Spurs and VAR

[Spurrific]

Our players are constantly looking to "win" penalties lately. It feels like they think it's our best hope of scoring most of the time as we're not carving out any clear-cut opportunities in general.

 

[Legacy]

Our players are constantly looking to "win" penalties lately. It feels like they think it's our best hope of scoring most of the time as we're not carving out any clear-cut opportunities in general.

It isn't just our players in fairness. Mane, Salah, James and Rashford also go down at least a couple of times a game too. Hell, we saw Richarlison throw himself to the ground every 10 minutes on Sunday.

 

[Trotter]

Saw something about the video framerate being mentioned in Son's thread and it really is puzzling at this age of camera technology, they are still trying to freeze frame from 25 (or 50) fps footage and check. Especially the long decision on whether Dele handballed. There is no way that frame shows any accuracy when the visual of the ball is already motion-blurry and stretched.

If VAR is about precision of fairness, they must be similarly supported by high level of precision in the equipment. When iPhone 11 is capable of 240fps at full HD, there really shouldn't be any reason the cameras used for VAR to be anything less than 720fps.

VAR doesn’t do any filming, they take their feed from the broadcasters. Sky film at 50 frames per second, which to be honest should be good enough for deciding which frame should be used for offside

 

[nicdic]

VAR doesn’t do any filming, they take their feed from the broadcasters. Sky film at 50 frames per second, which to be honest should be good enough for deciding which frame should be used for offside

OK hahahahaha

 

[Yiddo100]

Our players are constantly looking to "win" penalties lately. It feels like they think it's our best hope of scoring most of the time as we're not carving out any clear-cut opportunities in general.

What team isn’t

 

[muppetman]

Yes

I wouldn't be against this if it was applied consistently to all teams and players. Instead of using VAR for this in game I wonder if there could be a way for teams to flag issues that a panel could look at after. If a few of these happened and players received a 3 game ban it might cut down on this pretty quickly?

Richarlison was particularly poor during the game for falling over at every possible opportunity and I think it spoils the game. Basic rule should be if the contact happened outside of the game would you collapse in this fashion - if not then it's simulation.

 

[Trotter]

It isn't just our players in fairness. Mane, Salah, James and Rashford also go down at least a couple of times a game too. Hell, we saw Richarlison throw himself to the ground every 10 minutes on Sunday.

Even going back 25 years players were being trained how to best try and “win” penalties.
Players get reputations, hence why I can see why Richarlison penalty was not given by referee, even though I thought it was a foul and there was enough doubt for VAR not to overturn it.
Kane, Dele and Son all fit into the category of players that have bad reputation for diving, and we have a manager that condoned diving as legitimate a few years ago.

 

[Japhet]

If Son had gone down on the initial contact he'd have got it but it was so obvious he had balance and then leapt from his right foot. They were right not to give pen.

I'd be more than happy if this was consistently the case. However, penalties are so often given when players throw themselves to the ground unconvincingly after minimal contact. IMO, this is simulation and deserves a yellow card but that opinion is always greeted with 'But if the player doesn't go over the penalty won't be given'. I'm of the opinion that there's a distinct difference between contact and a foul (and I also hate cheats of any description).

 

[wrd]

I'd be more than happy if this was consistently the case. However, penalties are so often given when players throw themselves to the ground unconvincingly after minimal contact. IMO, this is simulation and deserves a yellow card but that opinion is always greeted with 'But if the player doesn't go over the penalty won't be given'. I'm of the opinion that there's a distinct difference between contact and a foul (and I also hate cheats of any description).

Yeah agreed it's a contact sport, we also lose our right to moan when other teams do it if we say well everyone else does it why shouldn't we, makes us part of the problem. agree with @Spurrific we are doing it a lot lately, Rose vs Watford springs to mind, Kane has been trying to shift his weight over to buy the foul a lot and I'm disappointed by it. I'm fine with players being street smart and knowing to get themselves between the ball and the player and draw the foul but we're not waiting for the defender to make the mistake, we're trying to force the mistake when it's not there and there's a difference for me.

 

[teedee]

Even going back 25 years players were being trained how to best try and “win” penalties.
Players get reputations, hence why I can see why Richarlison penalty was not given by referee, even though I thought it was a foul and there was enough doubt for VAR not to overturn it.
Kane, Dele and Son all fit into the category of players that have bad reputation for diving, and we have a manager that condoned diving as legitimate a few years ago.

A bit more than 25 years. Francis Lee, for example, was a serial diver in opposing penalty areas.

 

[Japhet]

Yeah agreed it's a contact sport, we also lose our right to moan when other teams do it if we say well everyone else does it why shouldn't we, makes us part of the problem. agree with @Spurrific we are doing it a lot lately, Rose vs Watford springs to mind, Kane has been trying to shift his weight over to buy the foul a lot and I'm disappointed by it. I'm fine with players being street smart and knowing to get themselves between the ball and the player and draw the foul but we're not waiting for the defender to make the mistake, we're trying to force the mistake when it's not there and there's a difference for me.

I'd be much happier if Refs yellow carded a whole lot more players for simulation tbh. I remember way back when the argument was that we had to get better at it because the continental teams were always getting results from it. I've never seen it as anything other than cheating.

 

[Trotter]

A bit more than 25 years. Francis Lee, for example, was a serial diver in opposing penalty areas.

I know he was, and there are quite a few other examples, difference they weren’t trained by clubs to do it, whereas they are nowadays at many.

 

[jacko73]

Yes but the tackle didn’t make him fall. So he hasn’t prevented son from doing anything. Son chose to fall to the ground.

i don’t believe diving should be encouraged - even if it’s my team.

I feel that the defenders are tripping and falling diagonally to impede the strike(bloody hell even Allen Smith thinks it's a pen)r, this is not natural and it means that the attacker has to now go so much closer to the keeper to be free from that defender, or turn away from goal to even have a shot. You cant shoot when someone's body weight is leaning on you if you do it will be weak. I, like you, do not like the dive and don't want to see anyone do it even my team. But if he stays on his feet, how would he then get a shot off, he would have to go around the body delaying the shot and allowing the defenders to get closer to him or narrowed the angle so much that your chances of scoring decrease. Mina even does a couple of rolls towards son to make him evade him for good measure.

Lascelles

Mina

I cant believe The EPL are using a technological advance to go down to a ref's level when we should be using this to help refs. We already thought refs were shit, but the way Var is being used we now think both are shit. It makes me think the game is bent, they want us to get rid of this for them so we can use the shit refs again.

Why not let the ref see the action again on the screen and we hear what they are saying like in Rugby, that way the fans are still aware of what is going on and are part of the process. The way they they are working at the moment it feels like they are superior and get to make a final call in private between 2 parties, it's so stupid.

 

[teedee]

I know he was, and there are quite a few other examples, difference they weren’t trained by clubs to do it, whereas they are nowadays at many.

Maybe not trained by their clubs, but it was condoned by them.

 

[yankspurs]

Our players are constantly looking to "win" penalties lately. It feels like they think it's our best hope of scoring most of the time as we're not carving out any clear-cut opportunities in general.

The majority of the Premier League has been searching for penalties since VAR was introduced. It wont stop until it’s punished, whether theres contact or not. If there is minor contact, and you fall over that should be a dive. If you go sprinting into the box to get the ball off a defender with no intention to shoot then theres contact(i call this the scott mctominay special), it should be a dive. That will be the only way to stop this unless VAR is done away with.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

If Son had gone down on the initial contact he'd have got it but it was so obvious he had balance and then leapt from his right foot. They were right not to give pen.

Initial contact was a foul as it slowed his momentum. Sons error was to carry on and then go down. If the refs did their jobs properly they would give pens for the original fouls but they don’t hence players dive.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Yes but the tackle didn’t make him fall. So he hasn’t prevented son from doing anything. Son chose to fall to the ground.

i don’t believe diving should be encouraged - even if it’s my team.

But he infringed Son. It slowed his momentum and opportunities to attack. Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a free kick. Sons actions And many others are forced by poor referees.

 

[wrd]

Initial contact was a foul as it slowed his momentum. Sons error was to carry on and then go down. If the refs did their jobs properly they would give pens for the original fouls but they don’t hence players dive.

I'd say if he had gone down with the momentum of mina squashing his left leg then he'd have got the penalty but as soon as he stayed upright and leapt off his right foot he was never going to get that penalty, I think was you try and fall to the floor through your own force then you lose the penalty decision. We can talk about the refs doing their job properly but fact off the matter is Son wasn't brought to the ground based on the contact from the everton player. Whether he was impeded or not is debatable because he was able to move freely to jump to the ground.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I'd say if he had gone down with the momentum of mina squashing his left leg then he'd have got the penalty but as soon as he stayed upright and leapt off his right foot he was never going to get that penalty, I think was you try and fall to the floor through your own force then you lose the penalty decision. We can talk about the refs doing their job properly but fact off the matter is Son wasn't brought to the ground based on the contact from the everton player. Whether he was impeded or not is debatable because he was able to move freely to jump to the ground.

Of course he was impeded. Sons error was trying to carry on and then dropping like a stone. He was prevented from playing by a foul. Therefore a free kick which is therefore a pen. Therefore a refereeing error. That’s why they will never let an ex player sit on the panel because the referees will be found out on their poor ability to understand the game.

 

[dudu]

Initial contact was a foul as it slowed his momentum. Sons error was to carry on and then go down. If the refs did their jobs properly they would give pens for the original fouls but they don’t hence players dive.

Deulofeu's pen for Watford on the weekend was pretty similar in my opinion, that was given. He carried on running and when realised he couldn't get the ball he went down.

I guess the thinking behind his was that the Chelsea defender who kicked him, kicked the leg that he was using to run onto the ball but in reality, it was not really any different to the Son situation. The leg his weight was on was impeded.