Spurs Youth - 2019/20

VegasII

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Anyone else we can promote? It’s a pot of free transfers if they’re good enough.
 

IGSpur

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Can anybody fill me in about Cirkin? Style/temp etc.

Any vids as I've not found much.
As @edson said he is probably most similar to Davies. He is very mature, and takes responsibility from LB. He knows he is a senior player in our u18s and he isn't a swashbuckling LB but a very sensible one, in that he knows how to defend well, but he makes the right decision about when to go, and when he decides to go, his ability in the final third is excellent. He actually has found himself in CM or no 10 position and is the type of player that has the ability/composure to take the ball on the half-turn in these areas and link up player. Alternatively he can stay on the outside and get a ball in or do the ole Baines underlap. His close control is also good, he's no afraid to use his right food when needed either.

I'd argue he's one of the most well-rounded FBs we've had but an excellent player. So whereas I always said Brown was equally good in attack and defence and often underrated by many, I think Cirkin is a better defender and better attacker than Brown but now KWP good. As people know I was a big fan of his u16s and then he was more skillful attacker but has just developed really well.
 

IGSpur

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Anyone else we can promote? It’s a pot of free transfers if they’re good enough.
Depends what position. I have said for absolute ages, Tanganga's age group and the year below have the most talented players we've ever produced. Granted a lot have left now, but there is still plenty of talent still here. The issue is none were developed or trusted under previous management and so everyone assumes they've now suddenly become terrible. Tanganga was literally in this position over 6 months ago, behind Eyoma and Dinzeyi. Suddenly two starts in a row and a bit of faith and all of a sudden people are now saying he's better than Sanchez, when 2 years ago people were moaning because I said he was better than Wilmot, and that's despite the stagnation. To clarify Wilmot could go on to be a great player, and better than Tanganga, the point being it's all so fickle and giving opportunities to our players is the way forward before signing and looking elsewhere. Re: Tanganga, I don't know how he didn't get games beforehand, one managers trash is another's treasure. It's why I kept saying just because one manager doesn't play them, it doesn't mean they're not 'good enough' another manager may not see it in the same way.

Skipp is another good enough and seemingly overtaken by Tanganga. I've said this before, now some people are happy to give Tanganga a chance at RB, despite playing there about 3 times in his life but Hinds and KWP are considerably better RBs. Their issue though is as modern day RBs, they're more risky as they get forward whereas Tanganga is just a CB so can be trusted at the back and then occasionally got forward. Rather than look at two players who are considerably better than him and thinking I wonder how they'd get on, people still would rather sign Aarons a player previously behind Hinds in the England pecking order than give him a chance. Football is very strange. Either way well done Mourinho stil chuffed for Tanganga, let's hope he keeps it up and when the inevitable lapses come he isn't thrown under the bus. Could be a proper CB for Spurs if he continues to develop.
 
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Matecheck

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Wonder where all the if-they're-good-enough-poch-will-play-them-if-he-doesn't-they're-not-good-enough posts/posters are?
 

IGSpur

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Wonder where all the if-they're-good-enough-poch-will-play-them-if-he-doesn't-they're-not-good-enough posts/posters are?
Most likely at the specific time Poch was here he wasn't good enough. Unless Mourinho's coaching of young players is so good he has suddenyl got him to first team standard who knows? Mourinho must have gotten him to an 8/10 player before his debut somehow. I'm just pleased Mournho has rewarded a good performance with another game rather than 6 months

In truth it's the academy coaches that have got him to the standard he is. As always the gap between academy to first team is not as big as people believe.

Should also say reading the Tanganga thread people don't half lose their heads here. One minute RB is a massive problem and a player with 3 PL MOTMs in that position isn't good enough but now a player who's played there a total of 5 times in his life including his first team appearances is the answer to the problem. A CB moving to RB will always appeal to fans and make them relax more as they are natural defenders first and are circumspect in their risk taking. Tanganga's first thought was not to go forward. Actual RBs as they are not CBs aren't as strong defensively as CBs and are bigger risk takers going forward. It's a wonder why we even produce them. Good luck Cirkin getting a chance though.
 

chinaman

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I think one limiting factor for Poch was that whereas Levy wasn't prepared to spend big, he demanded top-4 finishes; thereby reducing the risks Poch could take for youngsters to make mistakes. Whereas the Chelscums and Shittys have so many stars that they could carry the lapses one or two youngsters could make and still have sufficient quality to win.

As Poch says in his book, Spurs' results are the sum of the parts and if only two are not performing, the whole team suffers.
 

IGSpur

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I think one limiting factor for Poch was that whereas Levy wasn't prepared to spend big, he demanded top-4 finishes; thereby reducing the risks Poch could take for youngsters to make mistakes. Whereas the Chelscums and Shittys have so many stars that they could carry the lapses one or two youngsters could make and still have sufficient quality to win.

As Poch says in his book, Spurs' results are the sum of the parts and if only two are not performing, the whole team suffers.
Yes but he also had everyone believing that if an academy player was better than a first teamer or 'good enough' he would play them and that he was brave enough himself to take the risks. Many people in this thread questioned whether he would take the risks and the response was Poch doesn't care about age or experience and why would he purposefully not choose a player, even if they were better than what he had or good enough for first team. It's clear to me he didn't want to take risks or trust academy players as much as he claimed to.

What gets me is I will never understand why AVB was painted as this anti-academy and Poch always pro-academy, and even Mourinho is seen as anti-academy. I don't know what he did even after his 5 years that left people believing he was more pro-academy than any other manager we've had. I read some fan go now Mourinho is in Skipp will need to go on loan as he won't get a chance, like Poch didn't put Wanyama ahead of him after a long injury lay off. It is very likely no other academy player will get a chance but I will never get the slant placed on each manager.
 

eddiebailey

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Seems to me that every manager who comes in likes to make a statement by unearthing a homegrown gem: Jol with Kelly; Ramos with O’Hara; Redknapp with - okay forget Redknapp; AVB with Townsend; Sherwood with Bentaleb; Pochettino with Mason; Mourinho with Tanganga.

Then the pressure for results mounts and along with it the demands on the chequebook, and the Academy becomes overlooked.
 

coys200

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When is Parrott contract actually up. Isn’t it 18 months still ? I know he can’t sign long term till feb 4th when he’s 18.
 

edson

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As @edson said he is probably most similar to Davies. He is very mature, and takes responsibility from LB. He knows he is a senior player in our u18s and he isn't a swashbuckling LB but a very sensible one, in that he knows how to defend well, but he makes the right decision about when to go, and when he decides to go, his ability in the final third is excellent. He actually has found himself in CM or no 10 position and is the type of player that has the ability/composure to take the ball on the half-turn in these areas and link up player. Alternatively he can stay on the outside and get a ball in or do the ole Baines underlap. His close control is also good, he's no afraid to use his right food when needed either.

I'd argue he's one of the most well-rounded FBs we've had but an excellent player. So whereas I always said Brown was equally good in attack and defence and often underrated by many, I think Cirkin is a better defender and better attacker than Brown but now KWP good. As people know I was a big fan of his u16s and then he was more skillful attacker but has just developed really well.
Think we are all hoping that Dennis Cirkin can be better than Ben Davies in the long run, I like Davies but not as a starter and I do not think he is not the answer to LB full time.

If Cirkin and Davies was to have a race now it might be closer than most of us would think but we have to remember Cirkin is just 18 and by the time he hits 20 he should blow Davies out of the water as they say.

I would compare Cirkin to Ben Chilwell who does a bit of everything but I am hoping by the time he hits 20 he has more power and pace than Ben Davies.
 

IGSpur

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Seems to me that every manager who comes in likes to make a statement by unearthing a homegrown gem: Jol with Kelly; Ramos with O’Hara; Redknapp with - okay forget Redknapp; AVB with Townsend; Sherwood with Bentaleb; Pochettino with Mason; Mourinho with Tanganga.

Then the pressure for results mounts and along with it the demands on the chequebook, and the Academy becomes overlooked.
Redknapp is a weird one to judge, as he used the Europa League as an opportunity to just play a team of youth he didn't care about, which tbf probably gave them some expereince but like you I wouldn't say he brought anyone through. As I said about AVB he got this reputation but in his TWO years with us he brought through Townsend AND Caulker, Sherwood in his year had Bentaleb AND Kane, Poch has Mason AND Winks. The first had 2 seasons, the second 1 season, and the third, 5 seasons, and only one is considered a specilaist at bringing through academy players.

I don't disagree with your second point but I disagree with it in practice especially when our manager at the time was meant to place faith in youth. If the pressure rises, trust them if they haven't done anything wrong. Why should they make way for underperforming experienced players. E.g. KWP and his MOTM displays. Even this season people said they think he's unreliable, but he was part of a team and our other RBs were just as unreliable. If he was rewarded with consistent games who knows what would've happened.
 

IGSpur

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Think we are all hoping that Dennis Cirkin can be better than Ben Davies in the long run, I like Davies but not as a starter and I do not think he is not the answer to LB full time.

If Cirkin and Davies was to have a race now it might be closer than most of us would think but we have to remember Cirkin is just 18 and by the time he hits 20 he should blow Davies out of the water as they say.

I would compare Cirkin to Ben Chilwell who does a bit of everything but I am hoping by the time he hits 20 he has more power and pace than Ben Davies.
I think stylistically he is like Ben Davies, but I definitely feel he has the potential to be a better LB. But remember if he reaches Ben Davies' level he would have come good for us imo. That is a very good standard to reach. If he can go onto be more Ben Chilwell even better.
 

IGSpur

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As I tend to do when someone comes through, I like to take it back. This is one of the first games I remember seeing him, looking back, as I didn't really know who the players were at this point, I wasn't on this forum then I don't think but a mere lurker
(no.5 LCB)

And the following season, this was on here. I remember Spursidol posting it
(no.5 RCB)

Again we wouldn't have known names until I think the following season when we started piecing them together. But still interesting to look at
 

loaderspurs

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Redknapp is a weird one to judge, as he used the Europa League as an opportunity to just play a team of youth he didn't care about, which tbf probably gave them some expereince but like you I wouldn't say he brought anyone through. As I said about AVB he got this reputation but in his TWO years with us he brought through Townsend AND Caulker, Sherwood in his year had Bentaleb AND Kane, Poch has Mason AND Winks. The first had 2 seasons, the second 1 season, and the third, 5 seasons, and only one is considered a specilaist at bringing through academy players.

I don't disagree with your second point but I disagree with it in practice especially when our manager at the time was meant to place faith in youth. If the pressure rises, trust them if they haven't done anything wrong. Why should they make way for underperforming experienced players. E.g. KWP and his MOTM displays. Even this season people said they think he's unreliable, but he was part of a team and our other RBs were just as unreliable. If he was rewarded with consistent games who knows what would've happened.
Completely agree and have been banging this drum to those who will listen for ages. Mou has done more for youth development than Poche did in his last 2 years at the club. OOC, who do you credit for bringing through other youth players that played first team games for Spurs and made it in the PL or championship, like Livermore and Carroll. Was Jake also AVB?
 
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IGSpur

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Completely agree and have banging this drum to those who will listen for ages. Mou has done more for youth development than Poche did in his last 2 years at the club. OOC, who do you credit for bringing through other youth players that played first team games for Spurs and made it in the PL or championship, like Livermore and Carroll. Was Jake also AVB?
I completely forgot about Livermore but I'm fairly sure he was playing regular PL football under Redknapp so I'd consider Redknapp to have. Carroll I don't think was ever brought through by anyone He was on loan and then made some sub PL appearances under a couple of minutes and started some EL games under both managers. His development came from his loans primarily and goes down to the academy and loan management at the time.

I'm very aware many people will disagree with what 'brought through' means or how to measure it, but I think in my head hte simplest way, is is the player a genuine consideration for the first team. Is he regularly rotated in, if there is an injury will he be the first person to step in, or will adjustments be made around the squad before he might get his chance. I think any sensible person can tell if a player is trusted by a manager or not.

In terms of actual numbers, percentage of minutes played in a PL season possibly? I use PL as that is the serious competition where if you're trusted you will play.

Total number of minutes played like 4/500 minutes or something but then, how do you interpret that. 4 games over a season. Isn't much trust. But if you play 5 in a row and it gets disrupted for some reason I think most would have considered you a part of the first team.
 

he is you know!

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Think we are all hoping that Dennis Cirkin can be better than Ben Davies in the long run, I like Davies but not as a starter and I do not think he is not the answer to LB full time.

If Cirkin and Davies was to have a race now it might be closer than most of us would think but we have to remember Cirkin is just 18 and by the time he hits 20 he should blow Davies out of the water as they say.

I would compare Cirkin to Ben Chilwell who does a bit of everything but I am hoping by the time he hits 20 he has more power and pace than Ben Davies.
Cirkin is 17, will be 18 in April.
 

eddiebailey

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Completely agree and have banging this drum to those who will listen for ages. Mou has done more for youth development than Poche did in his last 2 years at the club. OOC, who do you credit for bringing through other youth players that played first team games for Spurs and made it in the PL or championship, like Livermore and Carroll. Was Jake also AVB?
I seem to recall that Jake and Danny Rose both started to get chances at the end of Harry’s reign. In fairness to Harry at the outset of his time he had a big clear out of the reserves to make way for the next group coming through, whom he rated, but his approach to developing them was hit and miss at best. I remember Graham and Pleat (second time around) having similar clear outs of reserve deadwood.
 

Anuth

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As I tend to do when someone comes through, I like to take it back. This is one of the first games I remember seeing him, looking back, as I didn't really know who the players were at this point, I wasn't on this forum then I don't think but a mere lurker
(no.5 LCB)

And the following season, this was on here. I remember Spursidol posting it
(no.5 RCB)

Again we wouldn't have known names until I think the following season when we started piecing them together. But still interesting to look at

That's not Tanganga. that's Saphet Tanlanla

336974_271680412901664_743859491_o (1).jpg
 

IGSpur

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That's not Tanganga. that's Saphet Tanlanla

View attachment 61438
I am 99.9% sure that's wrong. Riga are well known for misspelling or not understanding names. They've done the same with Tsaroulla, they once called

They labelled Eyoma as Stavitski Timoo a Finnish player, still playing football http://www.rigacup.lv/winter/riga-cup-2014-u-15-have-ended/

And Oliver Skipp as Skurp Olinev http://www.rigacup.lv/winter/riga-cup-2014-u-14-have-finished/

Very annoying at the time as it took us until a year later to realise their mistake and figure out who they were.

There will be no other Saphet Tanlanla anywhere, and if some Latvians managed to misidentify a black player with a finnish player, it wouldn't surprise me if they've mixed up two black CBs pictures from the same club, popular media still do it to this day.

Unless of course you were joking, then this paragraph was for nothing but so hard to tell over the net
 
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