brendanb50
Well-Known Member
- Jul 21, 2005
- 4,486
- 3,895
A one-goal deficit is nothing. There's more than just a chance we can overturn that. All to play for still.
Match Threads Spurs vs RB Leipzig 1st leg - Match Thread
- Thread starter Bulletspur
- Start date
A one-goal deficit is nothing. There's more than just a chance we can overturn that. All to play for still.
Riandor
COB Founder
- May 26, 2004
- 9,418
- 11,626
The issue for me is very much in the decision making.
1 - From Mourinho
2 - The players on the pitch
We know what Mourinho is trying to do and many of you have spoken about this in this thread and others already. I think the biggest mistake was to rely on keeping the same tactics but without our fastest and most direct player out (i.e. Son).
But the players MUST start to think. Too often I saw our defence receive or win the ball and even though they weren't under pressure, they tried to play long balls up to Moura or Bergwijn who were never or almost never 1 on 1, but often 1 vs 3. This despite Lo Celso dropping to receive the ball.
Other times even when Lo Celso or Winks didn't, Toby refused to carry the ball forwards. he defenders stayed in their defined zone and looked to hit long or reycle it wide into areas too easy to shut down. There must be more trust for our ball carriers. Toby should move forward where space allows and close the gap to the midfielders who can then play fast one twos or carry beyond the opponents because we will out number them or at least be equal in numbers.
By waiting for players to drop to receive the ball you invite pressure onto one pivot, Lo Celso loses the ball the least so can do ok, but Winks and even Ndombele when facing their own goal are probe to the press. It's why I prefer the defenders looking to move forwards and pass beyond the press, looking for the long ball only once the oppoennets have been drawn forwards fearing us playing through their ranks.
It also means we will hav periods of actual possession rather than constantly looking to hit fast and losing the ball so quickly.
Dele does not suit our counter system, he is "too slow". He is a clever player, trained in timed runs into the box from players with the skill of Christian Eriksen who would hit diagonal crosses from between the defensive lines. Lamella and Lo Celso can play with im, but not if we are just going to hit it long. I say use this craft and be less direct (with Kane and Son out).
When we wer cunning Leipzig had to foul us and drew yellow cards, wehn we played direct they swarmed Moura or Bergwijn and knew we were then toothless.
Last ly though, Dele CANNOT swan around at the front and not get stuck in. He is taking over from CE in the not bothering to try and tackle front. In any system this shouldn't be the casem but in our current style it's even worse.
1 - From Mourinho
2 - The players on the pitch
We know what Mourinho is trying to do and many of you have spoken about this in this thread and others already. I think the biggest mistake was to rely on keeping the same tactics but without our fastest and most direct player out (i.e. Son).
But the players MUST start to think. Too often I saw our defence receive or win the ball and even though they weren't under pressure, they tried to play long balls up to Moura or Bergwijn who were never or almost never 1 on 1, but often 1 vs 3. This despite Lo Celso dropping to receive the ball.
Other times even when Lo Celso or Winks didn't, Toby refused to carry the ball forwards. he defenders stayed in their defined zone and looked to hit long or reycle it wide into areas too easy to shut down. There must be more trust for our ball carriers. Toby should move forward where space allows and close the gap to the midfielders who can then play fast one twos or carry beyond the opponents because we will out number them or at least be equal in numbers.
By waiting for players to drop to receive the ball you invite pressure onto one pivot, Lo Celso loses the ball the least so can do ok, but Winks and even Ndombele when facing their own goal are probe to the press. It's why I prefer the defenders looking to move forwards and pass beyond the press, looking for the long ball only once the oppoennets have been drawn forwards fearing us playing through their ranks.
It also means we will hav periods of actual possession rather than constantly looking to hit fast and losing the ball so quickly.
Dele does not suit our counter system, he is "too slow". He is a clever player, trained in timed runs into the box from players with the skill of Christian Eriksen who would hit diagonal crosses from between the defensive lines. Lamella and Lo Celso can play with im, but not if we are just going to hit it long. I say use this craft and be less direct (with Kane and Son out).
When we wer cunning Leipzig had to foul us and drew yellow cards, wehn we played direct they swarmed Moura or Bergwijn and knew we were then toothless.
Last ly though, Dele CANNOT swan around at the front and not get stuck in. He is taking over from CE in the not bothering to try and tackle front. In any system this shouldn't be the casem but in our current style it's even worse.
stov
Well-Known Member
- Jul 20, 2005
- 3,353
- 6,112
He'll get his pay off in July when we don't qualify for cl and lose to Norwich in the FA cup.
TheCheeseRoom
Well-Known Member
- May 14, 2019
- 314
- 1,515
Somewhere deep inside Hotspur Way Daniel is preparing an invoice for 200 rolls of toilet paper to be sent to Leipzig.
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,680
- 104,957
If we make no mistakes defensively and take our chances in front of goal then yes.
lol
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2008
- 6,652
- 6,083
Lol have you forgotten how bad gilberto was
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,680
- 104,957
That quote is so out of context to the rest of what the manager actually says. Very lazy journalism.
It looked like Dele played up front at times, do you seem him as a viable option to play there while Harry and Sonny are missing?
It is difficult. It is even difficult to tell you the direction we are going in the near future because it is big question marks. We are going to for sure change systems and shapes according to the players we have available for the match.
We are going to try this sort of thing we tried with Lamela. He cannot play from the beginning, but he can come for the last 20 minutes which was a little bit what I did against Southampton. I had no Bergwijn in the game. I had only Lucas and Sonny and I wait and wait and wait for Dele Alli, to bring Dele Alli on for the last 20 minutes and then Dele Alli change the game against Southampton.
We are speaking about a very difficult situation and if I could, if I could I would move immediately to the first of July. And the first of July with Harry Kane, with Sissoko, with Son, with Bergwijn, with Lucas, with Lamela. I would love to be on the first of July, but I am not.
We are the 19th so we have to fight until the end. I feel really proud of the boys. I arrived here 12 points behind the fourth (team). We are one point behind the fourth (team) and we are going to fight. But as I was saying in some television (interviews).
shelfmonkey
Weird is different, different is interesting.
- Mar 21, 2007
- 6,690
- 8,040
Dr Benson
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2013
- 465
- 569
Yes, football is about winning games and trophys. If the goal is to get 4th places and qualify for CL just because of the money, the oil business or investing in Mercedes Benz, substainable energy or something like that would probably give a lot more profit. But this is not about money and profit after all. It is a sport! And a FA-cup trophy values much more than lets say a quarter final in CL, at least in my eyes..
HodisGawd
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 1,740
- 5,924
People criticising the tactics, I understand it is negative. But really, do we have many options? No.
Much like the end of last season, the manager's hands are tied - his options are limited by the personnel available. It's not like we can choose formations and tactics on a horses for courses basis. We have no strikers. There are things we just cannot do, which makes us predictable to the opposition. We are unable to mix it up.
This is the real problem with being down to the bare bones. You look at our first XI and it is still good, but it is 11 players shoe-horned in with no real options to change a formation coming off the bench.
So for this reason, much as I'd love to blame Mourinho, I don't think we can.
No club should find themselves in this position in a season. Surely it is just negligent of the club not to have a striker at this point in the season. Man Utd felt it necessary to get Ighalo after Rashford got injured despite having other options like Greenwood. We don't even have that.
What makes this even more galling is that I feel we were at exactly this point last season. We limped through last season and got 4th and by some miracle the Champs League final. But for a good chunk of that period. Poch's team was basically picked for him on the basis of who was fit. Lightning doesn't strike twice and we are going to suffer badly.
We already are suffering - with a striker I think we beat Leipzig.
The question has got to be asked, why haven't lessons been learned?
Much like the end of last season, the manager's hands are tied - his options are limited by the personnel available. It's not like we can choose formations and tactics on a horses for courses basis. We have no strikers. There are things we just cannot do, which makes us predictable to the opposition. We are unable to mix it up.
This is the real problem with being down to the bare bones. You look at our first XI and it is still good, but it is 11 players shoe-horned in with no real options to change a formation coming off the bench.
So for this reason, much as I'd love to blame Mourinho, I don't think we can.
No club should find themselves in this position in a season. Surely it is just negligent of the club not to have a striker at this point in the season. Man Utd felt it necessary to get Ighalo after Rashford got injured despite having other options like Greenwood. We don't even have that.
What makes this even more galling is that I feel we were at exactly this point last season. We limped through last season and got 4th and by some miracle the Champs League final. But for a good chunk of that period. Poch's team was basically picked for him on the basis of who was fit. Lightning doesn't strike twice and we are going to suffer badly.
We already are suffering - with a striker I think we beat Leipzig.
The question has got to be asked, why haven't lessons been learned?
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
- 58,005
Whilst I agree that no manager should be left in this position, wasn't there plenty of evidence to show we have other options by how we made 2 subs which changed the game? I understand that Lamela only had 20 minutes in him but couldn't we have gone with the extra midfielder in the middle instead of the 4-4-2. We also left Sessegnon at home and we didn't try Parrott. I'm not saying this as a criticism but more to the point we do have options going forward to play in a variety of ways, I refuse to write this season off, we have quality we just need to strike the right balance.
There's plenty of other things we can try, maybe Aurier as an attacking outlet isn't as valuable as being able to play Tanganga instead and having a solid back 4 so we can play with 2 wingers and give the midfield more freedom to move forward with the extra defender sitting back.
shelfboy68
Well-Known Member
- Jun 14, 2008
- 14,566
- 19,651
We should not have been in the position we are but the January window wasn't the issue the real problems started further back, not buying adequate back up during the summer or in the previous absent windows has done for us.
It was and is neglect from both the previous manager and the board who tried to get away with it by saving money, but what you will here is there was no one available and we didn't want to do a Leeds.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
This is exactly the problem.
HodisGawd
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 1,740
- 5,924
I don't see how the changes you suggested are really big changes and there certainly aren't "plenty of other things we can try".
My point was we aren't able to mix things up at the moment.
Can we try playing a traditional 4-4-2 wth two strikers? No.
Can we try lumping it up to a big man? No.
Can we try anything that involves the ball sticking up front? No.
I can go on, but basically not having any striker stymies our tactics and, in my view, no manager should be left in that position. Poch was last season and it hurt us.
The two subs changed the game yesterday because they are good players - not for any tactical reason. Lamela was only on for 20 minutes because he only had 20 minutes in his legs. Pretty much the same with Ndombele. Of course, they didn't start. The manager pretty much played the XI he had fit barring a couple of choices like leaving out Tanganga who I guess he is saving for Chelsea, because his options are so limited.
Whatever you think, Parrott is not deemed ready by Mourinho - and we have to go with that. And besides, it seems there's something going on there with his behaviour. Either way, it seems he doesn't count as an option.
How can a manager manage a team in disarray like this? How did we start a season with just one striker? Look how many Arsenal, for example, have. And, as it happens, they're all pretty good.
The club has messed up here, big time.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 19,085
- 47,758
I suppose you could point towards the fact his dinasaur tactics have closed the gap to CL places from 12 to 1 and lead us to beat Man.City at home...
I do agree the football is poor to watch but it CAN be effective, we need to wait until we have a fit squad and a few new signings to properly judge his style of play. Yesterday was a horrible horrible watch, we just didn't try to play football at all but then again I think Jose doesn't want his threadbare attacking options to burn out which is fair enough.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
- 19,085
- 47,758
spot on mate, i think @Vinny_Sammways_left_peg is a rather angry keyboard warrior, all hail.
As @shelfmonkey said the conversation is about the style of play.
D
Deleted member 27995
Take the day off chap, you just don't like the fact you've mugged yourself off and doubled down on it is all.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
The fact that he's has more trophies to his name than our entire clubs history...if that isn't worth a few months of your patience then that's down to you.
