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Spurs Youth Thread 20/21

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I mean with Lampard it might change, but Chelsea's youth farming isn't good for youth development, in fact it's exactly the opposite you get put on that conveyor belt and end up staying there often until your mid-20s, going through the exhaustion of going club to club without ever having the stability and structure to help you grow, settle and produce your best work.

I'd say when looking at Chelsea's youth, there is a lot of talent there, a lot of it wasted and a lot of youth players hate it. Josh McEachran, Piazon and Panzo have all publically complained about Chelsea's system, and even Andros Townsend has mentioned how being loaned out all the time affected his mental health etc.


Chelsea is really not a model to look at. When you look at previously special talents in Baker and Piazon, they haven't moved on, still bieng farmed out on loan, having to re adapt, reintegrate, prove themselves at a club rinse repeat. No stable life, home, or friend groups. That's a lot to ask out people and it can't be good for your development. Baker is 25, three years ago people thought he could contribute to a top level team, before that he was super hyped. Now he is just going through the motions. Piazon was also very hyped, he is 26 still reluctantly with Chelsea. This guy was getting La liga loans 8 years ago, at 18, he hasn't moved on from that. But how can he? The loan system makes it very hard to really develop and see career progression. It has its limits.

Obviously I agree, nothing is perfect. I'm just saying that there is more chance of better developement and opportunity at Chelsea than Spurs. I don't think that's controversial.

You mention Piazon but he also says he doesn't regret signing for Chelsea and when you ask 'but how can he?' well I'd also question his decision making. In 2015 he signed a 3 year contract after having already been on 3/4 loans. At 23 he had a year left on his contract and decided to sign up for 2 more years in 2017 , and then he extended it at the end of last year for another year. How can that be Chelsea's fault? I got annoyed when KWP signed another contract until he was 22, as he missed so much football as a result, and naively believed he'd get a fair crack at the time but I can't blame Spurs for offering it to him to protect their asset. He then managed to get out having played barely any football.

And then there's the story McEvoy put out about Spurs not letting him go, so I wouldn't say Chelsea are doing anything bad, but at least getting them good loans. Piazon should've been more like MV, realise you're not getting a chance and accept a year loss of development and leave.

Tanganga and Skipp.

And, in addition to Winks, let’s not forget that it wasn’t that long ago that another Harry broke through. And, frankly, he pisses over every other player to have come through any other academy in England over the past decade.

Skipp has had even less chances than Tanganga. Skipp is in a more similar place to Connor Gallagher. I mentioned Tanganga as Mourinho at least had him starting in the PL prior to his injury, with the apparent intention to really include him.

Skipp made a couple of cup appearances. Loads of clubs have handed academy players cup appearances that I didn't add onto that list.

Obviously there's Kane, but that was 5 years ago. A year is long in football and a even longer in a academy football. A year wasted not bringing through a talented 18/19 year old into the first team, makes the 14 year old turning 15 think they're not giving them a chance. Another year goes by of no loan or barley cup minutes, suddenly that 14 year old is 16 and thinking about joining the academy, and have decision to commit to a club where top players aren't getting chances.

It's weird that people won't say Chelsea is a great place for top academy players to come through despite having 5 come through in their first team last year, but cling onto the fact that we bring through top quality players because we brought through one 5 years ago.
 
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IGSpur

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Tanganga has been injured literally since June. He's been confirmed unavailable in every team news article this season.

I agree with this, but I can also understand Dog's pessimism from Mourinho's history and the general nature of players coming through in the PL. I hope everyone is right and Tanganga is back getting chances when he is fit
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I liked Lavinier whenever I saw him for England, but he got overtaken by Lamptey and of course they had James ahead of him.

Not sure why we've signed two RBs. Maybe eye them up for the year and see what happens with Aurier. Ferguson looks very useful and Lavinier definitely has ability, so I guess they compete to see what happens at the end of the season. Never seen Omole though
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
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I agree with this, but I can also understand Dog's pessimism from Mourinho's history and the general nature of players coming through in the PL. I hope everyone is right and Tanganga is back getting chances when he is fit
And I completely agree with you but I felt it had to be pointed out that Dog was arguing from the wrong premise.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Devine playing centre back?

No. They put the players in number order so he would've been holding.

I keep getting confused but I always thought Michael Craig, was the better one who played CM/DM/CB and captained Scotland. Facially I was right but guess I was getting the name wrong
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Cassanova scores.

Now there's a novelty.... :cautious:

He's going to be moved about so much this season. Proper utility player but is actually really decent. If they're gonna do that I hope they just move him around midfield and don't put him in defence. Let him develop some sort of specialism
 

rabbikeane

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Mar 29, 2005
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Japhet also looks to be our primary back up at RB if Serge was to go last week of the window. I don’t know if that’s a position he’s comfortable in, but he’ll get games I think.

At senior level he's more established as a full back than a centre back. I'd say we haven't seen enough of him in the middle to know if he's ready for it.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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obviously we can always do better but given what we've seen over the past five years then i'm relatively content with how things are going. if poch was still here then i'm pretty sure this is what we'd be seeing:

skipp - highly unlikely he'd have been allowed out on loan, would have spent another season playing half a dozen games

parrott - virtually zero chance he'd have been loaned out, a season training with the first team and putting out cones

tanganga - doubtful he'd still even be here, again practically zero chance he'd have been thrown in against liverpool and the subsequent run of games which resulted in him staying and signing a new deal. not sure what happens to him now but at least he's played and has put his name out there

cirkin - would have spent the year training but not playing at any level, at least he's currently still turning out for the u23s except for today - maybe something happening there?

white - as above but played today


i don't really have any complaints so far, personally i think skipp could have contributed this season but if he ends up playing 40 games for norwich then that's still a win. tanganga is an iffy one as he's been injured for the past few months but i'm pretty sure that jose would only keep him around if he had the intention of actually using him. ideally cirkin would get a loan but at 18 it's hardly now or never, even if he spent the next two years at the club he'd still be ahead of where poch would have him.

the only loser in all of this [albeit not a spurs youth] is sessegnon. poch would have given him every chance to succeed given he was his signing, whereas to jose he is just another kid that needs playing time to develop and seemingly he can't give him that currently. he should get a loan though and will hopefully come back ready to contribute in the future.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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talking of former academy players it's weird how there's been nothing on tariq hinds since he left? think a move abroad would suit him given his size.

also just saw this on reo griffiths:

Lyon’s former Tottenham striker Ref Griffiths, 20, is also blossoming in France as the Ligue 1 club have made him captain of the B team, rebuffed approaches from England to take him on loan and told him they want him to push for the first team.

Griffiths has scored five goals in six games this season and the club - which has an excellent record of youth development - have been impressed with his work rate and professionalism.

hadn't heard much from him for a while so kind of assumed he wasn't doing much but glad to hear that's not the case.

tob started for stoke at the weekend too so that year group are at least now starting to find their way it seems.
 

jondesouza

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Oct 18, 2004
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Sorting through some old papers earlier today found an old team sheet from FA Youth Cup 4th Round vs Portsmouth -2010 I think we lost 1-0 a memorable goal by Ciftci who want on to play for Celtic I think 10 of the Spurs side wnat on to play league football 3 are full internationals and 5 made first team appearances

Spurs Team

Jamie Butler
Jesse Walter Lassen
Tom Carroll
Jake Nicholson
Nathan Byrne
Steve Caulker
Ryan Fredericks
Dean Parrett
Harry Kane
John Bostock
Paul Jose Mpoku
subs
Jordan Archer
Olumide Durijaiye
Paul Mcbride
Kudos Oyenuga
Zaine Francis Angol

Did anyone see the Jesse Waller Lassen goal for Hashtag in the FA Cup?
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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talking of former academy players it's weird how there's been nothing on tariq hinds since he left? think a move abroad would suit him given his size.

also just saw this on reo griffiths:



hadn't heard much from him for a while so kind of assumed he wasn't doing much but glad to hear that's not the case.

tob started for stoke at the weekend too so that year group are at least now starting to find their way it seems.

I did a little search on Hinds too. I wonder what's happened, he could've dropped out of football altogether as there would definitely be clubs offering him contracts unless there's personal issues of some sort. A kid with his talent should not go to waste.

Great news on Griffiths. I was a bit 'meh' when he left and relatively speaking I don't think he's the biggest loss as there were players better but if he came through at Lyon it would just prove what we've been saying all along. You do get the feeling some fans, don't want these kids to succeed as I remember about 2 or 3 months after he left people were tracking him and posting that he wasn't scoring. Like all our signings people just need time, before making decisions on them. One thing I believe if he doesn't make it there, it will be because he isn't good enough as Lyon will give him a chance if he is.

And I've been monitoring TOB. Think Stoke were in a cup the other day and then I watched a league game of his. Man it was boring, I don't know why I put myself through it but was intrigued to see how he was getting on there. Still don't think Stoke is really the place I would see him playing at, but I'm just happy he's getting games, and I know a few England youth watchers are happy he is starting to play some regular football too. Worth keeping an eye on.

And Skipp was again apparently Norwich's only player at the weekend haha. So annoyed he isn't here with our congestion but better guaranteed games than odds and ends and great to see Japh back on the field. I liked his little tussle with Mount and him consoling him at the end. It's why I don't get really tribal with the academy lot as they're all just mates who've I've watched grow up playing together. Their age group had some great games, like the back to back games against Germany. The game we won 2-1 in England scored two quality goals. Just glad to see some of the boys from that team on the field together for top PL clubs
 
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