Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[guru]

I don't know much about Roles. Specifically, what is his best position? He's not a CF, as far as I can tell. Is he more of an AM type?

Also, if he's tearing it up in League 2, might he be recalled in January, and then sent out on loan to a Championship team, to further his development? Or, is the idea to keep him with Cambridge for the whole season, and then loan him out next season to a team and league that's the next level up.

He's fairly young, right? 20? Also could be one of those players that blossoms a little bit later. EG: Mason didn't really breakthrough to our first team until he was about 22, right?

I do like the fact that he's gone on loan and has taken it seriously as a chance to hone his craft and learn from professionals in a lower league, who don't have the same luxurious trappings as a PL team. I feel sometimes you can get one or two promising younglings who go out on a loan to a team three leagues lower, and then think it's beneath them, and therefore show little mental fortitude and professional application. It would seem that young Jack is taking this chance really seriously. So, regardless of whether or not he breaks through with us, it's clear to see that he has a potentially good professional career ahead of him.

I follow a few of our youth , and I believe Roles has played in numerous positions from a very young age , but plays mainly a centre middfielder , even though we moved him about to compensate other players who were deemed better then him . I haven’t known too many youngsters who have left us and gone on loan and made as big an impact on a club as he has . I think he is a late bloomer , and many will be surprised with what’s to come from this young man . I’m hearing Cambridge fans are not only impressed with his football , but also his character , and as you say comes across as a true professional . By the sounds of it he’s scored goals , won a man of the match , won fans player of the month and possibly a goal of the month award , and he’s only been on loan for 3 months . I wouldn’t be writing him off just yet . Imagine if we loaned more of our youth out , this could just be the beginning if Roles can set a precedent .

 

[IGSpur]

I know a lot of you keep up to date on the youth, so one question; are they all really that bad? If your a youth player and watching the current team you have to believe you can breakthrough.
If no one is capable of making the first team then why not just scrap it or do what other do a lot and buy young players?

Firstly no they're not that bad. All we need is one player from each age group to be good enough and we do, we always have, however most people have this unshakeable belief that the manager will always give a chance to an academy player if they are 'good enough' and he hasn't so apparently they're not. And I agree with you, I once suggested that if we aren't producing players for the first team or developing them why not just shut down the academy if it's not working but was told I was overreacting.

Any I thought I'd comment again, on the recent happenings at Chelsea as I think it only proves my point from the last 3/4 years, about cream will always rise and managers will always play you if you are good enough bla bla bla. Even as Chelsea go on their 6th straight win and also doing OK in the CL, Mourinho still is questioning them. Despite what we are witnessing he is still basically saying he would not be playing these players even though we can clearly see they are good enough. It means nothing, all that matters is what the manager thinks and surprise surprise a manager can be wrong. I and others have been called deluded, arrogant and all sorts, for daring to believe a academy players can play first. And we clearly know now that some managers will not. Before people bought the whole, Poch is some academy developing prodigy and most still do. They'd rather double down than possibly consider he's no better than AVB which is what I said a long time ago. As others have said, we had 2 players in the u21s starting lineup in 2017 and are the only club to not have them playing regular first team football, no doubt we were unlucky and had the two players with attitude or work rate problems.

I'm not going to completely cover old ground. But how can people not look at what is happening at Chelsea and realise the whole, so and so hasn't gone on to be world class yet so no loss there, argument holds any weight. They are currently showing how it should be done. They have 5/6 academy players in the first team, none of them may go on to be world class even with these opportunities but to deny they have massively contributed and added value, via money saved or money to be made can't be denied. And yet, if Mourinho was still with them, the chances are none of them would have played for a club better than Chelsea as their development would eventually have stagnated after multiple loans. Similarly, despite championing Winks from 19 as being good enough for our first team, I have never once thought he had the ability to be world class, I have only ever thought his ceiling was a regular for a top 6 club, and I don't think he'd ever play for a club better than us, and yet again we can't deny he has added value through saving money or will make us money. Why do people always need to measure whether an academy player is successful based on whether they go on to be world class, when the only argument ever made, is said academy player could contribute to the first team, and possibly be world class, whilst saving us money or making us money that we can allocate in more urgent areas. It's like people are being purposefully facetious just to avoid ever slightly criticising Poch when the only ever argument being made is about how the club can be improved. Rarely do any of our signings end up being world class and that doesn't stop us from shelling out money, and some of our most successful signings never ended up world class so never understand why it's a yardstick used to judge whether an academy player could have been any use, even when they're development is completely stifled.

Staying on Chelsea and Abraham in particular, just as he brings up a little marker of matching Rashfords highest goal tally in a PL season. I have said for ages, that jumping on the latest fad was always nonsense; and people hyped up any young player who got an opportunity as being the best in their age group. As people were unaware were plenty of other talents better about who very likely would never get the chance. Abraham may go on to bomb but he is perfect example. Even when Rashford was at his peak and had just come through, I told people Abraham was better. I said in 2017 after everyone was cussing Abraham because of a poor Euro u21s that he was England's 2nd best striker after Kane and always said, should he get his opportunity at Chelsea he will likely go on to prove he was better than Rashford and subsequently the other strikers getting hype at that time like Embolo, hopefully he continues in this vain for England's sake. And I didn't even watch Abraham as much as I watched our own academy. I would loved to have signed him but it's not like he would have come through here. The same way when I said Sancho was better than Sessegnon despite, Sancho never playing first team football and Sessegnon banging goals. I don't watch these kids one off, I watch them or have watched them loads of times, and it is so frustrating to see how much we have wasted and continue to waste. As I have always said, people rate the PL way too highly and underrate the academy players. You've got guys like Longstaff, Winks, Rice and McTominay easily handling it, and still have this belief you have to be some incredible talent to crack it. KWP has 3 motms remember, and I was told it was a case of earning your spot and all this nonsense and a player that has around 5 red cards and given away 3 penalties still got opportunities ahead of him. It's actually baffling. These are highly coached highly talented players. This false notion that the PL is hard to crack has got people believing anyone coming through is a special talent and wanting to throw big money and players. AWB goes for 70m and then Reece James comes along and proves he is better anyway.

I actually used to pull my hair out watching all of this unfold but fortunately I care a lot less now to get worked up. I just watched the academy games in peace, just enjoying the standard of play without really caring if they make it anymore, but I confess I am pleased in Chelsea's case to see these players getting chances and hope it ripples through other clubs...fat chance. Just hope they don't do better than us, and we learn to use ours. I remember it used to be, we can't play them as we are trying to quality for the CL, then we can't play them as we are a CL club, then we can't play them as we are now trying for the PL, now I wonder what the excuse will be. I guess none of our academy players' are the 8s they require to be to get into club sitting in the bottom half.

 

[IGSpur]

I follow a few of our youth , and I believe Roles has played in numerous positions from a very young age , but plays mainly a centre middfielder , even though we moved him about to compensate other players who were deemed better then him . I haven’t known too many youngsters who have left us and gone on loan and made as big an impact on a club as he has . I think he is a late bloomer , and many will be surprised with what’s to come from this young man . I’m hearing Cambridge fans are not only impressed with his football , but also his character , and as you say comes across as a true professional . By the sounds of it he’s scored goals , won a man of the match , won fans player of the month and possibly a goal of the month award , and he’s only been on loan for 3 months . I wouldn’t be writing him off just yet . Imagine if we loaned more of our youth out , this could just be the beginning if Roles can set a precedent .

I wouldn't hold your breath. People forget Pritchard made L1 TOTY followed by Championship TOTY. When Maddison did that at the same age everyone wanted to sign him. I know Pritchard had a little hard luck on the injury side, but if our managers actual behaviour matched his reputation you would've thought a little bit of faith would've been placed in him.

I don't see Roles getting any sort of chance, but he has more than enough ability to be a PL player. Good thing is he is getting game time, so when he moves on he may be an attractive prospect and continue his development. Brown is doing well, I don't see why Roles or any of the others wouldn't either. I see at least one of the 99 age group being a PL if they get to develop.

 

[DCSPUR]

there is a moment here for Levy to help us turn the corner.
1. Bring in a DofF who does not have an interest in being 1st team player but can coordinate our ins and outs for first team, youth etc.
2. When we get rid of 6-8 1st teamers over the next 2 windows, replace with 2-3 high quality signings and more youth to round out the squad
3. Tell Poch his next 5 year plan is to have us win a trophy, feature in top 4 and do so with 4+ youth in first team and 10+ in squad...that's the job
4. If he wants it - sign a new contract and get everyone publicly on the same page re: these 3 key points

 

[beats1]

So why doesnt McDermott or someone else say something to Poch?

I guess like every other person, he wants to continue to his job. Be a yes man or be sacked

 

[Locotoro]

Firstly no they're not that bad. All we need is one player from each age group to be good enough and we do, we always have, however most people have this unshakeable belief that the manager will always give a chance to an academy player if they are 'good enough' and he hasn't so apparently they're not. And I agree with you, I once suggested that if we aren't producing players for the first team or developing them why not just shut down the academy if it's not working but was told I was overreacting.

Any I thought I'd comment again, on the recent happenings at Chelsea as I think it only proves my point from the last 3/4 years, about cream will always rise and managers will always play you if you are good enough bla bla bla. Even as Chelsea go on their 6th straight win and also doing OK in the CL, Mourinho still is questioning them. Despite what we are witnessing he is still basically saying he would not be playing these players even though we can clearly see they are good enough. It means nothing, all that matters is what the manager thinks and surprise surprise a manager can be wrong. I and others have been called deluded, arrogant and all sorts, for daring to believe a academy players can play first. And we clearly know now that some managers will not. Before people bought the whole, Poch is some academy developing prodigy and most still do. They'd rather double down than possibly consider he's no better than AVB which is what I said a long time ago. As others have said, we had 2 players in the u21s starting lineup in 2017 and are the only club to not have them playing regular first team football, no doubt we were unlucky and had the two players with attitude or work rate problems.

I'm not going to completely cover old ground. But how can people not look at what is happening at Chelsea and realise the whole, so and so hasn't gone on to be world class yet so no loss there, argument holds any weight. They are currently showing how it should be done. They have 5/6 academy players in the first team, none of them may go on to be world class even with these opportunities but to deny they have massively contributed and added value, via money saved or money to be made can't be denied. And yet, if Mourinho was still with them, the chances are none of them would have played for a club better than Chelsea as their development would eventually have stagnated after multiple loans. Similarly, despite championing Winks from 19 as being good enough for our first team, I have never once thought he had the ability to be world class, I have only ever thought his ceiling was a regular for a top 6 club, and I don't think he'd ever play for a club better than us, and yet again we can't deny he has added value through saving money or will make us money. Why do people always need to measure whether an academy player is successful based on whether they go on to be world class, when the only argument ever made, is said academy player could contribute to the first team, and possibly be world class, whilst saving us money or making us money that we can allocate in more urgent areas. It's like people are being purposefully facetious just to avoid ever slightly criticising Poch when the only ever argument being made is about how the club can be improved. Rarely do any of our signings end up being world class and that doesn't stop us from shelling out money, and some of our most successful signings never ended up world class so never understand why it's a yardstick used to judge whether an academy player could have been any use, even when they're development is completely stifled.

Staying on Chelsea and Abraham in particular, just as he brings up a little marker of matching Rashfords highest goal tally in a PL season. I have said for ages, that jumping on the latest fad was always nonsense; and people hyped up any young player who got an opportunity as being the best in their age group. As people were unaware were plenty of other talents better about who very likely would never get the chance. Abraham may go on to bomb but he is perfect example. Even when Rashford was at his peak and had just come through, I told people Abraham was better. I said in 2017 after everyone was cussing Abraham because of a poor Euro u21s that he was England's 2nd best striker after Kane and always said, should he get his opportunity at Chelsea he will likely go on to prove he was better than Rashford and subsequently the other strikers getting hype at that time like Embolo, hopefully he continues in this vain for England's sake. And I didn't even watch Abraham as much as I watched our own academy. I would loved to have signed him but it's not like he would have come through here. The same way when I said Sancho was better than Sessegnon despite, Sancho never playing first team football and Sessegnon banging goals. I don't watch these kids one off, I watch them or have watched them loads of times, and it is so frustrating to see how much we have wasted and continue to waste. As I have always said, people rate the PL way too highly and underrate the academy players. You've got guys like Longstaff, Winks, Rice and McTominay easily handling it, and still have this belief you have to be some incredible talent to crack it. KWP has 3 motms remember, and I was told it was a case of earning your spot and all this nonsense and a player that has around 5 red cards and given away 3 penalties still got opportunities ahead of him. It's actually baffling. These are highly coached highly talented players. This false notion that the PL is hard to crack has got people believing anyone coming through is a special talent and wanting to throw big money and players. AWB goes for 70m and then Reece James comes along and proves he is better anyway.

I actually used to pull my hair out watching all of this unfold but fortunately I care a lot less now to get worked up. I just watched the academy games in peace, just enjoying the standard of play without really caring if they make it anymore, but I confess I am pleased in Chelsea's case to see these players getting chances and hope it ripples through other clubs...fat chance. Just hope they don't do better than us, and we learn to use ours. I remember it used to be, we can't play them as we are trying to quality for the CL, then we can't play them as we are a CL club, then we can't play them as we are now trying for the PL, now I wonder what the excuse will be. I guess none of our academy players' are the 8s they require to be to get into club sitting in the bottom half.

Do you think it's more about cycles than manager s not wanting to give the academy players a chance?
What I mean is that a youth player is more likely to get a chance when a team is renewing the cycle (like Winks, Kane, Mount, Abraham, Timori) than when that cycle is in full swing.

I can't think of a single premiership club that has done what Ajax or Barca have done and continue year on year to bring through youth players. It always seems to be a couple at the end of the cycle usually with a change of management

 

[Windwarden]

I guess like every other person, he wants to continue to his job. Be a yes man or be sacked

I read an interview with him some time ago where he was saying in order for him to keep his job he has to keep offering young players up to Poch who are of good enough quality, and that’s where the pressure in his work was. In retrospect, and somewhat speculatively, I think he was surprised how reluctant Poch is to accept any.

 

[spursfan77]

Firstly no they're not that bad. All we need is one player from each age group to be good enough and we do, we always have, however most people have this unshakeable belief that the manager will always give a chance to an academy player if they are 'good enough' and he hasn't so apparently they're not. And I agree with you, I once suggested that if we aren't producing players for the first team or developing them why not just shut down the academy if it's not working but was told I was overreacting.

Any I thought I'd comment again, on the recent happenings at Chelsea as I think it only proves my point from the last 3/4 years, about cream will always rise and managers will always play you if you are good enough bla bla bla. Even as Chelsea go on their 6th straight win and also doing OK in the CL, Mourinho still is questioning them. Despite what we are witnessing he is still basically saying he would not be playing these players even though we can clearly see they are good enough. It means nothing, all that matters is what the manager thinks and surprise surprise a manager can be wrong. I and others have been called deluded, arrogant and all sorts, for daring to believe a academy players can play first. And we clearly know now that some managers will not. Before people bought the whole, Poch is some academy developing prodigy and most still do. They'd rather double down than possibly consider he's no better than AVB which is what I said a long time ago. As others have said, we had 2 players in the u21s starting lineup in 2017 and are the only club to not have them playing regular first team football, no doubt we were unlucky and had the two players with attitude or work rate problems.

I'm not going to completely cover old ground. But how can people not look at what is happening at Chelsea and realise the whole, so and so hasn't gone on to be world class yet so no loss there, argument holds any weight. They are currently showing how it should be done. They have 5/6 academy players in the first team, none of them may go on to be world class even with these opportunities but to deny they have massively contributed and added value, via money saved or money to be made can't be denied. And yet, if Mourinho was still with them, the chances are none of them would have played for a club better than Chelsea as their development would eventually have stagnated after multiple loans. Similarly, despite championing Winks from 19 as being good enough for our first team, I have never once thought he had the ability to be world class, I have only ever thought his ceiling was a regular for a top 6 club, and I don't think he'd ever play for a club better than us, and yet again we can't deny he has added value through saving money or will make us money. Why do people always need to measure whether an academy player is successful based on whether they go on to be world class, when the only argument ever made, is said academy player could contribute to the first team, and possibly be world class, whilst saving us money or making us money that we can allocate in more urgent areas. It's like people are being purposefully facetious just to avoid ever slightly criticising Poch when the only ever argument being made is about how the club can be improved. Rarely do any of our signings end up being world class and that doesn't stop us from shelling out money, and some of our most successful signings never ended up world class so never understand why it's a yardstick used to judge whether an academy player could have been any use, even when they're development is completely stifled.

Staying on Chelsea and Abraham in particular, just as he brings up a little marker of matching Rashfords highest goal tally in a PL season. I have said for ages, that jumping on the latest fad was always nonsense; and people hyped up any young player who got an opportunity as being the best in their age group. As people were unaware were plenty of other talents better about who very likely would never get the chance. Abraham may go on to bomb but he is perfect example. Even when Rashford was at his peak and had just come through, I told people Abraham was better. I said in 2017 after everyone was cussing Abraham because of a poor Euro u21s that he was England's 2nd best striker after Kane and always said, should he get his opportunity at Chelsea he will likely go on to prove he was better than Rashford and subsequently the other strikers getting hype at that time like Embolo, hopefully he continues in this vain for England's sake. And I didn't even watch Abraham as much as I watched our own academy. I would loved to have signed him but it's not like he would have come through here. The same way when I said Sancho was better than Sessegnon despite, Sancho never playing first team football and Sessegnon banging goals. I don't watch these kids one off, I watch them or have watched them loads of times, and it is so frustrating to see how much we have wasted and continue to waste. As I have always said, people rate the PL way too highly and underrate the academy players. You've got guys like Longstaff, Winks, Rice and McTominay easily handling it, and still have this belief you have to be some incredible talent to crack it. KWP has 3 motms remember, and I was told it was a case of earning your spot and all this nonsense and a player that has around 5 red cards and given away 3 penalties still got opportunities ahead of him. It's actually baffling. These are highly coached highly talented players. This false notion that the PL is hard to crack has got people believing anyone coming through is a special talent and wanting to throw big money and players. AWB goes for 70m and then Reece James comes along and proves he is better anyway.

I actually used to pull my hair out watching all of this unfold but fortunately I care a lot less now to get worked up. I just watched the academy games in peace, just enjoying the standard of play without really caring if they make it anymore, but I confess I am pleased in Chelsea's case to see these players getting chances and hope it ripples through other clubs...fat chance. Just hope they don't do better than us, and we learn to use ours. I remember it used to be, we can't play them as we are trying to quality for the CL, then we can't play them as we are a CL club, then we can't play them as we are now trying for the PL, now I wonder what the excuse will be. I guess none of our academy players' are the 8s they require to be to get into club sitting in the bottom half.

There was a rumour he was going to leave Chelsea in the summer of 2018 and I was keen for us to sign him then. I'd say there were miles more people against it than for it at the time, despite him having a good umber of goals in the Championship.

 

[Phil_2.0]

McDermott is part of Pochettino's inner circle at the club, McDermott has a big influence on who gets promoted to the first team.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Do you think it's more about cycles than manager s not wanting to give the academy players a chance?
What I mean is that a youth player is more likely to get a chance when a team is renewing the cycle (like Winks, Kane, Mount, Abraham, Timori) than when that cycle is in full swing.

I can't think of a single premiership club that has done what Ajax or Barca have done and continue year on year to bring through youth players. It always seems to be a couple at the end of the cycle usually with a change of management

That’s not right about Barca. After the Messi Pique Busquets generation , where are the youth players. That’s going back about 12-14 yrs.
Also Ajax had not won anything in Holland for 5 yrs before last season. They will have had youth players in the team but I cannot remember any of them as any good. Frankie de Jong was signed from another Dutch club at 17yrs.
Often happens if you get a bunch of youth in the first team it then blocks the pathway for the next batch. See Man U after class of 92.
Whoever picks Chelsea players at 8 yrs old is worth a fortune as most of theirs have been there from 8.
Not forgetting Declan Rice, Eddie Nketiah and Rhian Brewster, all released at 14yrs old.
Or is it just that their youth coaches are the
KWP has to go in Jan. sold or loan. His career is going down the pan. Palace need a new right back.

 

[Locotoro]

That’s not right about Barca. After the Messi Pique Busquets generation , where are the youth players. That’s going back about 12-14 yrs.
Also Ajax had not won anything in Holland for 5 yrs before last season. They will have had youth players in the team but I cannot remember any of them as any good. Frankie de Jong was signed from another Dutch club at 17yrs.
Often happens if you get a bunch of youth in the first team it then blocks the pathway for the next batch. See Man U after class of 92.
Whoever picks Chelsea players at 8 yrs old is worth a fortune as most of theirs have been there from 8.
Not forgetting Declan Rice, Eddie Nketiah and Rhian Brewster, all released at 14yrs old.
Or is it just that their youth coaches are the
KWP has to go in Jan. sold or loan. His career is going down the pan. Palace need a new right back.

I guess that supports the point that it's all cyclical.

When you have a new manager he'll pick the players that he's willing to rely on be it youth or otherwise and that will block the progress of others for the next few years. If what you say about Ajax and Barca is true then even they have struggled to refresh the team with new youth players fro their highly respected academies.

Are we expecting something from Poch that actually we're not seeing from anyone else? Yes, a new manager will maybe promote more youth in the first cycle but what will happen after 3 to 4 years - the same problem.

I certainly agree there have been opportunities to bring in KWP into a very uncertain RB position but we're also told by Hercules that KWP is not cutting it in training. Also with Skipp's progress being blocked by Wanyama. But we have started incorporating Foyth and Sessegnon who were bought fairly young despite not being from the academy.

I'm hopeful that the new cycle for Poch will give him the impetus to bring through Skipp, Parrot and Tanganga as "real" squad rotational options.

 

[coys200]

Gillingham in the leasing need to win to qualify 7pm KO

Really no reason KWP shouldn’t play in this.

 

[Anuth]

 

[edson]

1-0 down

 

[edson]

Half time 1-0 down

This has been a 50 50 game and we have played well, Bennett had a good effort at the start of the match cutting inside and having a good shot just go wide, he also put a good ball across the goal but no one there.
Harvey White is running things in midfield and looks the part, Binks solid at the back and winning a lot of headers.

Just need to do more in the final third.

 

[edson]

Lost 2-0

 

[edson]

Harvey White faded a bit in the second half so the best player for us on the night was Binks a solid performance.

We have some players below par tonight Richards, Shashoua,Tracey, TOB

Bennett could not get into the game in the second half Lee Hodson their RB done a good job on him.

It was not a bad performance we just had no Cutting edge and to be fair too Gillingham they defended very well.

Having watched a lot of the u23 games I do think we need a change of Manger.

Old boy Connor Ogilvie played CB and had a solid game.

 

[SugarRay]

Harvey White faded a bit in the second half so the best player for us on the night was Binks a solid performance.

We have some players below par tonight Richards, Shashoua,Tracey, TOB

Bennett could not get into the game in the second half Lee Hodges their RB done a good job on him.

It was not a bad performance we just had no Cutting edge and to be fair too Gillingham they defended very well.

Having watched a lot of the u23 games I do think we need a change of Manger.

Old boy Connor Ogilvie played CB and had a solid game.

Thought Binks and White looked pretty good. First time I’ve seen both

 

[VanZan]

There was a rumour he was going to leave Chelsea in the summer of 2018 and I was keen for us to sign him then. I'd say there were miles more people against it than for it at the time, despite him having a good umber of goals in the Championship.

You mean us do business with Chelsea? When's the last time that happened? Don't think Chelsea will trade with us as long as ENIC are here.

 

[Sophos151]

You mean us do business with Chelsea? When's the last time that happened? Don't think Chelsea will trade with us as long as ENIC are here.

We bought Gus Poyet off of them in 2001, and haven't done any business with them since, other than taking Cudicini on a free.