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Sin-bin trial plan recommended for professional games

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
17,592
32,667
In theory this should be good but I think it’ll probably be more bullshit. At least they’re limiting it to dissent and cynical fouls although I think they should’ve just left it at dissent as that is a lot more objective. Tell the players before the game anyone who isn’t the captain coming up to me shouting and going mad goes in the bin. You’ll probably have a load of people going in the bin for the first few months but they should, in theory, all cotton on pretty quick.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,350
20,130
I just can't help but think this is bringing in a level of subjectivity that is going to be almost impossible to be consistent about. Fans are crying out to be able to just watch a match free of interminable delays over whether the ball deflected onto the hand, whether the defender's toe grazed the attackers sock, or whether the centre forward's eyebrow was offside. Now added to that matches are going to end up 9 v 8 with players coming and going every 10 minutes and everyone losing track of what the hell's going on.

One example: the goalkeeper is sent to the sin bin and an outfield player has to go in goal. Fine, the game is stopped and so jerseys are swapped and on we go. After 10 minutes the 'keeper can return to play. Only he needs to swap jerseys again and get the gloves back. The game is still going on. Has he got to continue as an outfield player until there's a throw-in? Is he going to be forced to stand on the touchline until play stops, possibly making his 10 minute sin-bin an arbitrary 15 minutes?

Just stop fucking about with the game.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,081
6,262
So essentially they're trying to copy rugby without considering how rugby matches are ref'd, the level of respect given to rugby ref's and the much higher quality of refereeing/TMO-ing?
I've made this suggestion before, but I'll try again. There should be a blue card alongside the yellow and red, for all the niggly stuff, abuse, going slow and confrontation of the ref, that sort of thing. You can get any number of blue cards, and it doesn't lead to a sending off, but if you accumulate too many, you get a ban. So it doesn't spoil an individual game, but it puts pressure on the players to change their behaviour.
 

cwy21

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2009
10,178
9,111
I'll be curious to see the language used for the trial. Dissent is pretty straight forward. The tactical fouls one is much more interesting. Would it be all tactical fouls (those which are given a caution for stopping a promising attack (SPA)) or would the ref try to use some threshold above a yellow but below a red?
 

jackson

SC Supporter
Jan 27, 2006
1,292
3,069
It's a good idea in theory to stop tactical fouls but most likely terrible in practice as they'll surely need to be checked by VAR to determine if it was actually a foul in the first place and just another layer of subjectivity to wade through
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,441
11,574
I'll be curious to see the language used for the trial. Dissent is pretty straight forward. The tactical fouls one is much more interesting. Would it be all tactical fouls (those which are given a caution for stopping a promising attack (SPA)) or would the ref try to use some threshold above a yellow but below a red?
But that’s where a ten minute sin bin works so well, whether it’s players crowding a ref whereby a captain can get binned for not controlling his players (he is the lead voice on the pitch after all so should control them) dissent to the ref, professional fouls, diving etc.
First few weeks the players won’t know what’s hit them but it’d actually get them to sort out their on field bullshit.
If reffed properly it’d sort out the players with their on field nonsense and petulance but the only way it works properly is if we have competent refs who command respect on the pitch, unfortunately though since var came in it’s almost like they’ve got worse and are afraid of making or sticking to a decision.
Take VAR out of the equation and let refs run the game without fear of VAR shouting in their ear telling them they’ve made a wrong call and I think ref’s might actually start to get their bollocks back
 

Finchyid

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2017
3,922
12,242
Personally think it should have happened years ago because I don’t think VAR would have then existed.

Wouldn’t change anything, would just add to the complexity as others have said.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,351
57,940
It's a good idea in theory to stop tactical fouls but most likely terrible in practice as they'll surely need to be checked by VAR to determine if it was actually a foul in the first place and just another layer of subjectivity to wade through


There are loads of situations where tactical foul are given when there has been zero contact.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,523
48,307
I agree with those questioning how it would work for 'cynical fouls' as that is subjective and will just cause a whole load of nonsense.

But for dissent? Absolutely yes please.

It's pathetic what footballers get away with in terms of their 'interactions' with referees.

Give them 10 minutes in the bin every time they whinge to the ref and start docking their pay for every minute they spend in the bin.
 

Moonie

Whiteboards are remarkable
Jan 31, 2013
908
3,881
I personally don’t want anymore stupid ideas going into the game which is bound to cause more controversy. I think sin bin should only be used for players abusing the ref, something he will know 100% and make the right call. This would hopefully stop players surrounding the ref and being dicks. Bad tackles will always be part of the game, whether intentional or mistimed. If something is missed in game (such as a punch, spitting, very clear anger lash outs) then they can be dealt with after the game and banned appropriately.

The new Wenger offside rule I quite like, it’s got to be clear and very obvious, a situation that can be seen with one glance of VAR, no silly lines being drawn and dragging on for 10 mins.

Mistakes will always happen, human error will never be eradicated.
 

Col_M

Pointing out the Obvious
Feb 28, 2012
22,906
46,213
Can we stick Referees and Linos in the Sin Bin?
 

dace

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2014
339
783
Going to create more stoppages and ruin the game even more than VAR is ruining it, games will be even more stop start and extra time will be crazy .. just my take on it !
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,350
20,130
Going to create more stoppages and ruin the game even more than VAR is ruining it, games will be even more stop start and extra time will be crazy .. just my take on it !
Trying to think of any rule change/innovation of the last 30ish years that have actively made watching football - either in the stadium or on TV - better. The back-pass rule I think definitely did, but what else? Goal line tech, though that very seldom comes into play. Everything else just causes more controversy and more delays.
 
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TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,259
2,883
I am unsure about the sin bin idea becuase I don't trust the officials / VAR to use it correctly / consistently and I think that the team that goes down to 10 men can just all sit behind the ball for 10 mins (assuming it is a favourable scoreline).

I would like to know what percentage of all yellow cards are awarded for the 'professional foul' - the one that stops a counter attack / overlaod situation etc. I think that if the sin bin idea is brought in, then this type of foul should be an automatic sin bin - not just a yellow. It will cut a lot of it out.
 

Kingellesar

This is the way
May 2, 2005
8,830
9,388
It won't work.

Firstly officials can't even keep the correct time as it is, let alone sorting out the timing of the sin bin.
Secondly its hard enough for injured players getting back on the pitch, with the referees constantly ignoring them, so how will they manage with getting players back on from the sin bin.

Thirdly....just stop messing with the game, VAR is a joke, its made football a much less entertaining game to watch. I love the NFL but football is slowly transitioning into an American sport, constant stoppages. Soon we will have commercial timeouts whilst VAR take a detailed look at an incident.

Also it's not surprise that there seems to be a record number of injuries this season....because of all the stoppages/added time, the more we keep messing with the game, the worse it is going to become. The one thing they should be changing is the squad size, we could've certainly done with a bigger squad this season with how quickly our players are dropping.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,350
20,130
........Soon we will have commercial timeouts whilst VAR take a detailed look at an incident.
Actually surprised no-one has thought of that yet.

"The referee is telling the player to hold the throw-in, we're going to have an 888 Casino VAR check for a possible penalty. Back after a word from our sponsor."
 

Mycroft Jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
361
643
I'm told some grassroots leagues use it but I've never seen it. Even then as far as I know it's only for dissent.
 

cwy21

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2009
10,178
9,111
So after thinking about how sin bins would work on tactical fouls this is my idea.

First a few phrases from the laws.

Stopping a Promising Attack (SPA) - This is what most fans call a tactical or cynical foul. It's basically the yellow card version of Denying an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity (DOGSO)

Reckless - This is what makes a hard tackle a yellow card. The ref decides it reaches the threshold of being reckless and therefore is a yellow (Many pundits and fans use this phrase for a red card tackle but in the laws it is for a yellow)

For denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity we already have the idea of attempting to play the ball making DOGSO in the penalty area be "downgraded" to a yellow. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to apply the same "attempt to play the ball" concept to SPA/Tactical fouls. If you tried to play the ball then it's just a yellow. If not (or is a hold/push) then it's a yellow+sin bin.

However, I'd worry about this opening up defenders making some pretty hard slide tackles in a situation they would currently grab the shirt of the attacker to maintain the part where "they tried to play the ball". So I'd add a second clause which is if a foul was both reckless and SPA then it should also upgrade to a sin bin.
 
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