Strategic discussion

[AngryBob]

Yesterday, Bergvall got the ball in the middle and all three attackers sprinted forward. They did this despite AZs back 5 all being in position.

Bang on, and this happens all over the pitch, all of the time. We don't play a style where we can pass through teams as everyone is running away from the ball and overcommitting, so we rely on 1 v 1 moments which are incredibly hard to pull off and have a high percentage of a turnover. Then we are left exposed and overcommitted chasing back towards our goal (VDV hamstring anyone). I think that's why our midfield is so ineffective, there's never anyone in there to link up with and create passing lanes and angles to work through, everything is about 1 v 1 on the wing, which is so one-dimensional and predictable.

What I don't understand is that this overcommitment of players into attacking positions as soon as we have possession, which seems to underpin our whole 'philosophy' never actually pays dividends. It's the very definition of schoolboy football, and creates more congestion than opportunity. So often we have multiple players standing next to each other or one long attacking line of about five or six players across the pitch from wing to wing, like a defensive line. Its bonkers, this approach seems to have replaced our high-intensity press and offers nothing from an attacking sense, let alone defensively but who cares about that eh mate.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Bang on, and this happens all over the pitch, all of the time. We don't play a style where we can pass through teams as everyone is running away from the ball and overcommitting, so we rely on 1 v 1 moments which are incredibly hard to pull off and have a high percentage of a turnover. Then we are left exposed and overcommitted chasing back towards our goal (VDV hamstring anyone). I think that's why our midfield is so ineffective, there's never anyone in there to link up with and create passing lanes and angles to work through, everything is about 1 v 1 on the wing, which is so one-dimensional and predictable.

What I don't understand is that this overcommitment of players into attacking positions as soon as we have possession, which seems to underpin our whole 'philosophy' never actually pays dividends. It's the very definition of schoolboy football, and creates more congestion than opportunity. So often we have multiple players standing next to each other or one long attacking line of about five or six players across the pitch from wing to wing, like a defensive line. Its bonkers, this approach seems to have replaced our high-intensity press and offers nothing from an attacking sense, let alone defensively but who cares about that eh mate.

Ange’s stated philosophy, almost a religion, is that he must do things differently, otherwise what’s the point. He’s not going to copy any approach that has proven successful elsewhere, which limits his options! It’s only a matter of time until he starts a game with only 9 outfield players, because everything else has been done before.

 

[rossdapep]

Bang on, and this happens all over the pitch, all of the time. We don't play a style where we can pass through teams as everyone is running away from the ball and overcommitting, so we rely on 1 v 1 moments which are incredibly hard to pull off and have a high percentage of a turnover. Then we are left exposed and overcommitted chasing back towards our goal (VDV hamstring anyone). I think that's why our midfield is so ineffective, there's never anyone in there to link up with and create passing lanes and angles to work through, everything is about 1 v 1 on the wing, which is so one-dimensional and predictable.

What I don't understand is that this overcommitment of players into attacking positions as soon as we have possession, which seems to underpin our whole 'philosophy' never actually pays dividends. It's the very definition of schoolboy football, and creates more congestion than opportunity. So often we have multiple players standing next to each other or one long attacking line of about five or six players across the pitch from wing to wing, like a defensive line. Its bonkers, this approach seems to have replaced our high-intensity press and offers nothing from an attacking sense, let alone defensively but who cares about that eh mate.

Yeah it simply doesn't work.

Some teams do put a row of 5 across the opposition's defensive line but they also have players who can dictate and players drop out with others rotating.

But we don't do that, it's run forward, play forward as quickly as possible but not much thought in moving the opposition around. Unless it's in build up.

I do wonder if the coaches struggle with Ange's demands too. Like do they find it too complicated to work ?

 

[Hotspur33]

Yeah it simply doesn't work.

Some teams do put a row of 5 across the opposition's defensive line but they also have players who can dictate and players drop out with others rotating.

But we don't do that, it's run forward, play forward as quickly as possible but not much thought in moving the opposition around. Unless it's in build up.

I do wonder if the coaches struggle with Ange's demands too. Like do they find it too complicated to work ?

I’ll be honest, I’ve never really understood the idea of Inverted Fullbacks.
In trying to understand it, I’ve watched a few YouTube videos etc and it is said that Inverted fullbacks should help when you lose possession/transitional phases.
We are definitely not seeing that.

I kind of understand it from a point of trying to isolate your wingers against the oppo fullbacks, but then wingers are pretty much extinct now, replaced by wide forwards.
I could understand inverted fullbacks if they are making quick runs into the box against a static low block. The kind of runs that Dani Alves was so good at.

 

[Albertbarich]

I’ll be honest, I’ve never really understood the idea of Inverted Fullbacks.
In trying to understand it, I’ve watched a few YouTube videos etc and it is said that Inverted fullbacks should help when you lose possession/transitional phases.
We are definitely not seeing that.

I kind of understand it from a point of trying to isolate your wingers against the oppo fullbacks, but then wingers are pretty much extinct now, replaced by wide forwards.
I could understand inverted fullbacks if they are making quick runs into the box against a static low block. The kind of runs that Dani Alves was so good at.

I get the principle of an inverted full back but I don’t get the idea of inverting them into an attacking midfield position.

Sure have them invert into a defensive midfield position to bulk up the centre but I don’t want my left back in arguably the most threatening attacking position on the pitch, I want my attacking midfielders there. That’s why they’re attacking midfielders and not defenders.

 

[VoteMe4Prez]

We do have a good squad to keep next season - Vic, Kinsky, Porro (could look at selling for a good offer), Udogie, Danso, Spence, VDV, Sarr, Bergvall, Odobert, Gray, Kulu, Solanke, Moore, Vusckovic and for me Madders being the ones I feel we need to retain with a new coach to manage.

 

[Ribble]

I get the principle of an inverted full back but I don’t get the idea of inverting them into an attacking midfield position.

Sure have them invert into a defensive midfield position to bulk up the centre but I don’t want my left back in arguably the most threatening attacking position on the pitch, I want my attacking midfielders there. That’s why they’re attacking midfielders and not defenders.

I think the problem there is that the AM should still be ahead of them, or in a situation where they aren't be using the inverted player as pivot point to get ahead of them. I don't think that, as a team, the setup is working that way though. A lot of players hold onto the ball too long or are too static off the ball.

 

[werty]

I think the problem there is that the AM should still be ahead of them, or in a situation where they aren't be using the inverted player as pivot point to get ahead of them. I don't think that, as a team, the setup is working that way though. A lot of players hold onto the ball too long or are too static off the ball.

The problem is a lot of the time our midfielders are running out into the full backs positions. So you end up with your full-backs as centre midfielders and your centre midfielders as full-backs, but we aren't moving team arounds and they are easy to pass off. Or the midfielder and full-back are on the same passing line, so it's impossible to get the ball into the midfielder.

 

[Albertbarich]

I think the problem there is that the AM should still be ahead of them, or in a situation where they aren't be using the inverted player as pivot point to get ahead of them. I don't think that, as a team, the setup is working that way though. A lot of players hold onto the ball too long or are too static off the ball.

I think they’re holding onto the ball too long because there isn’t a clear pass for them to make a lot of the time. We look so disorganised at times .

 

[mr ashley]

We do have a good squad to keep next season - Vic, Kinsky, Porro (could look at selling for a good offer), Udogie, Danso, Spence, VDV, Sarr, Bergvall, Odobert, Gray, Kulu, Solanke, Moore, Vusckovic and for me Madders being the ones I feel we need to retain with a new coach to manage.

Ok so let’s hear it for the most impressive replacements then.
Some names mentioned already, with no clear standout candidate

Iraola- good and pressing but not been a possession based team
Frank- adaptable but again, not is a possession based team, possibly a switch in styles back to the conte style of a back 3 (which could suit our squad nonetheless)
Terzic- linked but supposedly flawed and the Dortmund run to the CL final masked flaws (heard that before btw)
Hoeness- getting stuttgart playing attractively, personally don’t know much about his style or whether it could work here
Michel- as hoeness but in La Liga with girona
Inzaghi - linked but feels out of reach. Again, would signal a return to conte style approach
Poch- plays golf at crews hill, some success here before etc etc
Southgate- levy is involved so this is who we’ll end up with
McKenna- back to back promotions with Ipswich, former player and coach. Cheap. They beat us at home in front of levy

 

[Stamford]

Ok so let’s hear it for the most impressive replacements then.
Some names mentioned already, with no clear standout candidate

Iraola- good and pressing but not been a possession based team
Frank- adaptable but again, not is a possession based team, possibly a switch in styles back to the conte style of a back 3 (which could suit our squad nonetheless)
Terzic- linked but supposedly flawed and the Dortmund run to the CL final masked flaws (heard that before btw)
Hoeness- getting stuttgart playing attractively, personally don’t know much about his style or whether it could work here
Michel- as hoeness but in La Liga with girona
Inzaghi - linked but feels out of reach. Again, would signal a return to conte style approach
Poch- plays golf at crews hill, some success here before etc etc
Southgate- levy is involved so this is who we’ll end up with
McKenna- back to back promotions with Ipswich, former player and coach. Cheap. They beat us at home in front of levy

It's really not a great list!

 

[Albertbarich]

Ok so let’s hear it for the most impressive replacements then.
Some names mentioned already, with no clear standout candidate

Iraola- good and pressing but not been a possession based team
Frank- adaptable but again, not is a possession based team, possibly a switch in styles back to the conte style of a back 3 (which could suit our squad nonetheless)
Terzic- linked but supposedly flawed and the Dortmund run to the CL final masked flaws (heard that before btw)
Hoeness- getting stuttgart playing attractively, personally don’t know much about his style or whether it could work here
Michel- as hoeness but in La Liga with girona
Inzaghi - linked but feels out of reach. Again, would signal a return to conte style approach
Poch- plays golf at crews hill, some success here before etc etc
Southgate- levy is involved so this is who we’ll end up with
McKenna- back to back promotions with Ipswich, former player and coach. Cheap. They beat us at home in front of levy

Simeone is my dream, I really feel like this squad is set up for him.

Could we tempt Alonso? Sounds mad but if Ancelotti stays at Madrid it’s not like he isn’t already massively punching above his weight with Leverkuson.

From the YouTube videos I’ve watched and listening to tacticos I’d be happy with Hoeness, Michel and Farioli.

Also I’m paying attention to Juve. If they sack Motta I’d like him here.

if we’re talking premier league I think Frank would be an uninspiring appointment but it could also be very smart. He hasn’t always played this sort of football, it appears to me he uses the teams strengths and goes from there. I think the Iraola and Poch sort of football is becoming outdated, with all the games now being played , football will move away from it .

I also like McKenna and Carrick but neither of them are ready.

I’m not wedded to formations , in fact I don’t agree with the notion we need to play a 433 /4231 because our wide options are pants and I’d rather Sonny and or Johnson are played closer to the goal. As long as the coach wants to keep the ball on the ground, pass and move and wants to attack where possible , then im happy.