Spurs and VAR

[sparx100]

He fucked up but I feel you can sense how much he was rushing during the check. It felt like there's a lot of pressure to get these checks done fast to not slow down the game.

The 10 seconds of silence after the RO brought it up was something. I think it's a known reaction to shut down when you begin to realize a catastrophic error has occurred.

Agree with this. Rugby and cricket have it nailed. They have clear communication and it takes however long it takes to make that decision.

VAR is still relatively new. The concept of it is quite correct but the application of it needs to improve.

 

[sparx100]

Nah wouldn't work. Players/managers would use any unused reviews to disrupt the flow of the game in the dying minutes...they can't be involved in it.
The flow of football and cricket is very different...the ball is in play in cricket for a much lower % of the time the players are on the field.

There were always going to be bumps in the VAR road. The reason its works well (although still not perfectly) in Rugby is because they've been using it and ironing it out since 2001.

Saying that I'd happily chuck the whole lot in the bin just to be able to properly celebrate scoring a goal when it actually happens again.

... I miss that

This latest saga is just going to mean longer delays to finally confirm goals because the VAR are going to be terrified of fucking up.

I think it needs clearer communication including the referee. The referee should be aware of the conversation taking place and even involved at the touchline on the screen.

It doesn't need a committee, but it needs rightly qualified people in charge.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I know this was a particularly absurd cock-up, but hopefully a one-off that's easy enough to prevent in future.

But isn't the real problem that we are yet again allowing the minutiae of an especially awkward law, offside, to dictate the entire flow of the game to a ridiculously disproportionate degree?

Why are we allowing microscopic measurements by a machine to totally disrupt the game? There has never been a case where one or two millimetres have genuinely changed a fair goal into an unfair goal.

Wouldn't we be better off allowing the game to flow as it did for over a century before VAR, and by and large trust the officials? Use VAR for absolutely factual matters where millimetres do matter like whether the ball crossed the goal line.

And let the game breathe freely again.

 

[vegassd]

But in the "good old days" he would have been flagged offside 35 yards from goal and wouldn't have got the shot off. So no one would know if he scored or not, it would just go down as a slight chance and people would get on with it.

The fact the flag stays down and the goal is scored is what causes the controversy.

Overall I agree though and think as long as it's used properly its good. Hate not being able to celebrate a goal though

Oh yeah, in that instance we would never know if Diaz puts it in the back of the net or not. But that wouldn't stop fans from being annoyed about it, because the call wasn't all that close and it's putting a striker through for a chance.

My main point is about the idea of the game being better without VAR. The conversation would very quickly turn back to the game being played at such a pace that referees and assistant refs should receive some help from the available technology. Always going to be a bit of "grass is greener" I guess.

I agreed with some of what Klopp was saying about having a proper conversation about VAR. There's no point getting opinions from managers after a match because they will tend to be biased. But if there can be some sort of review process every year about ways to improve the system, that should get it all on the right track.

 

[mil1lion]

I know this was a particularly absurd cock-up, but hopefully a one-off that's easy enough to prevent in future.

But isn't the real problem that we are yet again allowing the minutiae of an especially awkward law, offside, to dictate the entire flow of the game to a ridiculously disproportionate degree?

Why are we allowing microscopic measurements by a machine to totally disrupt the game? There has never been a case where one or two millimetres have genuinely changed a fair goal into an unfair goal.

Wouldn't we be better off allowing the game to flow as it did for over a century before VAR, and by and large trust the officials? Use VAR for absolutely factual matters where millimetres do matter like whether the ball crossed the goal line.

And let the game breathe freely again.

To be fair on this one Diaz is clearly onside. When they freeze the frame and put the lines on he's a good yard onside. So this is one of those situations where VAR should be used and was. They just didn't communicate it properly to the ref.

 

[Dazzazzad]

And let the game breathe freely again.

I think people have a revisionist idea of how things were before VAR. More mistakes, more subjective influence (big teams, home crowd, etc.) and lots of anger.

It would be even worse now we've seen VAR snuff out a lot of the type of mistakes that used to be common.

I would just try and use VAR less (maybe captains, like in cricket) can use it twice a game or something like that or for only really big decisions.

VAR needs to be used better, not scrapped imo.

 

[greaves]

I think people have a revisionist idea of how things were before VAR. More mistakes, more subjective influence (big teams, home crowd, etc.) and lots of anger.

It would be even worse now we've seen VAR snuff out a lot of the type of mistakes that used to be common.

I would just try and use VAR less (maybe captains, like in cricket) can use it twice a game or something like that or for only really big decisions.

VAR needs to be used better, not scrapped imo.

Yep. The real mistake was made by the assistant ref. The VAR business has become something of a red herring.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

To be fair on this one Diaz is clearly onside. When they freeze the frame and put the lines on he's a good yard onside. So this is one of those situations where VAR should be used and was. They just didn't communicate it properly to the ref.

Yes.

But that’s sort of my point. That’s what we call a clear and obvious error, and that’s fair enough. It should be corrected.

But we are now frequently holding up games for matters of a millimetre or two. If it’s that close, it’s not an offence. Do any of us believe the odd millimeter during a fast-moving passage of play represents an unfair advantage?

So let the ref decide, and only use VAR if it really feels like a major factual mistake has been made.

It’s not the fault of VAR.

It’s our fault for trying to turn a game of spontaneous action, skill and judgement in which human error is an inevitable part, into a matter of cold scientific analysis.

 

[spursfan1991]

There needs to be a checklist system like they do for LBWs in cricket. It wont solve all the problems as there is still subjectivity but i think it will reduce some crying from pundits/fans of the big sides.

In cricket, for LBWs for example,

Did the ball pitch outside leg stump? yes/no
if no, move on to next question.

Was impact in line with stumps?
yes/no, if yes, move onto final checklist question.

Is it hitting the stumps?
yes/no

They need something similar for handballs, penalties and red cards. For example, for red cards, it could be:

was contact made? yes/no

Did it endanger the opponent? yes/no
yes = red card.

Something along those lines thats visible to pundits and the fans.

 

[Japhet]

For those not on Twitter, It's a video about how many big decisons that teams in the "Top 6" have had go for them v against. Below is a screenshot of the results.

View attachment 132922

No surprises there then.

 

[Saoirse]

There needs to be a checklist system like they do for LBWs in cricket. It wont solve all the problems as there is still subjectivity but i think it will reduce some crying from pundits/fans of the big sides.

In cricket, for LBWs for example,

Did the ball pitch outside leg stump? yes/no
if no, move on to next question.

Was impact in line with stumps?
yes/no, if yes, move onto final checklist question.

Is it hitting the stumps?
yes/no

They need something similar for handballs, penalties and red cards. For example, for red cards, it could be:

was contact made? yes/no

Did it endanger the opponent? yes/no
yes = red card.

Something along those lines thats visible to pundits and the fans.

It's a balance between speed and accuracy though. Ultimately I'll take quicker decisions keeping up the pace of the game even if it means one howler every 380 game season.

 

[vegassd]

But we are now frequently holding up games for matters of a millimetre or two. If it’s that close, it’s not an offence. Do any of us believe the odd millimeter during a fast-moving passage of play represents an unfair advantage?

So let the ref decide, and only use VAR if it really feels like a major factual mistake has been made.

Something that is so good about the Hawkeye system in cricket is that it has the "Umpire's call" option built in. If that was added to VAR for offside decisions it would make a huge improvement I reckon. The refs on the pitch can still be encouraged to flag late for stuff.

The Diaz thing is just a fuck up by the people, not the technology. The replay operator sounded like the only person aware of the full situation, so if somebody without ref training can make these calls that seems like a decent route to pursue for VAR... at least for offside decisions.

 

[SurreySpur82]

Something that is so good about the Hawkeye system in cricket is that it has the "Umpire's call" option built in. If that was added to VAR for offside decisions it would make a huge improvement I reckon. The refs on the pitch can still be encouraged to flag late for stuff.

The Diaz thing is just a fuck up by the people, not the technology. The replay operator sounded like the only person aware of the full situation, so if somebody without ref training can make these calls that seems like a decent route to pursue for VAR... at least for offside decisions.

Offside calls should be automated, they have the technology to do it. Have an in-built error margin so anything a nasal hair offside would be "Referees call". Leave the subjective stuff for red cards and penalties.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

For those not on Twitter, It's a video about how many big decisons that teams in the "Top 6" have had go for them v against. Below is a screenshot of the results.

View attachment 132922

Ha shock Liverpool and Man.U the darlings of the PL get preferential treatment yet when something goes against them they are allowed to go cry to mummy and daddy.

Such is life.

 

[easley91]

Offside calls should be automated, they have the technology to do it. Have an in-built error margin so anything a nasal hair offside would be "Referees call". Leave the subjective stuff for red cards and penalties.

And yet several clubs didn't want the semi automated offside system. I will never understand why they didn't agree to something that worked at the two world cups.

 

[greaves]

Offside calls should be automated, they have the technology to do it. Have an in-built error margin so anything a nasal hair offside would be "Referees call". Leave the subjective stuff for red cards and penalties.

I like the ref call, as per cricket. But all of this VAR process will slow the game/ break it up and damage enjoyment. Cricket embraces ‘breaks’ since they are within the warp and weft of that game.