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Match Threads Spurs vs Norwich - Match Thread (FA Cup)

Match Prediction

  • Spurs Win in Normal Time

    Votes: 99 66.4%
  • Spurs Win in Extra Time and Penalties

    Votes: 21 14.1%
  • Norwich Win in Normal Time

    Votes: 17 11.4%
  • Norwich Win in Extra Time and Penalties

    Votes: 12 8.1%

  • Total voters
    149
  • Poll closed .

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,354
38,297
My view, I think it’s pretty balanced: Levy has overall done a great job for this club - we were in the wilderness when he joined and under his stewardship we’ve managed to hang onto the coat tails of the other big clubs rather than being cut adrift like Everton or Villa. He has in invested in the infrastructure to the extent that we have arguably the best training ground and stadium in Europe and we are generating higher t/o than arsenal or chelsea. That is no mean achievement. Pochetinno deserves a lot of credit for that too. He did an amazing job with the playing side of the business. We got so close to the sort of success we could never have thought possible 10 or 15 years ago. For whatever reason (I suspect levy and poch would both accept some blame) we failed to refresh the squad sufficiently, the players got a bit complacent, Poch made some ill-considered comments about potentially leaving, he foresaw the painful transition and warned of it publicly. Despite Poch’s loyalty when Madrid and others came calling, levy fired him a few months after we lost the champs league final. It was a gutsy call from Levy. Not one I supported but you’ve got to respect his balls. But unfortunately he has massively f*cked up. He wanted a winner but he has yesterdays man. A manager whose infuriatingly cautious approach and dour brand of football is at complete odds with both the culture of this club and what has so recently gone before. It’s painful to see how quickly we have moved backwards and to know it was our own doing. Hopefully Levy shows the same balls again and fires Mourinho - one good performance since he arrived, players clearly not enjoying playing for him and fans clearly not enjoying watching us play - the sooner the better, in my opinion.
Good post but again, I would be stunned if he sacks him in the short term. The squad does indeed need refreshing and he'll deserve the chance for both him and his still (relatively new let's not forget) coaching team to work on the squad during preseason. If we're still struggling in January/February I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
I know I am probably the only one but when we were one nil up we had three stellar chances to score in particular the one where Moura only had to push the ball a few feet to his left to Dele with the goal gaping . Mora went for glory and buggered up. if any of these chances were taken in my eyes we would have gone on to win with ease .As for the penalties Krul was almost standing on the toes of our penalty takers .
Its not clutching at straws just the actual facts of the game . The Kane / Son situation is hitting us really hard .
Queue here to ridicule my view .
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I know I am probably the only one but when we were one nil up we had three stellar chances to score in particular the one where Moura only had to push the ball a few feet to his left to Dele with the goal gaping . Mora went for glory and buggered up. if any of these chances were taken in my eyes we would have gone on to win with ease .As for the penalties Krul was almost standing on the toes of our penalty takers .
Its not clutching at straws just the actual facts of the game . The Kane / Son situation is hitting us really hard .
Queue here to ridicule my view .
Couldn't agree more on this point, but the mob has spoken.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
I know I am probably the only one but when we were one nil up we had three stellar chances to score in particular the one where Moura only had to push the ball a few feet to his left to Dele with the goal gaping . Moura went for glory and buggered up. if any of these chances were taken in my eyes we would have gone on to win with ease .As for the penalties Krul was almost standing on the toes of our penalty takers .
Its not clutching at straws just the actual facts of the game . The Kane / Son situation is hitting us really hard .
Queue here to ridicule my view .
Yep - I don't understand why our forwards are frequently so selfish. You watch Liverpool and City - they constantly find each other and are aware of each other in the box - if someone's better positioned then the ball goes to them. Our forwards shoot into legs hoping the ball will squeeze through. Those goal bonuses must be quite something.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Patience how many fucking times have heard that. 5 yr plan 10 yr plan we’ve won one trophy in 21 yrs fucking shite. Fuck the stadium we were unbeaten at home at the old lane a few seasons ago distant memory., when are you fucking levy lovers going to realise and wise up to what that prick is doing to our club. Ffs get a fucking grip

No Levy lover but I have a balanced view and outlook. My emotions and 'what I want' almost never becomes more important than looking at reality. Nothing's perfect but it doesn't mean everything's wrong.
 
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daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
This is the match thread, right - so a couple of positives amongst the dirge:

Vertonghen's goal. Loads banging on about him being finished at this level. He played quite brightly I thought and rose very well for his header into the back of the net. Lo Celso's cross was also a sight to behold - Found someone at the back post and the ball was high in the air and not easily dealt with.

Skipp - ran all day and had a good game. Would like to see more of him.

Gedson - despite the utter tripe of a penalty played well and showed more glimpses of what he can provide. I'm optimisitic.

Lo Celso - love the guy but for one misplaced pass - he even tried to rile the crowd after he scored his penalty. Hopefully his passion will be infectious. He seems to have charged himself with the job of being the fans favourite player.
 

Daytripper

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2011
412
1,572
This is the match thread, right - so a couple of positives amongst the dirge:

Vertonghen's goal. Loads banging on about him being finished at this level. He played quite brightly I thought and rose very well for his header into the back of the net. Lo Celso's cross was also a sight to behold - Found someone at the back post and the ball was high in the air and not easily dealt with.

Skipp - ran all day and had a good game. Would like to see more of him.

Gedson - despite the utter tripe of a penalty played well and showed more glimpses of what he can provide. I'm optimisitic.

Lo Celso - love the guy but for one misplaced pass - he even tried to rile the crowd after he scored his penalty. Hopefully his passion will be infectious. He seems to have charged himself with the job of being the fans favourite player.
Yep, could not agree more with this. Was worried seeing Jan at LB, thought Aarons would constantly be skipping past him but I thought he had a really good game. Gedson, again, really positive, always looking to go forward. Skipp, despite losing the ball a copule of times, he always made the effort to recover it chased back and put in some good tackles. Also thought Dier was better at CB and Tanguy played quite well in his short cameo appearance.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Yep - I don't understand why our forwards are frequently so selfish. You watch Liverpool and City - they constantly find each other and are aware of each other in the box - if someone's better positioned then the ball goes to them. Our forwards shoot into legs hoping the ball will squeeze through. Those goal bonuses must be quite something.

There really doesn't seem to be a great plan. It seems that Mourinho tells them we don't have a striker so go for goal wherever and they take it literally. How about the forwards looking for space and creating space to pass.They run into three players constantly
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
Mourinho has brought no improvement on results, add to that we are terrible to watch and we won't rebuild the squad in the summer equals we are fucked. I said it after the Wolves game and got a spam for it but I'll say it again, I find no entertainment in watching us play at the minute. I really don't enjoy it and seem to come away frustrated.
He literally has improved results though.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
But as I've said over a few posts now, focus on the players that are left... Whatever is the ideal way that Mourinho wants to play, as it stands this group just isn't suited to sitting back and soaking up pressure. To play his football/his teams have always had very good pure defenders. Defensive minded, positionally sound, usually ultra experienced, low error count, a rock solid platform made up of the back four and cm2,then add a couple of reliable sacrificial 'defensive' wide men who can track back and make your two banks of four. Then with the ball it is all about rapid transitions and interchanges to blitz the opposition. But:

Aurier - First second and 700th instinct is to bomb forward, positioning and concentration suspect at the best of times. Likes to charge out and engage the opposition.

Sanchez - Getting there, but still not quite the finished article. Probably the best pure defender we have at this point, another whose inclination is to get tight and step out and engage the opposition.

Alderweireld - Is physically declining and this is being shown up more and more with ultra tentative defending. Can still do the job on a good day, but this really isn't a given anymore.

Vertonghen - Even more on the decline and getting shown up.

Dier - Cant do the job in midfield anymore. Currently remembering how to play centre back.

Tanganga - Rookie. Another who likes to step out and engage the opposition.

Foyth - Still a rookie. Ball playing defender bought in for high possession team playing high up the pitch. Yet another who likes to charge out and get stuck into his man.

Davies - Ok but not top class defender. Can do a job though.

Sessegnon - At left back and attack minded option. A rookie who is learning the defensive aspects of the game.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball player. Weak at sitting and screening. Can press and is quite tenacious and mobile though.

Skipp - Rookie. Basically a bit more of a tenacious version of Winks.

Sissoko - Cant be trusted to sit and screen, doesn't have the nous or game intelligence or positional ability, best deployed running about all over the place / Good player for transitions when we get the ball.

Lo Celso - More advanced ball player. Tenacious and will scrap, not a sitter / With ball likes it to feet and lot of touches, can pick a pass.

Ndombele - Clearly not someone who can sit and screen the defence at this point / Likes ball to feet and lots of touches and give and go's

Gedson - Versatile, will run lots, but a rookie attack minded midfielder. Unsure what type of player he really is currently.

Lamela - Charges around giving 200%, presses and hassles well, cant be trusted to defend a flank though / Likes ball to feet, lots of touches, lots of passes etc.

Moura - Tries his heart out when the ball is in his immediate vicinity, but not a great defensive player and cant be trusted to defend a flank consistently / With ball likes it to feet, and considering his skillset isn't actually great in transitions and exploiting quick counter attacks.

Bergwijn - Not lazy, but doesn't look that diligent either in his defensive duties / With ball seems to like it to feet also, not rapid and not brilliant in transitions

Alli - Will do a job whether he is stationed but not the most tenacious presser / Likes the ball to feet, lots of touches, at his own pace, best work done picking his moments to get into the penalty area and sniffing opportunities. Not great at rapid transitions.



That is just not a squad that to me screams being able to sit back, and be able to soak up pressure to varying degrees almost every week, nor carry out rapid counter attacks. With Kane and especially Son back the attacking plans might be better but defensively there will still be massive issues. Without them it just seems totally foolhardy.

With those available at the moment and what their skills/qualities are it would seem best, unsurprisingly given most of the squad were bought for a manager trying to play this football, to get up the pitch, press high, commit players forward and try to dominate the ball and out football teams and just generally have a go. That wont solve all the issues and indeed might not work, as we saw at the weekend when losing an open game, it might even still be a crap watch, but I think there is more chance of that working and individual players shining than us trying to sit and soak and be solid and counter.

In future, with considerable overhaul and those two key injuries back, Mourinho might get a team that can play in his image and carry out this type of football. But at the moment lets be honest he is shoehorning his ideals on a bunch of players patently unsuited to do this. And I think is the big reason why we often look clueless and we're hearing fans cry we have no identity. He is within his rights to just say we're continuing to do this for the rest of the season despite this, but it will continue to fail more often than not and he has to take the responsibility for choosing to do that.
I think you have a point about the pressing but it’s still not so simple as to say let’s do it. The bigger picture is that currently the manager has a limited amount of attacking players at his disposal to implement that. The last thing we need now is more injuries up there from the players going beyond their limits with a lack of rotation available.

As I’ve said, if we’re seeing this approach with a side that is mostly fully fit or there is not a quick succession of games then I’ll be right there with you criticising it.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I think you have a point about the pressing but it’s still not so simple as to say let’s do it. The bigger picture is that currently the manager has a limited amount of attacking players at his disposal to implement that. The last thing we need now is more injuries up there from the players going beyond their limits with a lack of rotation available.

As I’ve said, if we’re seeing this approach with a side that is mostly fully fit or there is not a quick succession of games then I’ll be right there with you criticising it.

It's not even about the pressing, that is one small part of it. It's about the whole package. The reality is we have a load of attack minded technical players who like the ball to feet, no sitting midfielders, and not even really great counter attack players without Son. The team might be wide open and still not very good but I think it would have more chance trying to camp higher up the pitch and trying to dominate the ball and get at teams.

I also don't think playing this way is any less demanding for our attacking players. They have to get back in behind the ball, shuffle across from side to side constantly, then when the ball is won immediately tasked with running forward and doing something with the ball, then it's lost and chase back in behind the ball and the whole process starts again.

I'll switch round what you said (and most other fans have been saying in recent weeks), I think the main problem is Mourinho doesn't have the players at his disposal to implement his defensive tactics of sitting and soaking up pressure and having a rock solid base. Until the summer we will keep seeing this happen.
 

TURKISH69

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
505
735
My view, I think it’s pretty balanced: Levy has overall done a great job for this club - we were in the wilderness when he joined and under his stewardship we’ve managed to hang onto the coat tails of the other big clubs rather than being cut adrift like Everton or Villa. He has in invested in the infrastructure to the extent that we have arguably the best training ground and stadium in Europe and we are generating higher t/o than arsenal or chelsea. That is no mean achievement. Pochetinno deserves a lot of credit for that too. He did an amazing job with the playing side of the business. We got so close to the sort of success we could never have thought possible 10 or 15 years ago. For whatever reason (I suspect levy and poch would both accept some blame) we failed to refresh the squad sufficiently, the players got a bit complacent, Poch made some ill-considered comments about potentially leaving, he foresaw the painful transition and warned of it publicly. Despite Poch’s loyalty when Madrid and others came calling, levy fired him a few months after we lost the champs league final. It was a gutsy call from Levy. Not one I supported but you’ve got to respect his balls. But unfortunately he has massively f*cked up. He wanted a winner but he has yesterdays man. A manager whose infuriatingly cautious approach and dour brand of football is at complete odds with both the culture of this club and what has so recently gone before. It’s painful to see how quickly we have moved backwards and to know it was our own doing. Hopefully Levy shows the same balls again and fires Mourinho - one good performance since he arrived, players clearly not enjoying playing for him and fans clearly not enjoying watching us play - the sooner the better, in my opinion.
Great post but Levy has done a great job off the field but on the field horrendous job. One trophy in 21 yrs with some of the players we’ve had in that period refuses to take us to the next level!
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
This is the match thread, right - so a couple of positives amongst the dirge:

Vertonghen's goal. Loads banging on about him being finished at this level. He played quite brightly I thought and rose very well for his header into the back of the net. Lo Celso's cross was also a sight to behold - Found someone at the back post and the ball was high in the air and not easily dealt with.

Skipp - ran all day and had a good game. Would like to see more of him.

Gedson - despite the utter tripe of a penalty played well and showed more glimpses of what he can provide. I'm optimisitic.

Lo Celso - love the guy but for one misplaced pass - he even tried to rile the crowd after he scored his penalty. Hopefully his passion will be infectious. He seems to have charged himself with the job of being the fans favourite player.
Good thing about Gedson is i've seen him do fairly well in a number of positions now. His finishing let him down mind.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
Also, been meaning to say for the last few weeks now, the new stadium has nearly been open a year now...… The amount of players still slipping over or not being able to keep their balance and adjust their feet is silly. Some of it is probably an issue with the surface, but the players have played on it now often enough and must be able to recognise it and wear the correct footwear, stud length etc.
 
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