not a dynamic one. He doesn’t offer what we are lacking and we are already at the very limit for squad places.

This isn’t about Werner being bad even tho some seem very desperate to read this into my posts. Being a limited player doesn’t mean being a bad player.

As I’ve said I will 100% support him whilst he’s here as I do with every single man, woman or child who puts on the shirt, that surely goes without question, that is what being a FAN means but for me I struggle with the logic of the move as I think we could have brought in someone else who could have offered more of what we are lacking. I mean we could have brought in a natural right winger which I think we are very much crying out for. I think that is fairly obvious considering our long interest in Neto.

None of this means I won’t back him every min he is here, I have said exactly the same in the Johnson thread, however if one wants to say I’m “putting the boot in” for having doubts about the decision to retain him then that is entirely their prerogative.

 

[G Ron]

I think there are still questions as to Moore’s best position. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be a winger, I feel there is a very high chance he ends up as an attacking midfielder. I think playing him wide in this system might somewhat limit his game, he’s an excellent dribbler but im not entirely sure he has the burst of pace needed for the PL in that role and most importantly I think we would want to make the most of his playmaking ability. Short term yes he probably plays wide as it’s position of less responsibility but medium to long term im not so sure.

Hypothetically tho If we do consider him a winger then I think considering his age he will more likely be considered the natural Son hair rather then one to take the spot of Werner when he leaves next summer.

My overall point tho is about squad balance. Taking the emotion out of it we have

Natural LW - Son, Odebert, Werner, Moore.

Natural RW - Johnson

Whilst Son and Odebert can play right wing they are both more comfortable on the left. That for me is not good squad balance, one natural RW and none are left footed. Now obviously we also have Yang but I think it could take him a while to adjust to the speed of the PL and given his right foot finishing ability I can’t help feel he might also be more effective on the left. Furthermore when you look at the profiles of those players they are all quite similar except for one, Odebert. Son being somewhat of an outlier due to his excellent finishing ability from range.

I have tried to make it clear that I have nothing against Werner but personally I think what Odebert showed in 60 mins highlighted what we have been crying out for on the wings for a long long while. Werner is a useful player but he is just not a dynamic one. He doesn’t offer what we are lacking and we are already at the very limit for squad places.

This isn’t about Werner being bad even tho some seem very desperate to read this into my posts. Being a limited player doesn’t mean being a bad player.

As I’ve said I will 100% support him whilst he’s here as I do with every single man, woman or child who puts on the shirt, that surely goes without question, that is what being a FAN means but for me I struggle with the logic of the move as I think we could have brought in someone else who could have offered more of what we are lacking. I mean we could have brought in a natural right winger which I think we are very much crying out for. I think that is fairly obvious considering our long interest in Neto.

None of this means I won’t back him every min he is here, I have said exactly the same in the Johnson thread, however if one wants to say I’m “putting the boot in” for having doubts about the decision to retain him then that is entirely their prerogative.

Mate, you are by far one of the best posters on this site and add a load of value. No need to justify yourself to anyone. Your assessment is completely fair and I agree with your original statement. Some people just love to have a pop unless you’re constantly gushing over every player - sad really.

 

[ajspurs]

Yeah I agree.

We won't see another added but imagine if we had Odobert and Kubo as these options on the wing.

Johnson will still have his uses but we'd at least be able to call in 2 wingers willing to take on their full backs and open space for others.

I'm still irritated we brought In Werner when we could have done this one. Yes, I know it's a permanent transfer but I think Kubo, Yang, Moore and Odobert all have huge potential, so even if one was to not work out, it's not a huge risk on terms of the spend against a free loan.

Yeah, having two players who like to confidently attack their fullbacks would be massive really.

And I am the same. We have only seen Odobert once, but I still feel like what he's trying to do when on the ball should be the basis of what a winger we're looking at should possess. That willingness to really drive forward.

I think there are still questions as to Moore’s best position. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be a winger, I feel there is a very high chance he ends up as an attacking midfielder. I think playing him wide in this system might somewhat limit his game, he’s an excellent dribbler but im not entirely sure he has the burst of pace needed for the PL in that role and most importantly I think we would want to make the most of his playmaking ability. Short term yes he probably plays wide as it’s position of less responsibility but medium to long term im not so sure.

Hypothetically tho If we do consider him a winger then I think considering his age he will more likely be considered the natural Son hair rather then one to take the spot of Werner when he leaves next summer.

My overall point tho is about squad balance. Taking the emotion out of it we have

Natural LW - Son, Odebert, Werner, Moore.

Natural RW - Johnson

Whilst Son and Odebert can play right wing they are both more comfortable on the left. That for me is not good squad balance, one natural RW and none are left footed. Now obviously we also have Yang but I think it could take him a while to adjust to the speed of the PL and given his right foot finishing ability I can’t help feel he might also be more effective on the left. Furthermore when you look at the profiles of those players they are all quite similar except for one, Odebert. Son being somewhat of an outlier due to his excellent finishing ability from range.

I have tried to make it clear that I have nothing against Werner but personally I think what Odebert showed in 60 mins highlighted what we have been crying out for on the wings for a long long while. Werner is a useful player but he is just not a dynamic one. He doesn’t offer what we are lacking and we are already at the very limit for squad places.

This isn’t about Werner being bad even tho some seem very desperate to read this into my posts. Being a limited player doesn’t mean being a bad player.

As I’ve said I will 100% support him whilst he’s here as I do with every single man, woman or child who puts on the shirt, that surely goes without question, that is what being a FAN means but for me I struggle with the logic of the move as I think we could have brought in someone else who could have offered more of what we are lacking. I mean we could have brought in a natural right winger which I think we are very much crying out for. I think that is fairly obvious considering our long interest in Neto.

None of this means I won’t back him every min he is here, I have said exactly the same in the Johnson thread, however if one wants to say I’m “putting the boot in” for having doubts about the decision to retain him then that is entirely their prerogative.

Absolutely mate, I am the same. For me it's not even strictly about Werner. Yes I don't think he has certain attributes we need when we think about what we sorely lack, but I'd still be happy to have him as an option if space for additional better suited wingers wasn't any sort of issue. It was all about raising the level of our wingers to some sort of substantial level this summer for me personally, and with Yang also coming in January, we've only given ourselves the room to bring in the one player really and like you say, the balance isn't quite there.

 

[lukadownthelane]

I think there are still questions as to Moore’s best position. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he will be a winger, I feel there is a very high chance he ends up as an attacking midfielder. I think playing him wide in this system might somewhat limit his game, he’s an excellent dribbler but im not entirely sure he has the burst of pace needed for the PL in that role and most importantly I think we would want to make the most of his playmaking ability. Short term yes he probably plays wide as it’s position of less responsibility but medium to long term im not so sure.

Hypothetically tho If we do consider him a winger then I think considering his age he will more likely be considered the natural Son heir rather then one to take the spot of Werner when he leaves next summer.

My overall point tho is about squad balance. Taking the emotion out of it we have

Natural LW - Son, Odebert, Werner, Moore.

Natural RW - Johnson

Whilst Son and Odebert can play right wing they are both more comfortable on the left. That for me is not good squad balance, one natural RW and none are left footed. Now obviously we also have Yang but I think it could take him a while to adjust to the speed of the PL and given his right foot finishing ability I can’t help feel he might also be more effective on the left. Furthermore when you look at the profiles of those players they are all quite similar except for one, Odebert. Son being somewhat of an outlier due to his excellent finishing ability from range.

I have tried to make it clear that I have nothing against Werner but personally I think what Odebert showed in 60 mins highlighted what we have been crying out for on the wings for a long long while. Werner is a useful player but he is just not a dynamic one. He doesn’t offer what we are lacking and we are already at the very limit for squad places.

This isn’t about Werner being bad even tho some seem very desperate to read this into my posts. Being a limited player doesn’t mean being a bad player.

As I’ve said I will 100% support him whilst he’s here as I do with every single man, woman or child who puts on the shirt, that surely goes without question, that is what being a FAN means but for me I struggle with the logic of the move as I think we could have brought in someone else who could have offered more of what we are lacking. I mean we could have brought in a natural right winger which I think we are very much crying out for. I think that is fairly obvious considering our long interest in Neto.

None of this means I won’t back him every min he is here, I have said exactly the same in the Johnson thread, however if one wants to say I’m “putting the boot in” for having doubts about the decision to retain him then that is entirely their prerogative.

Agree on Moore. In fact I think it’s why Eze is less of an issue. Think he’ll soon be competing with Maddison.

 

[pedrodelawasp]

Kubo would be a really interesting addition, the kid would probably be the fastest in the league. Reminds me a lot of Lennon but is the better finisher. I loved Lennon, but sometimes his feet were too fast for his head.

I’m not so sure about his pace. He’s not slow, per se, but I don’t think he’d be the fastest in our squad.

 

[Misfit]

I’m not so sure about his pace. He’s not slow, per se, but I don’t think he’d be the fastest in our squad.

He's a quick enough to be dangerous/useful player. Not slow at all but never winning any squad races.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I think the Werner loan is all about Mikey Moore. Werner gives additional experienced cover for a year whilst Moore develops and doesn’t take up a permanent squad place. Don’t see the point in Kubo to be honest, would block Moore’s path

The Werner loan made a lot of sense in the first instance, but makes a whole lot less sense since we signed Solanke and Odobert, and since he seems to have slipped down the pecking order.

Signing Solanke reduced the need to use Son centrally, so he'll play far more games at LW than last season.
Odobert was selected ahead of Werner yesterday, so Werner is presumably 3rd choice currently.
That leaves Mike Moore at 4th choice or lower. Any of Richarlison, Johnson & Kulusevski (anyone else?) could also play LW if needed.
Then Yang arrives in January. His playing time to date has been fairly equally split between LW & RW, so he could cover either position. Even if Ange strongly prefers him on the right, it would make it easier for another predominantly right-sided player (e.g. Johnson) to play out of position on the left.

Unless Ange anticipates Werner being higher up in the pecking order than it currently appears, I would guess his loan was very much a contingency plan.

Like you've said, Kubo would seem unnecessary.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I haven’t once said he’s a bad player, limited yes but not bad, and I have said he was indeed useful last season but this is not last season. We are trying to progress as a team and sometimes you need to be ruthless in order to progress.

I have nothing against Werner, he seems like a nice chap and he certainly puts in the effort when on the pitch but he doesn’t elevate the team and most importantly is a very similar profile to a few of the other players we have. The key point tho is he is taking up a very valuable squad space that in my opinion could and should been given to a more technically talented and dynamic player that could offer more.

Werner was a very useful stop gap but we shouldn’t still be needing stop gaps at this point.

Instead of just assuming I’m being a “prick about Werner” you could have asked “why do you think that?”. The reason why I think there is maybe a chance of that happening is due to him getting moved down the pecking order to the point of wanting to leave due to a lack of consistent game time. It is worth remembering Odebert is primarily a left winger, im sure he will play his fair share on the right but he is a LW plus we have Son and one hopes Moore will get mins as well. Whilst I’m sure Werner will play, probably largely in the cups, i wouldn’t be surprised if his minutes are significantly reduced in comparison to last season. Maybe he’s happy with that but I’m not entirely sure he will be.

I also think there is a large chance that we look for another attacker ether this week or in the Jan window. Who knows maybe we take a gamble on Sancho or someone else being offered around this week. If that were to happen then that would even further reduce his game time.

My issue isn’t with Werner directly, I feel like I have made that pretty clear in my posts about him, it’s about his profile and the balance of our squad. I will support him whilst he is on the pitch and I very much hope he has an excellent season but that doesn’t mean I can’t question the decision to retain him or believe that moving in a different direction would have been the more sensible choice.

Werner and Johnson both have limitations, but at the same time both created a decent number of chances and chipped in with more assists than our other wide options.

Due to their pace, I think both have something to offer coming off the bench, once our opponent starts to tire, even though the general consensus among fans is that neither is good enough for our starting XI.

 

[Hotspurious]

Werner and Johnson both have limitations, but at the same time both created a decent number of chances and chipped in with more assists than our other wide options.

Due to their pace, I think both have something to offer coming off the bench, once our opponent starts to tire, even though the general consensus among fans is that neither is good enough for our starting XI.

Agreed and with a guaranteed 10 cup matches and hopefully many more, there will be a need for competent squad players….unless we’re not interested in winning something. I mean, we’ve done worse in cups than playing Werner, Richy, and Johnson across the front line on a week we’ve played Son, Solanke, and Odobert on the weekend.

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

The Werner loan made a lot of sense in the first instance, but makes a whole lot less sense since we signed Solanke and Odobert, and since he seems to have slipped down the pecking order.

Signing Solanke reduced the need to use Son centrally, so he'll play far more games at LW than last season.
Odobert was selected ahead of Werner yesterday, so Werner is presumably 3rd choice currently.
That leaves Mike Moore at 4th choice or lower. Any of Richarlison, Johnson & Kulusevski (anyone else?) could also play LW if needed.
Then Yang arrives in January. His playing time to date has been fairly equally split between LW & RW, so he could cover either position. Even if Ange strongly prefers him on the right, it would make it easier for another predominantly right-sided player (e.g. Johnson) to play out of position on the left.

Unless Ange anticipates Werner being higher up in the pecking order than it currently appears, I would guess his loan was very much a contingency plan.

Like you've said, Kubo would seem unnecessary.

Agree to an extent but the games are gonna come thick and fast following the international break. Everyone will get a lot of game time, especially if we pick up even half the injuries/suspensions of last year. If he's quality and offers something different like Wilson does, and he's available, then I can see why we would.

 

[FloridaSpur]

Can we all just stop being a prick about Werner?

He added great value last season, is an experienced pro to help the younger players and is likely to contribute again this season. There is zero need for the “why did we sign him”, “loan will get cancelled in Jan”, etc.

People need to just lay off putting the boot into him, Richy and Johnson when they have all contributed under Ange

We have four competitions that we are completing in, Werner will get ample opportunities to play in all four. You only had to see the number of subs that came on in yesterdays game, and if further evidence was needed listen to Ange's post match interview.

We will unfortunately face injuries and suspensions this season and for the first time in years possibly decades we have a bench that can be used seamlessly this season, with quality players.

"why did we sign him" is exactly the reason that we needed strength and quality in depth.

Werner scored two goals and three assists last season, in just ten games that he started in.

Some in here need to get bloody real.

 

[Donki]

I’m not so sure about his pace. He’s not slow, per se, but I don’t think he’d be the fastest in our squad.

I thought he was rapid? Not gonna lie not big on German football?

 

[Misfit]

He'd be among the quicker ones in the squad but he doesn't rely on it, if that makes sense.

He's got all the speed he needs. J League is chock full of them. Quick and can run all day.