Match Threads Southampton vs Spurs - Match Thread - Day 2

[spursgirls]

This is from the Premier League's web site regarding the change this season to the handball rule:

"It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby."

This means that Southampton should not have had a penalty today. As if it wasn't bad enough that the introduction of VAR has brought uncertainty into the game, we get a ref today who doesn't even know the rules that he should be applying.

Is that up to date? I thought this was a recent change, to award a penalty if it hits an arm or hand for any reason?

 

[dondo]

Crazy that we play Winks and want to get rid of Dele!!!!!

They are not comparable Dele is a 2nd striker or no 10 Wink is a deep midfield player

 

[Real_madyidd]

This is from the Premier League's web site regarding the change this season to the handball rule:

"It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby."

This means that Southampton should not have had a penalty today. As if it wasn't bad enough that the introduction of VAR has brought uncertainty into the game, we get a ref today who doesn't even know the rules that he should be applying.

Good point. Their first goal should gave stood.

 

[seanyboy]

Isn't all this negativity about our attack after scoring f i v e goals a bit misplaced? Lots of teams play high lines in defense against good attacking teams... are we saying the only strategy against good teams is to park the bus? So when we meet the likes of Champions League level teams, we should just sit and defend all game and any team who doesn't is naive? Let's try not to have it both ways.

Maybe, just maybe, our attack m a d e the defense look shitty because of the timing of the runs (obv sometimes movement a bit early) and the ability we have to make good through passes. Something we probably couldn't have said about the squad for quite a while now. The movement is miles better than last season.

Too much angst. Green shoots. Patience.

 

[Cochise]

Leicester won a title off of sitting back and releasing Vardy into the space behind. That year hardly any teams thought about how to nullify him until they were way ahead of the competition. Liverpool have consitently done well doing the same, albeit with two players getting in behind as opposed to one. Then we have UTD who pretty much won all their top 6 head to heads last year playing on the counter and utilising Rashford and Martial's pace.

Anyway, back to ourselves.

After watching today, it was obvious that whilst GLC made a difference, Lamela was even more valuable. His ability to act as an extra midfielder, his ability to play with his back to goal and find those holes in front of their defence was massive. Up until that moment, Moura was too one dimensional, but his defensive work secured our right flank. Son on the other hand was probably guilty of giving Southampton too much space in front of Davies and we were lucky not to have conceded more.

Winks still looks hopeless defensively, which marks him out as a clear issue in the team. Hojbjerg tends to chase and hustle, whereas Winks is meant to read things better, but he doesn't. The first half was a great example of why having a commanding CB and a defensive reader of the game in midfield are massively important.

Dier and Sanchez cannot play together. Neither can lead the defensive pack and need someone to shot call next to them. Adams and Ings both spent large amount of time unmarked as neither of them (our two CBs) wanted to break ranks, nor seemingly notify Winks and Hojbjerg that there was a man in space behind them.

 

[GutBucket]

No chain from Kane to Son because Kane passed only 4 times to him, I guess he should do it more often . Looks better than against Everton without Dele and Kane basically playing the same position, Davies was WB and Docherty more traditional FB, Hojbjerg slightly more advanced than Winks. To get the best out Winks he can't be the one sitting deepest, he played well in England when he was running forward with the ball.

 

[Gassin's finest]

No chain from Kane to Son because Kane passed only 4 times to him, I guess he should do it more often . Looks better than against Everton without Dele and Kane basically playing the same position, Davies was WB and Docherty more traditional FB, Hojbjerg slightly more advanced than Winks. To get the best out Winks he can't be the one sitting deepest, he played well in England when he was running forward with the ball. View attachment 74455

Always said Winks was wasted in the double pivot. Would much more suit a mezalla/double 8 role.

 

[peterballb]

Happy with the three points. Kane and Son offer a glimpse in to what Kane Bale and Son may bring. I also thought Ndombele and Lo Celso showed what we need in behind (Lamela too).

There are some concerns though from the three games.

First, all three games, a set piece from about 25 yards out on Lloris' right, has had us completely at 6's and 7's. A goal in each of the previous games and, but for a brilliant reaction save by Lloris, would have been three in a row. Why are we chasing players instead of attacking the ball? Horrid defending. We look completely lost at the back. Ledders et al, get this sorted, asap.

So want Dier back at DMF. At a minimum, he gets a foot in and puts his body on the line. No clue what Winks is doing. Hojbjerg (perhaps trying too hard) is often overplaying and going right by opposition players he is supposed to be stopping. I'll let him settle in, but Winks, there's no excuse. Watching Skipp in the Norwich MF has me thinking the wrong one is out on loan. How can we have 2 DMF and be overrun in the defensive MF? We just back up and back up. All three games. We should be dominating in MF. Everton made us look like we were a Championship Team. Southampton had their chances.

If we are to play counter-attack football, we need to dominate the possession in MF and be solid at the back. Hope it's just a work in progress. These are not players new to the PL. We need a presence there.

Moura, IMO, offers far less than Lamela and Bergwijn. I would likely start Bergwijn (as I believe he has a huge upside), and bring on Lamela or Moura depending on what we need. If it's out and out pace, or to press to protect a lead, it would be Moura. If for guile, or that little edge and creativity, it would be Lamela.

Do we practice dead balls at all? We are just terrible, at both ends, on corners and free kicks. These are free plays. They can be worked on. There should be a plan.

Lastly, cannot stand VAR application. Why was the offsides rule not changed? What is being applied is not in keeping with the spirit of the rule. Son has, in just over a year, been offside at least 4 times by what appears to be a mm each time. And I see little evidence that they are fussing as much over when the ball was actually off the foot of the passer. Surely there is a better way to do it or at least a way that is more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. Handball was ridiculous too. They talk about unnatural position outside of the silhouette. Well, how is a defender, who is back-pedalling, supposed to have his arms at his side? Doherty, had his hand out, controlling the attacker. Ball deflects off of Winks and on to his arm. A 2m circle would have had all three players inside. It's as bad as Moura being pushed from behind, falling, trying to catch himself against the turf, facing the opposite direction of the ball, having the defender kick the ball and having it go off his arm to Harry Kane and chalked off as hand ball. These decisions defy all logic. Zero intent and zero ability for it to have been otherwise.

Back at it again Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. Need for DL to get on a CB and ST. The need is immediate.

 

[glacierSpurs]

No chain from Kane to Son because Kane passed only 4 times to him, I guess he should do it more often . Looks better than against Everton without Dele and Kane basically playing the same position, Davies was WB and Docherty more traditional FB, Hojbjerg slightly more advanced than Winks. To get the best out Winks he can't be the one sitting deepest, he played well in England when he was running forward with the ball. View attachment 74455

These stats show how amazing and useful Lamela was despite coming on just as a sub.

 

[Jenko]

4 terrific assists from Kane. But some pundits - including the ubiquitous Alex Scott - say if he doesn’t score he’s had a bad game.

Well in fairness, Harry himself probably thinks that way. Not today though

 

[Legacy]

Good point. Their first goal should gave stood.

Wrong. It was disallowed for 3 reasons.

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
  • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
  • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Wrong. It was disallowed for 3 reasons.

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
  • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
  • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm

The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Much like a man in orthopedic shoes, I stand corrected.

 

[O'Brien]

Happy with the three points. Kane and Son offer a glimpse in to what Kane Bale and Son may bring. I also thought Ndombele and Lo Celso showed what we need in behind (Lamela too).

There are some concerns though from the three games.

First, all three games, a set piece from about 25 yards out on Lloris' right, has had us completely at 6's and 7's. A goal in each of the previous games and, but for a brilliant reaction save by Lloris, would have been three in a row. Why are we chasing players instead of attacking the ball? Horrid defending. We look completely lost at the back. Ledders et al, get this sorted, asap.

So want Dier back at DMF. At a minimum, he gets a foot in and puts his body on the line. No clue what Winks is doing. Hojbjerg (perhaps trying too hard) is often overplaying and going right by opposition players he is supposed to be stopping. I'll let him settle in, but Winks, there's no excuse. Watching Skipp in the Norwich MF has me thinking the wrong one is out on loan. How can we have 2 DMF and be overrun in the defensive MF? We just back up and back up. All three games. We should be dominating in MF. Everton made us look like we were a Championship Team. Southampton had their chances.

If we are to play counter-attack football, we need to dominate the possession in MF and be solid at the back. Hope it's just a work in progress. These are not players new to the PL. We need a presence there.

Moura, IMO, offers far less than Lamela and Bergwijn. I would likely start Bergwijn (as I believe he has a huge upside), and bring on Lamela or Moura depending on what we need. If it's out and out pace, or to press to protect a lead, it would be Moura. If for guile, or that little edge and creativity, it would be Lamela.

Do we practice dead balls at all? We are just terrible, at both ends, on corners and free kicks. These are free plays. They can be worked on. There should be a plan.

Lastly, cannot stand VAR application. Why was the offsides rule not changed? What is being applied is not in keeping with the spirit of the rule. Son has, in just over a year, been offside at least 4 times by what appears to be a mm each time. And I see little evidence that they are fussing as much over when the ball was actually off the foot of the passer. Surely there is a better way to do it or at least a way that is more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. Handball was ridiculous too. They talk about unnatural position outside of the silhouette. Well, how is a defender, who is back-pedalling, supposed to have his arms at his side? Doherty, had his hand out, controlling the attacker. Ball deflects off of Winks and on to his arm. A 2m circle would have had all three players inside. It's as bad as Moura being pushed from behind, falling, trying to catch himself against the turf, facing the opposite direction of the ball, having the defender kick the ball and having it go off his arm to Harry Kane and chalked off as hand ball. These decisions defy all logic. Zero intent and zero ability for it to have been otherwise.

Back at it again Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. Need for DL to get on a CB and ST. The need is immediate.

Hey Peter, great to see you posting, hope all is well.

 

[UbeAstard]

Is that up to date? I thought this was a recent change, to award a penalty if it hits an arm or hand for any reason?

That quote from spud is my last understanding of the rules so didn't think the Southampton pen would have been given. I understand the Palace one though as it blocked a direct shot on goal so it follows the rules though I don't agree with the rules. I really don't understand the pundits kicking off over the Palace one though, they should know the rules or their punditry is useless. And then Neville carrying on about the penalty retake by saying the keeper was millimetres off his line. The rules don't give an allowance to be off the line.

 

[spursgirls]

That quote from spud is my last understanding of the rules so didn't think the Southampton would have been given. I understand the Palace one though as it blocked a direct shot on goal so it follows the rules though I don't agree with the rules. I really don't understand the pundits kicking off over the Palace one though, they should know the rules or their punditry is useless. And then Neville carrying on about the penalty retake by saying the keeper was millimetres off his line. The rules don't give an allowance to be off the line.

Apparently the law states it's applicable even if the ball comes "directly from the head or body of another player who is close"

 

[UbeAstard]

Isn't all this negativity about our attack after scoring f i v e goals a bit misplaced? Lots of teams play high lines in defense against good attacking teams... are we saying the only strategy against good teams is to park the bus? So when we meet the likes of Champions League level teams, we should just sit and defend all game and any team who doesn't is naive? Let's try not to have it both ways.

Maybe, just maybe, our attack m a d e the defense look shitty because of the timing of the runs (obv sometimes movement a bit early) and the ability we have to make good through passes. Something we probably couldn't have said about the squad for quite a while now. The movement is miles better than last season.

Too much angst. Green shoots. Patience.

We're not the only ones saying it. Respected pundits are too.

 

[peterballb]

Hey Peter, great to see you posting, hope all is well.

Yes, all is well thank you. Hope you are doing great and that you are managing the new covid reality here in the GTAA.

optimistic about this season. There are things that need to be righted asap with Spurs.

 

[Mr Pink]

Feeling a big performance from Dele today

Took Son out for Dele

Doors always open for advise for fantasy football lol

 

[Mighty Spurs]

Great comeback, Kane, and Son had one of their best games for a while. I cannot understand why Winks was picked ahead of Lamela, Sissoko. He is a fringe player at best. Busy week coming up on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. I expect a bit of rotation. COYS!!!!.

 

[Cochise]

The full game is available on the website. How comes?