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Spurs and VAR

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,042
The PGMOL is no longer fit for purpose (if it ever was) all that VAR has become is a cabal or refereeing mates to afraid to over rule a decision that their mate has got wrong and this is in turn corrupting the game we all love.

It's not the technology that is getting decisions wrong, it's still people fucking up.

The standard of refereeing since the return has been abysmal, maybe it’s always been this bad but we haven’t noticed it because it’s not been on telly though.

Refs seem to get away with being shit though. Take Michael Oliver for example, who always seems to make an error of judgement at some point. Yet he’s consistently praised by the pundits as being the “best ref in the country.”

I get being a ref is a difficult job, but they don’t ever seem to learn from their mistakes. They never seem consistent with their rulings and are generally just shit at it. Surely a professional body should expect better?
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,901
24,817
The standard of refereeing since the return has been abysmal, maybe it’s always been this bad but we haven’t noticed it because it’s not been on telly though.

Refs seem to get away with being shit though. Take Michael Oliver for example, who always seems to make an error of judgement at some point. Yet he’s consistently praised by the pundits as being the “best ref in the country.”

I get being a ref is a difficult job, but they don’t ever seem to learn from their mistakes. They never seem consistent with their rulings and are generally just shit at it. Surely a professional body should expect better?
I think the problem is that fans and pundits are expecting perfection and it's just not possible. Adding technology and the chance to review things from different angles only increases that expectation of perfection.

My main issue is that I now don't really celebrate goals - I wait for VAR and that has lessened my enjoyment of football.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
It’s becoming the main reason I’m getting disillusioned with the sport. I can hack us being shit but I can’t hack us being cheated out of results every match.

That’s the reason why I couldn’t watch the Everton game earlier in the week after the Sheffield United decision, not our performance but because it’s pointless as the matches are officiated so badly. Same thing happens yesterday.

Now either it’s incompetence or something more sinister.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,042
It’s becoming the main reason I’m getting disillusioned with the sport. I can hack us being shit but I can’t hack us being cheated out of results every match.

That’s the reason why I couldn’t watch the Everton game earlier in the week after the Sheffield United decision, not our performance but because it’s pointless as the matches are officiated so badly. Same thing happens yesterday.

Now either it’s incompetence or something more sinister.

That penalty decision last night was pretty suspect imo. It was a very clear shove in the back, much more cut and dry than the penalty Dier gave away against United.

There didn’t even seem to be a review by VAR. After the Sheff Utd game I wasn’t even that annoyed by it though, I expected the decision to go the other way.
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,877
49,713
The standard of refereeing since the return has been abysmal, maybe it’s always been this bad but we haven’t noticed it because it’s not been on telly though.

Refs seem to get away with being shit though. Take Michael Oliver for example, who always seems to make an error of judgement at some point. Yet he’s consistently praised by the pundits as being the “best ref in the country.”

I get being a ref is a difficult job, but they don’t ever seem to learn from their mistakes. They never seem consistent with their rulings and are generally just shit at it. Surely a professional body should expect better?

He is doing the NLD
 

M.I.B.

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2004
1,047
2,260
He is doing the NLD

Surely, after the last week of decisions against us, he has to be removed from this game? I mean, if he makes one genuine mistake Sunday he is going to be ripped apart by Mourinho (rightly). For his sake (and ours) he has to be switched. Imagine if he rules a dodgy one in our favour?.......he will be seen to be making amends. he can't win.......and nor will we!!!
 

mr ashley

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
3,127
8,524
I understand why people feel like they can’t celebrate any goals scored any more, even though I think it’s an exaggeration.
Ive got no problem with VAR overturning an obvious howler, and understand the review process just like when a wicket is taken in cricket, or a try is scored in rugby

As a Spurs fan, having decisions go against you is just part of your football upbringing. I had hoped the playing field would be levelled up with the introduction of VAR.

But for me, the single biggest cause of my disillusionment this season has been our form. There hasn’t been a single game I expect us to win anymore. After the last few seasons, to end up here again is a real kick in the teeth.


“Alexa-play the sound of silence”
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
25,076
49,236
I'm not sure how they can now allow Michael Oliver to officiate our game on Sunday following his recent decisions. Its going to be awful
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
I understand why people feel like they can’t celebrate any goals scored any more, even though I think it’s an exaggeration.
Ive got no problem with VAR overturning an obvious howler, and understand the review process just like when a wicket is taken in cricket, or a try is scored in rugby

As a Spurs fan, having decisions go against you is just part of your football upbringing. I had hoped the playing field would be levelled up with the introduction of VAR.

But for me, the single biggest cause of my disillusionment this season has been our form. There hasn’t been a single game I expect us to win anymore. After the last few seasons, to end up here again is a real kick in the teeth.


“Alexa-play the sound of silence”

that’s not an exaggeration at all, after some of the decisions to over rule goals this year you’d be crazy to actually celebrate scoring. The biggest indicator that the goal last night was going to be ruled out was the reaction of Josh King, as all the team ran off to the corner flag he almost had a resigned look as if to say yep that’s gonna get chalked off.

The fundamental element of being a fan is that upcharge of joy you feel when your team scores a goal, it’s in that moment a release of endorphins and adrenaline. Once you have to wait for VAR to checkmultiple angles before they can allow it all those raw emotions have gone.

VAR has killed the game from a supporters point of view in my opinion and I don’t think they’ll ever be able to get it back.
 

waresy

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2004
2,421
1,569
I dont understand how the PL and the officials can continue to get so many things categorically wrong.

Common sense has disappeared, the definition of a foul is so fuzzy and the handball rule is beyond rediculous.

The technology was supposed to help matters, I would think that the area's that it could have had the most impact would be around diving, handball and contencious offsides but if the video room dont make sensible decisions it is worthless.

Taking 2 penalty shouts involving us, and trying to be balanced about it on the game rather than being a Spurs fan...

1. Dier and Pogba go shoulder to shoulder into the box, Pogba slightly ahead but really was that enough to give and warrant a penalty?
2. King puts 2 hands on Kanes back as he is going for a header - admitted as wrong!

VAR just seems to be adding another level of poor decision making that is ruining watching the game and with Spurs having a massive slump this year we could all do without that!
 

mr ashley

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
3,127
8,524
that’s not an exaggeration at all, after some of the decisions to over rule goals this year you’d be crazy to actually celebrate scoring. The biggest indicator that the goal last night was going to be ruled out was the reaction of Josh King, as all the team ran off to the corner flag he almost had a resigned look as if to say yep that’s gonna get chalked off.

The fundamental element of being a fan is that upcharge of joy you feel when your team scores a goal, it’s in that moment a release of endorphins and adrenaline. Once you have to wait for VAR to checkmultiple angles before they can allow it all those raw emotions have gone.

VAR has killed the game from a supporters point of view in my opinion and I don’t think they’ll ever be able to get it back.
I’d hazard a guess that the reason why Josh King didn’t celebrate was because he felt the ball hit his hand. In the past, players would have celebrated in an attempt to deceive the officials. It’s a step forward in terms of player honesty.
But to say you, as a fan, can’t celebrate the range of goals we have scored because of VAR is over the top, for me.
Take the Son goal v Burnley for example. You’re telling me that all the way through his run and finish, you had none of the endorphin release you talk about?
I just think we, as fans, have to have a sense of rationality about the close calls (both when we score and concede).
 

Who’s our next manager?

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2020
1,231
1,806
The people that actually make the rules have said they're not changing the handball law and it will remain that any contact at all with the arm in the build up to a goal will mean no goal.


Memories of the penalty against us in the Champions League Final.Ive looked at it a hundred times and it’s clear that all Sissoko was doing was pointing an instruction to another player.Looking at Mane’s shot, he was not shooting for goal,not crossing the ball and not aiming his pass to a teammate.He saw Sissoko’s arm and deliberately aimed for it.Even then the ball hit Sissoko and it rolled onto his arm.
I read that Liverpool had been rehearsing this move in a friendly against a Portuguese team’s reserve team (think it was Benfica) in a pre final practice game.
 

Time for Heroes

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2012
780
1,250
Memories of the penalty against us in the Champions League Final.Ive looked at it a hundred times and it’s clear that all Sissoko was doing was pointing an instruction to another player.Looking at Mane’s shot, he was not shooting for goal,not crossing the ball and not aiming his pass to a teammate.He saw Sissoko’s arm and deliberately aimed for it.Even then the ball hit Sissoko and it rolled onto his arm.
I read that Liverpool had been rehearsing this move in a friendly against a Portuguese team’s reserve team (think it was Benfica) in a pre final practice game.

And where did you hear that? Sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
It’s becoming the main reason I’m getting disillusioned with the sport. I can hack us being shit but I can’t hack us being cheated out of results every match.

That’s the reason why I couldn’t watch the Everton game earlier in the week after the Sheffield United decision, not our performance but because it’s pointless as the matches are officiated so badly. Same thing happens yesterday.

Now either it’s incompetence or something more sinister.

You need the decisions to go your way when you're as shit as we are, it's as simple as that and adds to the frustration.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
I’d hazard a guess that the reason why Josh King didn’t celebrate was because he felt the ball hit his hand. In the past, players would have celebrated in an attempt to deceive the officials. It’s a step forward in terms of player honesty.
But to say you, as a fan, can’t celebrate the range of goals we have scored because of VAR is over the top, for me.
Take the Son goal v Burnley for example. You’re telling me that all the way through his run and finish, you had none of the endorphin release you talk about?
I just think we, as fans, have to have a sense of rationality about the close calls (both when we score and concede).

Sons goal was an exception that proves the rule if anything. You can’t tell me now that every time we score a goal you don’t look at every pass that’s shown on the reply hoping that someone hasn’t got a toe nail in an offside position or the ball hasn’t brushed someone’s hand? If you do any of those things then what I’m saying is absolutely true in that you can’t 100% Truly celebrate a goal as there’s that little doubt in the back of your mind that it’s going to be ruled out.

the Sheffield Utd goal against us at the Lane is up there with the worst examples of this.
 

mightyspur

Now with lovely smooth balls
Aug 21, 2014
9,760
27,014
It definitely needs tweaking. Personally I think they need to step away from "clear and obvious error" as the only criteria for certain decisions to be overturned. The Kane push yesterday is an obvious example. Had the referee given it, then VAR would have said it was a penalty. Refs should be advised that they might want to take another look at incidents like that and go to the touchline to view it.

By restricting it to "clear and obvious" in what are often very ambiguous situations means VAR will rarely overrule the on field ref. They should be working together a lot better to come up with a collective decision, like they do in Rugby.
 

mr ashley

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
3,127
8,524
Sons goal was an exception that proves the rule if anything. You can’t tell me now that every time we score a goal you don’t look at every pass that’s shown on the reply hoping that someone hasn’t got a toe nail in an offside position or the ball hasn’t brushed someone’s hand? If you do any of those things then what I’m saying is absolutely true in that you can’t 100% Truly celebrate a goal as there’s that little doubt in the back of your mind that it’s going to be ruled out.

the Sheffield Utd goal against us at the Lane is up there with the worst examples of this.
I think there’s a huge section of middle ground you’re missing with your argument.
There are (too many) goals this season that have been ruled out, agreed. We have been on both sides of that.
But there are so many more goals that VAR hasn’t touched that can be celebrated freely. That’s my point.
I agree it’s frustrating that the current implementation of VAR feels like the officials are searching for the most inane reason to disallow certain goals.
I guess my position on this takes me to my approach to bad refs back when playing ( and now as a coach). You have to score goals that the ref can’t disallow. Those goals can be celebrated freely, and they happen more often than the close calls
 
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