Spurs and VAR

[KikoSpurs]

This weekend showed how obvious is match fixing in Premier League. I am tired of this corrupt League.

As soon as the match finished I called my broadband an cancelled my subscription to the channel responsible to transmit PL here.

For now on this league won't have my money. I will only watch illegal streams through VPN.

 

[tiger666]

Taken from Sky sports:

The new handball rule for defenders
A foul will be awarded the ball hits a player who has made themselves "unnaturally bigger" with their arm. IFAB determine that a hand or arm above shoulder height is rarely a “natural position”. There can be exceptions, such as when a player is falling.Leeway can also be given with ricocheted handballs, when it comes off a nearby player or if the player cannot see the ball.

So I'm dying to fucking know the justification for why the referee was amazing and didn't use that part of the rule.

Do you have a link to that?

 

[spud]

You're allowed to should to shoulder somebody.....

That is a common misconception.....

He didn't do that

You said that you're allowed to 'shoulder to shoulder' somebody. I said you're not. Then you say 'he didn't do that'.

WTF? I made no comment on what Hojbjerg or Joelinton did or didn't do. I was just correcting your erroneous opinion about 'shoulder to shoulder' contact.

 

[Trotter]

Taken from Sky sports:

The new handball rule for defenders
A foul will be awarded the ball hits a player who has made themselves "unnaturally bigger" with their arm. IFAB determine that a hand or arm above shoulder height is rarely a “natural position”. There can be exceptions, such as when a player is falling.Leeway can also be given with ricocheted handballs, when it comes off a nearby player or if the player cannot see the ball.

So I'm dying to fucking know the justification for why the referee was amazing and didn't use that part of the rule.

Well it is simple, because that is not the law that someone has written n Sky Sports website, just their brief not full interpretation, at least the BBC understand it now.
The leeways they are talking about only come into play if certain criteria are not met, and the arm making the body unnaturally bigger nullifies those exceptions, it is explicit in the laws of the game.

 

[wrd]

You said that you're allowed to 'shoulder to shoulder' somebody. I said you're not. Then you say 'he didn't do that'.

WTF? I made no comment on what Hojbjerg or Joelinton did or didn't do. I was just correcting your erroneous opinion about 'shoulder to shoulder' contact.

How are you confused, I said you're allowed to go shoulder to shoulder, you've interpreted that as me suggesting you're allowed to whack people with your shoulder which I didn't say, Im saying some jostling with the shoulder isn't against the rules and certainly what Hojbjerg did wasn't against the rules. Hes allowed to rotate his body.

 

[JCRD]

Taken from Sky sports:

The new handball rule for defenders
A foul will be awarded the ball hits a player who has made themselves "unnaturally bigger" with their arm. IFAB determine that a hand or arm above shoulder height is rarely a “natural position”. There can be exceptions, such as when a player is falling.Leeway can also be given with ricocheted handballs, when it comes off a nearby player or if the player cannot see the ball.

So I'm dying to fucking know the justification for why the referee was amazing and didn't use that part of the rule.

That rule is shit - it just assumes when youre on the ground. What if youre jumping for example - I urge anyone to jump without using their arms for leverage

 

[gavspur]

The thing is, just moments before the penalty, the same thing happened between the same players.. Outcome? No penalty... So why do they say the second one is? It was almost the exact same thing.

 

[wrd]

Well it is simple, because that is not the law as they have written it.
The leeways they are talking about only come into play if certain criteria are not met, and the arm making the body unnaturally bigger nullifies those exceptions, it is explicit in the laws of the game.

Unnaturally bigger is the discrepency here because there was nothing unnatural about what Dier did which is where your logic falls flat. So how does it nullify the exception because there's not a chance you can vindicate the notion of it being unnaturally bigger. Unless of course you seem to think anything other than the arms completely against the sides is unnatural which simply isn't true because people use their arms to gain momentum in a jump.

 

[wrd]

That rule is shit - it just assumes when youre on the ground. What if youre jumping for example - I urge anyone to jump without using their arms for leverage

Yeah its absolute bs, as I said, they dont understand basic body mechanics.

 

[Trotter]

The thing is, just moments before the penalty, the same thing happened between the same players.. Outcome? No penalty... So why do they say the second one is? It was almost the exact same thing.

Because on previous occasion Dier's arm was not outside body line so was not an offence (and I am not sure it hit him on arm, and if it did was above the T-Shirt line anyway, so cannot be handball

 

[Trotter]

Unnaturally bigger is the discrepency here because there was nothing unnatural about what Dier did which is where your logic falls flat. So how does it nullify the exception because there's not a chance you can vindicate the notion of it being unnaturally bigger. Unless of course you seem to think anything other than the arms completely against the sides is unnatural which simply isn't true because people use their arms to gain momentum in a jump.

IFAB have issued many diagrams of what they regard as unnaturally bigger, and many videos
It is not a judgement of was a player unnaturally bigger for the situation he was in, it is as black and white as "Was the players arms by his side or directly in front or behind so not enlarging his silhouette YES/NO. No exception to this, however hard you want to look or argue.

 

[spud]

How are you confused, I said you're allowed to go shoulder to shoulder, you've interpreted that as me suggesting you're allowed to whack people with your shoulder which I didn't say, Im saying some jostling with the shoulder isn't against the rules and certainly what Hojbjerg did wasn't against the rules. Hes allowed to rotate his body.

I'm not confused, but you appear to be. You said 'you are allowed to shoulder to shoulder somebody' but seem to think that you really said 'you're allowed to go shoulder to shoulder'. I'd check my own posts if I were you.

Once again: I never mentioned either Hojbjerg or Joelinton.

 

[taidgh]

This weekend showed how obvious is match fixing in Premier League. I am tired of this corrupt League.

As soon as the match finished I called my broadband an cancelled my subscription to the channel responsible to transmit PL here.

For now on this league won't have my money. I will only watch illegal streams through VPN.

Christ's sake. So the Prem is simultaneously ensuring ourselves, City and Wolves don't win while ensuring that Newcastle, Leicester and West Ham do?

 

[popstar7]

IFAB have issued many diagrams of what they regard as unnaturally bigger, and many videos
It is not a judgement of was a player unnaturally bigger for the situation he was in, it is as black and white as "Was the players arms by his side or directly in front or behind so not enlarging his silhouette YES/NO. No exception to this, however hard you want to look or argue.

We're not confused on what the rule that's been introduced is. We're pissed off that the rule that's been introduced is fucking stupid.

 

[taidgh]

Let's face it mate, the officials have too much control and are able to govern the rule of the game as they see fit and their focus seems to be to directly benefit them as if the most important aspect of football is they have a binary decision to make even if it's to the detriment of the sport itself. They have completely lost touch with the reality of the spirit of the game and you only have to look at this thread and the BT ref reviews along with Ref watch to realise that they are so far down the rabbit hole of thinking their role in the sport is what matters.

The point of referees in any sport is to govern whatever it is they're officiating in the spirit of the game and make sure that nobody is gaining unfair advantages which goes against that. What refs have done in football is decide that their rulebook is the gospel and irrelevant of whether the penalised team wasn't cheating, they're going to go by their little rule book and pat themselves on the back and call people idiots because they think we don't understand the rules. We understand the rules just fine, we just realise that they're fucking stupid and that refs should introduce common sense when applying such fucking stupid rules.

Individual referees, no. The overall refereeing/rule-making body, yes.

 

[wrd]

IFAB have issued many diagrams of what they regard as unnaturally bigger, and many videos
It is not a judgement of was a player unnaturally bigger for the situation he was in, it is as black and white as "Was the players arms by his side or directly in front or behind so not enlarging his silhouette YES/NO. No exception to this, however hard you want to look.

And as I keep repeating, you, the ifab and whoever else do not understand basic body mechanics.

They can make as many diagrams they want on what they consider to be unnatural but as a matter of fact having arms out wide is a basic body function.

Every fucking kinetic movement we do all centres around 1 thing. Balance.

They're 3 surefire ways to ensure balance. Having as big a base of support to carry your body mass. Keeping your centre of gravity as low as you can AND using your arms so you can rapidly move your centre of gravity. Its why when people are walking on a tight rope they have their arms out because they can quickly shift their weight over when adjusting their arms.

So when you are jumping you are completely out of balance and need to keep your arms wide to ensure you are able to land properly and not fall over completely.

Our body masses also drag depending on depending on what part of our body is leading the action so if your jumping horizontally. Guess what your arm is going to drag behind the rest of your body and be wide.

That governing body do not understand simple body mechanics and you want to suggest theyre correct in saying that its an unnatural movement. Its an absolute farce.

 

[Trotter]

We're not confused on what the rule that's been introduced is. We're pissed off that the rule that's been introduced is fucking stupid.

Some still are confused, and I agree with you it is stupid, and takes away from the game we enjoy.
Although I do wonder if the law 50 years ago was if it hit hand its an offence full stop and we all grew up with it we would see it as stupid.

 

[Trotter]

And as I keep repeating, you, the ifab and whoever else do not understand basic body mechanics.

They can make as many diagrams they want on what they consider to be unnatural but as a matter of fact having arms out wide is a basic body function.

Every fucking kinetic movement we do all centres around 1 thing. Balance.

They're 3 surefire ways to ensure balance. Having as big a base of support to carry your body mass. Keeping your centre of gravity as low as you can AND using your arms so you can rapidly move your centre of gravity. Its why when people are walking on a tight rope they have their arms out because they can quickly shift their weight over when adjusting their arms.

So when you are jumping you are completely out of balance and need to keep your arms wide to ensure you are able to land properly and not fall over completely.

Our body masses also drag depending on depending on what part of our body is leading the action so if your jumping horizontally. Guess what your arm is going to drag behind the rest of your body and be wide.

That governing body do not understand simple body mechanics and you want to suggest theyre correct in saying that its an unnatural movement. Its an absolute farce.

I am not saying the law is right never have, and detest it.
However I am totally contesting you trying to argue and try and find misread exceptions in the law to say the decision was factually incorrect, when in fact it was 100% factually correct (and notice I said factually, because handball is now due to the laws factual, rather than an objective decision)

 

[taidgh]

I am not saying the law is right never have, and detest it.
However I am totally contesting you trying to argue and try and find misread exceptions in the law to say the decision was factually incorrect, when in fact it was 100% factually correct (and notice I said factually, because handball is now due to the laws factual, rather than an objective decision)

And that's the sad thing: that we have to deal with these shit laws that referees have no choice but to enforce.

 

[wrd]

I am not saying the law is right never have, and detest it.
However I am totally contesting you trying to argue and try and find misread exceptions in the law to say the decision was factually incorrect, when in fact it was 100% factually correct (and notice I said factually, because handball is now due to the laws factual, rather than an objective decision)

Fine but you need to explain to me this logic.

The handball is given because his arm is deemed to be in an unnatural position (by the rulebooks interpretation) right.

Then they’re are exceptions such as if the player can’t see the ball. However that exception is overruled according to you because his arm is deemed to be in an unnatural position, which was the original offence in the first place. Meaning that the exception can never be applied.

You’re literally saying the thing that nullifies the exception is what the pen was given for in the first place, if that’s the case then the exception can never be used.