Spurs and VAR

[Trotter]

There is absolutely no way our goal should have been ruled out. There STILL isn’t any clear evidence Son was offside. They had 7 men offside for their one. Not comparable. We were 2-0 up but had a legitimate goal ruled out, then lost the game. We’re not wrong for being annoyed about it.

7 men offside, smoking much ?
They had 3 players in offside positions, which actually is not an offence.
Their one player which was offside (only becomes an offence when he receives the ball basically) by about a foot, and it had been given as a goal by the officials.
Clear evidence, Son was offside ? what more do you want, there was evidence, and as good as there can be, it is offside based on the evidence, you, I and everyone else has seen. And is more better than the naked eye. Clubs, including Tottenham agreed to the implementation as it is, what you want to satisfy your want for even better evidence is totally irrelevant
OK I get it you are annoyed about it, and so am I, difference is I am not being irrational and thinking everyone is against us

 

[Spurrific]

7 men offside, smoking much ?
They had 3 players in offside positions, which actually is not an offence.
Their one player which was offside (only becomes an offence when he receives the ball basically) by about a foot, and it had been given as a goal by the officials.
Clear evidence, Son was offside ? what more do you want, there was evidence, and as good as there can be, it is offside based on the evidence, you, I and everyone else has seen. Clubs, including Tottenham agreed to the implementation as it is, what you want to satisfy your want for even better evidence is totally irrelevant
OK I get it you are annoyed about it, and so am I, difference is I am not being irrational and thinking everyone is against us

No - you're pretending to be super rational - because it makes you feel better than others. I'm not saying everyone is against us, I'm saying VAR in its current guise is not even close to being fit for purpose. What's the point in having this technology when it's just some fat, old, idiot behind the screen drawing lines on them with a box of crayons? It's not being used properly.

There is a freeze-frame image of Son, in which he is level with the defender. And as somebody pointed out earlier, there's a fairly big margin for error with the frame-rate. Logically, technically, rationally and every other -ally you can think of - there was no reason to rule that goal out. They got it wrong.

If you, and much more importantly - the powers that be, think this should be given offside, the game is going to die a death. The lines don’t even line up ffs.

 

[Trotter]

No - you're pretending to be super rational - because it makes you feel better than others. I'm not saying everyone is against us, I'm saying VAR in its current guise is not even close to being fit for purpose. What's the point in having this technology when it's just some fat, old, idiot behind the screen drawing lines on them with a box of crayons? It's not being used properly.

There is a freeze-frame image of Son, in which he is level with the defender. And as somebody pointed out earlier, there's a fairly big margin for error with the frame-rate. Logically, technically, rationally and every other -ally you can think of - there was no reason to rule that goal out. They got it wrong.

View attachment 55624
If you, and much more importantly - the powers that be, think this should be given offside, the game is going to die a death. The lines don’t even line up ffs.

Actually I don’t think it should be given, as feel there should be some tolerance allowed, just as I did with Sterling on opening day, but fully accept that with the laws of the game and the system the clubs have approved, they want it ruled out, and the VAR official is just doing what the Premier League have approved and want.

Just like I don’t think some of the accidental handball goals that have been ruled out should be but that is more to do with IFAB law changes.

 

[tony0379]

I wish I can find someone to explain to me why in Cricket Tennis and Rugby every reviewed incident is always given correct yet in Football its as bent as a £3 note.

 

[wrd]

The ref brigade in Clattenburg and Dermot have been out in force this morning talking utter bollocks. Both of them undermined themselves by trying to justify it and then ending with "Well it's the best technology we have at the moment" which is an admittance that it isn't perfect for me so therefore it should have margin.

Then they tried to go down the "Well the clubs all agreed to it" which again is further admittance of it being incorrect but that we should all shut the fuck up and accept it.

The system works based on human input and then the VAR analysing the difference. Dermot admitted the human would never see it but VAR would which shows we are at the whim of them believing the humans are using all 100% accurate data which is bullshit.

Anybody who says well it's machine based so we have to trust the technology is a fucking moron, just because I'm using a computer to write an email doesn't mean there isn't mistakes you utter ****s.

 

[Shadydan]

The ref brigade in Clattenburg and Dermot have been out in force this morning talking utter bollocks. Both of them undermined themselves by trying to justify it and then ending with "Well it's the best technology we have at the moment" which is an admittance that it isn't perfect for me so therefore it should have margin.

Then they tried to go down the "Well the clubs all agreed to it" which again is further admittance of it being incorrect but that we should all shut the fuck up and accept it.

The system works based on human input and then the VAR analysing the difference. Dermot admitted the human would never see it but VAR would which shows we are at the whim of them believing the humans are using all 100% accurate data which is bullshit.

Anybody who says well it's machine based so we have to trust the technology is a fucking moron, just because I'm using a computer to write an email doesn't mean there isn't mistakes you utter ****s.

The ref's brigade are all at it, I don't know why they always seem to stick together, they're all a bunch of nonces controlled by the fucking hive mind, they know they're wrong but they won't admit it.

The longer we go into the season the worse it will get, they've set a precedent now - they've already admitted they have made 4 errors in August when there was much more and now they've created a negative slant against themselves because everyone is going to be scrutinising decisions even more now.

I was a massive advocate of the technology and was really excited to see it being used but they've just honestly made a fucking mess of it, it's made me hate it, well done lads.

 

[wrd]

The ref's brigade are all at it, I don't know why they always seem to stick together, they're all a bunch of nonces controlled by the fucking hive mind, they know they're wrong but they won't admit it.

The longer we go into the season the worse it will get, they've set a precedent now - they've already admitted they have made 4 errors in August when there was much more and now they've created a negative slant against themselves because everyone is going to be scrutinising decisions even more now.

I was a massive advocate of the technology and was really excited to see it being used but they've just honestly made a fucking mess of it, it's made me hate it, well done lads.

They did a poor job of trying to justify it with talking about the clubs voting it and it being the best technology they have. The problem they have is that they're only looking at football from their own perspective and are being allowed to freely govern with no other perspective. They've lost sight of what the rules were introduced for in the first place. To stop unfair advantages that go against the spirit of the game. There is not a chance that Son gained an unfair advantage.

What annoys me now is having to sit back and watch asshats like Gary Neville who has a voice give his idiotic opinion and all he's concerned with is arguing against the people who don't like VAR as a whole. How about some balance, how about using the technology we have now and then saying okay can the human eye objectively see that this person is offside? If no then the benefit is given to the striker as if we can't see he's offside then you can't justify that he's gained himself an unfair advantage.

 

[spursgirls]

JJ retweeted this, saying well done that man:

 

[Blackrat1299]

The ref brigade in Clattenburg and Dermot have been out in force this morning talking utter bollocks. Both of them undermined themselves by trying to justify it and then ending with "Well it's the best technology we have at the moment" which is an admittance that it isn't perfect for me so therefore it should have margin.

Then they tried to go down the "Well the clubs all agreed to it" which again is further admittance of it being incorrect but that we should all shut the fuck up and accept it.

The system works based on human input and then the VAR analysing the difference. Dermot admitted the human would never see it but VAR would which shows we are at the whim of them believing the humans are using all 100% accurate data which is bullshit.

Anybody who says well it's machine based so we have to trust the technology is a fucking moron, just because I'm using a computer to write an email doesn't mean there isn't mistakes you utter ****s.

Your right, there's a saying in the computer world.......Garbage in garbage out therefore if the person operating the system enters incorrect data the end result will be wrong

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Ok so in what you say it has cost us, you are forgetting it cancelled out a Leicester goal, and also a Manchester City goal then, and adding a subjective decision which the referee didn’t give. Ignoring a much more blatant subjective decision which wasn’t given against us, by Lamela

At the moment I feel it has actually gained us one point (vs Man City) over what we would have gained without it, and that is it, who knows what would have happened against Leicester if they went 1 up, and were well n top at that stage, that VAR disallowed goal, gave us momentum, just like they gained it from our disallowed goal.

Huh? The decision to disallow City’s goal was correct because there is indisputable evidence that Laporte handballed it and changed the path of the ball towards Gabriel Jesus. The PL, to their credit, have been clear that any goal that involves the attacking team gaining an advantage through the use of a hand, will be disallowed.

And with regards to the Leicester goal, it’s not even disputable that it’s offside? In fact, there are two players offside. I’m pretty certain linesman have been asked to not flag offsides because VAR can check them, so I could quite easily argue that, without VAR, the linesman would’ve flagged it.

Assuming VAR gave us that stone wall penalty on Kane against Newcastle, again assuming he scored it, that’s one extra point gained. Assuming VAR gives the Aurier goal against Leicester because it’s neither clear nor obvious that Son was offside, we’d be 4 points better off.

I’m not saying we haven’t benefited from VAR, because we have, but we have benefited from correct decisions. VAR has failed us pretty spectacularly twice already, too.

 

[Blackrat1299]

@wrd I also have to say who is checking the checker?

 

[wrd]

@wrd I also have to say who is checking the checker?

This is it, as somebody pointed out if you got 10 refs to sit down and draw the line we'd get 10 different measurements, my understanding is it's just the one guy in charge of it per match. Aside from the offside calls we've also got the junior refs in the VAR room who are too scared to undermine their senior counter part on the pitch.

I'm not against VAR but they're ruining the league with it as it stands.

 

[Blackrat1299]

This is it, as somebody pointed out if you got 10 refs to sit down and draw the line we'd get 10 different measurements, my understanding is it's just the one guy in charge of it per match. Aside from the offside calls we've also got the junior refs in the VAR room who are too scared to undermine their senior counter part on the pitch.

I'm not against VAR but they're ruining the league with it as it stands.

Well they can direct a rocket to the moon, but they can't line up two lines. And what about camera angles?

 

[spursgirls]

Also, saw this:

 

[markdadude]

I wish I can find someone to explain to me why in Cricket Tennis and Rugby every reviewed incident is always given correct yet in Football its as bent as a £3 note.

football has always been bent mate. God forbid that they would implement a VAR system that makes fixing games impossible and 100% fair.

Much better the referees are seen as incompetent rather than crooked hence VAR is adopted over a decade too late for no good reason, and now that it has arrived, it's working like no one with even an ounce of intelligence put even a minute's thought into it. Come one, they are not that stupid - it's all by design!

 

[nicdic]

Gets more frustrating when Aubameyang's goal stands despite Arsenal having players in the wall, and no penalty for the Sokratis handball.

The referees don't know what they're doing anymore.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Gets more frustrating when Aubameyang's goal stands despite Arsenal having players in the wall, and no penalty for the Sokratis handball.

The referees don't know what they're doing anymore.

Considering how pedantic they have been in disallowing goals I am actually stunned they didn't pick up on this. But then I realise the team involved.

MK, sorry but that handball is a penalty every single time. Trying to defend that is a massive reach. I've got nothing against refs usually, it's a tough job, but the way they've dealt with VAR leaves a hell of a lot to be desired.

 

[Croftwoodspurs]

No - you're pretending to be super rational - because it makes you feel better than others. I'm not saying everyone is against us, I'm saying VAR in its current guise is not even close to being fit for purpose. What's the point in having this technology when it's just some fat, old, idiot behind the screen drawing lines on them with a box of crayons? It's not being used properly.

There is a freeze-frame image of Son, in which he is level with the defender. And as somebody pointed out earlier, there's a fairly big margin for error with the frame-rate. Logically, technically, rationally and every other -ally you can think of - there was no reason to rule that goal out. They got it wrong.

View attachment 55624
If you, and much more importantly - the powers that be, think this should be given offside, the game is going to die a death. The lines don’t even line up ffs.

I have looked at this picture many times.and still can't see how they call it off side... The blue line is lined up with his knee, when you can clearly see his thigh is further out, if measured with his thighs would be onside... The line have been done based on someone objective of where his furthest point is.

Also due to the rules, they have not stated if it when the ball is played or when left the foot.. I always thought it was when it was played..

With all these pictures you have a frame rate which is not fast enough to dictate the truth..

What examples were we given when presenting for us to decide, as I suspect none would have been as close as this, and they had longer to decide where the lines would have gone for the presentation.

If they were not able to decide within 45 secs if it was clearly off side then the benefit should be given.

 

[Phomesy]

Also, saw this:

If they "know" Son was 1.6 cm's offside then I guess he's offside. I'm just not sure how they "know" that. If the technology is that accurate then fine. But if it's not then there needs to some "margin of error" weighting that also goes to the official's on pitch call.

 

[wrd]

If they "know" Son was 1.6 cm's offside then I guess he's offside. I'm just not sure how they "know" that. If the technology is that accurate then fine. But if it's not then there needs to some "margin of error" weighting that also goes to the official's on pitch call.

The margin is calculated by the prick in the var room plotting two lines. The only thing they know is the computer working out the distance of two lines placed on a 2d image. They dont factually know he was 1.6 cm offside.