Sam Kerr

[Ron Burgundy]

Hmm, so no one comes out of this well IMO

 

[superted4]

Hasn’t the copper changed his statement since the original file was turned down by the CPS??

 

[Atomic Blonde]

It really doesn't. She's sat in a police station, clearly not under any form of duress, making racist comments.
She's a fucking moron.

Lol
You're just plucking one sentence from my post and completely ignoring all of the rest of the detailed statements of what happened immediately before she made those comments to the officer which show she was indeed under duress.

It's just as well the jury have access to and will assess all of the evidence before making such judgements.
Indeed the cross examination of the police officer in court yesterday is even more damning of the police officer's unprofessional behaviour, his failure to investigate or follow up their allegations against the taxi driver (who he didn't even interview himself or take a statement from). The officer sounds like a nasty piece of work with a person vendetta. Anyone else would have been understandably upset in their position even though Kerr made a mistake in how she handled it in her drunken state.

For further context, here is a more detailed report of part of the cross examination of PC Lovell :-

"Both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis alleged to PC Lovell that the taxi driver had held them "hostage" while driving erratically.
Those allegations were not formally investigated by police.
PC Lovell told the court he never spoke to the driver in person. Instead, he heard the driver's version of events through his colleague, PC Lim, who had spoken to him directly.
In the body-cam video, PC Lovell told both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis that what they told him didn't amount to a criminal offence.
These two women are civilians … it's not for them to tell you what offence might have occurred," Ms Forbes said.
"They might not have known the terminology, but they were making allegations of criminal offences.
"Yes," PC Lovell said.
"Serious criminal offences."
"Yes," he said.
"And you also know as a police officer that if a person broke a window to escape a dangerous situation that might amount to the defence of a criminal charge," she added.
"Yes," he said.
In the body-cam vision, PC Lovell was asked by another officer whether it was "just the women [that are] going to be arrested, or whether the driver would be to?"
"He's not getting nicked" PC Lovell replied
Both women also insist repeatedly that they called the police from the back of the taxi, but were hung up on.
"They [the police] wouldn't do that though, they wouldn't do that," PC Lovell tells both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis.
During the interaction, PC Lovell said he had checked and there was no record of their call to police.
Grace Forbes told the court on Tuesday that call-logs showed they had in fact contacted police and had been hung-up on.
She asked PC Lovell if he was aware of that then, or had subsequently been made aware of it. He said he wasn't aware and hadn't taken part in the subsequent investigation.
"The reality is, PC Lovell, that you made up your mind very early that you didn't believe what Ms Kerr was saying to you," Ms Forbes said.
He agreed, saying he had made "an informed decision" from the accounts he had heard.
No interviews or statements were taken from either Ms Kerr or Ms Mewis about their allegations against the driver.
PC Lovell said it wasn't best practise to formally interview people or take witness statements while they were inebriated.
The court heard the cab driver was never formally interviewed by police, or gave any on-record statement about the incident.
The last dealing police had with the driver was on January 30, 2023, when they helped facilitate the payment of 900 pounds ($1,796) from Ms Kerr to him for the damage to his cab, the trial heard.
Prosecutor William Emlyn Jones KC told the court police didn't request copies of the phone calls made by the driver or by Ms Kerr to police on the night of the incident.
He said officers didn't check mobile phone records of the driver to try and geolocate his movements, or request copies of number plate data collected by cameras in London to track the vehicle.
Police did ask the taxi driver if his taxi had an internal camera, to which he said it didn't, but officers never physically checked the car for one.
PC Lovell said he saw Ms Kerr for the first time that night as she climbed out the broken window of the cab near Twickenham police station.
When questioned if he recalled the cuts on her hands from the broken glass, he said he didn't.
It was also confirmed that despite the pair arriving at the police station at 2:20am, PC Lovell didn't turn his body camera on until 3:15am, two minutes before he arrested Ms Kerr on racially aggravated harassment charges.
He said he turned the camera on then "because of what was being said and their demeanour"

 

[Atomic Blonde]

Hasn’t the copper changed his statement since the original file was turned down by the CPS??

Yep, the original incident happened in January 2023, PC Lovell's first statement made no mention of how Ms Kerr calling him "stupid and white" made him feel.

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) received that statement and in July 2023, declined to charge Ms Kerr, stating the threshold of harassment, alarm or distress hadn't been met.

On December 5, 2023, PC Lovell submitted a second witness statement, detailing how he felt after being called "stupid and white", nearly 11 months after the alleged incident took place.

 

[McFlash]

Lol
You're just plucking one sentence from my post and completely ignoring all of the rest of the detailed statements of what happened immediately before she made those comments to the officer which show she was indeed under duress.

It's just as well the jury have access to and will assess all of the evidence before making such judgements.
Indeed the cross examination of the police officer in court yesterday is even more damning of the police officer's unprofessional behaviour, his failure to investigate or follow up their allegations against the taxi driver (who he didn't even interview himself or take a statement from). The officer sounds like a nasty piece of work with a person vendetta. Anyone else would have been understandably upset in their position even though Kerr made a mistake in how she handled it in her drunken state.

For further context, here is a more detailed report of part of the cross examination of PC Lovell :-

"Both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis alleged to PC Lovell that the taxi driver had held them "hostage" while driving erratically.
Those allegations were not formally investigated by police.
PC Lovell told the court he never spoke to the driver in person. Instead, he heard the driver's version of events through his colleague, PC Lim, who had spoken to him directly.
In the body-cam video, PC Lovell told both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis that what they told him didn't amount to a criminal offence.
These two women are civilians … it's not for them to tell you what offence might have occurred," Ms Forbes said.
"They might not have known the terminology, but they were making allegations of criminal offences.
"Yes," PC Lovell said.
"Serious criminal offences."
"Yes," he said.
"And you also know as a police officer that if a person broke a window to escape a dangerous situation that might amount to the defence of a criminal charge," she added.
"Yes," he said.
In the body-cam vision, PC Lovell was asked by another officer whether it was "just the women [that are] going to be arrested, or whether the driver would be to?"
"He's not getting nicked" PC Lovell replied
Both women also insist repeatedly that they called the police from the back of the taxi, but were hung up on.
"They [the police] wouldn't do that though, they wouldn't do that," PC Lovell tells both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis.
During the interaction, PC Lovell said he had checked and there was no record of their call to police.
Grace Forbes told the court on Tuesday that call-logs showed they had in fact contacted police and had been hung-up on.
She asked PC Lovell if he was aware of that then, or had subsequently been made aware of it. He said he wasn't aware and hadn't taken part in the subsequent investigation.
"The reality is, PC Lovell, that you made up your mind very early that you didn't believe what Ms Kerr was saying to you," Ms Forbes said.
He agreed, saying he had made "an informed decision" from the accounts he had heard.
No interviews or statements were taken from either Ms Kerr or Ms Mewis about their allegations against the driver.
PC Lovell said it wasn't best practise to formally interview people or take witness statements while they were inebriated.
The court heard the cab driver was never formally interviewed by police, or gave any on-record statement about the incident.
The last dealing police had with the driver was on January 30, 2023, when they helped facilitate the payment of 900 pounds ($1,796) from Ms Kerr to him for the damage to his cab, the trial heard.
Prosecutor William Emlyn Jones KC told the court police didn't request copies of the phone calls made by the driver or by Ms Kerr to police on the night of the incident.
He said officers didn't check mobile phone records of the driver to try and geolocate his movements, or request copies of number plate data collected by cameras in London to track the vehicle.
Police did ask the taxi driver if his taxi had an internal camera, to which he said it didn't, but officers never physically checked the car for one.
PC Lovell said he saw Ms Kerr for the first time that night as she climbed out the broken window of the cab near Twickenham police station.
When questioned if he recalled the cuts on her hands from the broken glass, he said he didn't.
It was also confirmed that despite the pair arriving at the police station at 2:20am, PC Lovell didn't turn his body camera on until 3:15am, two minutes before he arrested Ms Kerr on racially aggravated harassment charges.
He said he turned the camera on then "because of what was being said and their demeanour"

That sounds very much like an officer I had a run in with, shocking behaviour to be honest.

 

[Yid-ol]

Yep, the original incident happened in January 2023, PC Lovell's first statement made no mention of how Ms Kerr calling him "stupid and white" made him feel.

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) received that statement and in July 2023, declined to charge Ms Kerr, stating the threshold of harassment, alarm or distress hadn't been met.

On December 5, 2023, PC Lovell submitted a second witness statement, detailing how he felt after being called "stupid and white", nearly 11 months after the alleged incident took place.

I don't think a time frame should be put on when something can effect a person. Everyone is different and effects them in different ways.

It also might have effected someone at the start, but thought nothing of it but over time it gets to them more.

Not saying she gets done for it, but still a stupid thing to say.

 

[Trix]

She cant remember making racist comments, but can remember exactly what happened earlier in the taxi?

Not sure who is at fault, it could be that both parties are in the wrong.

I expect she was a total dick from the Taxi to the what happened at the station, because she was pissed clearly uncooperative throughout. The officer may also be in the wrong, and there should be a thorough investigation regardless if allegations have been made.

 

[Gb160]

Lol
You're just plucking one sentence from my post and completely ignoring all of the rest of the detailed statements of what happened immediately before she made those comments to the officer which show she was indeed under duress.

It's just as well the jury have access to and will assess all of the evidence before making such judgements.
Indeed the cross examination of the police officer in court yesterday is even more damning of the police officer's unprofessional behaviour, his failure to investigate or follow up their allegations against the taxi driver (who he didn't even interview himself or take a statement from). The officer sounds like a nasty piece of work with a person vendetta. Anyone else would have been understandably upset in their position even though Kerr made a mistake in how she handled it in her drunken state.

For further context, here is a more detailed report of part of the cross examination of PC Lovell :-

"Both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis alleged to PC Lovell that the taxi driver had held them "hostage" while driving erratically.
Those allegations were not formally investigated by police.
PC Lovell told the court he never spoke to the driver in person. Instead, he heard the driver's version of events through his colleague, PC Lim, who had spoken to him directly.
In the body-cam video, PC Lovell told both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis that what they told him didn't amount to a criminal offence.
These two women are civilians … it's not for them to tell you what offence might have occurred," Ms Forbes said.
"They might not have known the terminology, but they were making allegations of criminal offences.
"Yes," PC Lovell said.
"Serious criminal offences."
"Yes," he said.
"And you also know as a police officer that if a person broke a window to escape a dangerous situation that might amount to the defence of a criminal charge," she added.
"Yes," he said.
In the body-cam vision, PC Lovell was asked by another officer whether it was "just the women [that are] going to be arrested, or whether the driver would be to?"
"He's not getting nicked" PC Lovell replied
Both women also insist repeatedly that they called the police from the back of the taxi, but were hung up on.
"They [the police] wouldn't do that though, they wouldn't do that," PC Lovell tells both Ms Kerr and Ms Mewis.
During the interaction, PC Lovell said he had checked and there was no record of their call to police.
Grace Forbes told the court on Tuesday that call-logs showed they had in fact contacted police and had been hung-up on.
She asked PC Lovell if he was aware of that then, or had subsequently been made aware of it. He said he wasn't aware and hadn't taken part in the subsequent investigation.
"The reality is, PC Lovell, that you made up your mind very early that you didn't believe what Ms Kerr was saying to you," Ms Forbes said.
He agreed, saying he had made "an informed decision" from the accounts he had heard.
No interviews or statements were taken from either Ms Kerr or Ms Mewis about their allegations against the driver.
PC Lovell said it wasn't best practise to formally interview people or take witness statements while they were inebriated.
The court heard the cab driver was never formally interviewed by police, or gave any on-record statement about the incident.
The last dealing police had with the driver was on January 30, 2023, when they helped facilitate the payment of 900 pounds ($1,796) from Ms Kerr to him for the damage to his cab, the trial heard.
Prosecutor William Emlyn Jones KC told the court police didn't request copies of the phone calls made by the driver or by Ms Kerr to police on the night of the incident.
He said officers didn't check mobile phone records of the driver to try and geolocate his movements, or request copies of number plate data collected by cameras in London to track the vehicle.
Police did ask the taxi driver if his taxi had an internal camera, to which he said it didn't, but officers never physically checked the car for one.
PC Lovell said he saw Ms Kerr for the first time that night as she climbed out the broken window of the cab near Twickenham police station.
When questioned if he recalled the cuts on her hands from the broken glass, he said he didn't.
It was also confirmed that despite the pair arriving at the police station at 2:20am, PC Lovell didn't turn his body camera on until 3:15am, two minutes before he arrested Ms Kerr on racially aggravated harassment charges.
He said he turned the camera on then "because of what was being said and their demeanour"

The conduct of the old bill was shitty, no doubt, but nope...I still don't see how her being a dumb racist at the police station is in any way understandable.

 

[Veuve Clicquot]

I don't think a time frame should be put on when something can effect a person. Everyone is different and effects them in different ways.

It also might have effected someone at the start, but thought nothing of it but over time it gets to them more.

Not saying she gets done for it, but still a stupid thing to say.

I would normally agree with this is, but having read all of the evidence presented in court, he just sounds like a misogynistic creep on a power trip.

Unfortunately there is plenty of it about in the police force :-

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/04/what-is-institutional-misogyny-in-policing-and-why-does-it-matter/

 

[CowInAComa]

is the case about what happened in the taxi or whether she is racist?

not sure how one begets other but seems like the second seems fairly conclusive.

 

[Danny1]

The conduct of the old bill was shitty, no doubt, but nope...I still don't see how her being a dumb racist at the police station is in any way understandable.

Agreed, say a white Premier League player called a black policeman the "N" word I wonder if we would have people defending them the same way and saying that they were stressed so it's understandable.

Like you have said multiple times, nothing condones the comment.

 

[Trix]

Hasn’t the copper changed his statement since the original file was turned down by the CPS??

Appears so.

Kerr has said she voluntarily went in and made a statement sober the following day but couldn't remember saying anything racist or insulting and it's only through the bodycam footage that she knows it happened. Surely her whole statement wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on based on the fact she can only remember the stuff that shows her in a positive light?

 

[Yid-ol]

I would normally agree with this is, but having read all of the evidence presented in court, he just sounds like a misogynistic creep on a power trip.

Unfortunately there is plenty of it about in the police force :-

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/09/04/what-is-institutional-misogyny-in-policing-and-why-does-it-matter/

Yeah, mine was more a general point.

I don't know enough of what's happened in this situation to be able to say one way or the other who is right.

 

[McFlash]

is the case about what happened in the taxi or whether she is racist?

not sure how one begets other but seems like the second seems fairly conclusive.

It seems quite clear that she made racist remarks and she should be punished for that, without doubt.

But I think it should also be investigated and highlighted how unprofessional the officer in question was regarding the whole situation.
It seemed that he'd made his mind up, not carried out his job properly and since decided to use the racist thing as a smokescreen for him being a bad copper.
Sounds like he's lied a bit too, about them trying to phone the police from the taxi for one thing.

The ladies made a serious allegation and he just didn't bother to listen at all, that is not the behaviour we should expect from our police force and the officer in question deserves to be dragged over the coals for it.

Yes, she was out of order and very stupid, that's a given but there's more to this situation than that, in my opinion.

 

[Albertbarich]

It seems quite clear that she made racist remarks and she should be punished for that, without doubt.

But I think it should also be investigated and highlighted how unprofessional the officer in question was regarding the whole situation.
It seemed that he'd made his mind up, not carried out his job properly and since decided to use the racist thing as a smokescreen for him being a bad copper.
Sounds like he's lied a bit too, about them trying to phone the police from the taxi for one thing.

The ladies made a serious allegation and he just didn't bother to listen at all, that is not the behaviour we should expect from our police force and the officer in question deserves to be dragged over the coals for it.

Yes, she was out of order and very stupid, that's a given but there's more to this situation than that, in my opinion.

Just a point about his behaviour.

He could have done all that investigating and should have but in the real world he is working late or night shifts with a massive workload and dealing with drunks and druggies. If you were doing that job and a couple of drunk women who had thrown a brick through a window starting making wild accusations whilst being abusive would you take them seriously? I’m not sure most would.

I bet coppers hear all sorts of wacky stories from drunks behaving badly all the time and it seems to me if she wasn’t sort of famous, ok she’s not famous but she has the might of a football club helping her this would have just gone down as two people who had drunk too much and were trying to get out of it.

she doesn’t help herself by going to apologise the next day and then trying to make out she forgot her bad behaviour but remembered the taxi drivers.

 

[McFlash]

Agreed, say a white Premier League player called a black policeman the "N" word I wonder if we would have people defending them the same way and saying that they were stressed so it's understandable.

Like you have said multiple times, nothing condones the comment.

I don't think anybody has defended or excused her for what she said, have they?

I think it's just the wider story being talked about here and that's a policeman not carrying out his duty to an acceptable level.

It seems to me that it's not about one being right and one being wrong, they are both clearly in the wrong but one was stupidity and drunkenness, the other was a dereliction of duty.

Considering their personal positions, which is the worst offence? I guess that comes down to opinion really.

 

[McFlash]

Just a point about his behaviour.

He could have done all that investigating and should have but in the real world he is working late or night shifts with a massive workload and dealing with drunks and druggies. If you were doing that job and a couple of drunk women who had thrown a brick through a window starting making wild accusations whilst being abusive would you take them seriously? I’m not sure most would.

I bet coppers hear all sorts of wacky stories from drunks behaving badly all the time and it seems to me if she wasn’t sort of famous, ok she’s not famous but she has the might of a football club helping her this would have just gone down as two people who had drunk too much and were trying to get out of it.

she doesn’t help herself by going to apologise the next day and then trying to make out she forgot her bad behaviour but remembered the taxi drivers.

Wait, so the police can just ignore serious allegations because they are a bit busy?
They get to pick and choose what they take action about?
Should they have that power?
Should a lowly Constable have that power on his own?

I understand that the police are understaffed and overworked, my brother in law served for 30 years, but that's never an excuse to not do their job to the highest possible level.

And mate, they didn't just throw a brick through a window.

 

[Albertbarich]

Wait, so the police can just ignore serious allegations because they are a bit busy?
They get to pick and choose what they take action about?
Should they have that power?
Should a lowly Constable have that power on his own?

I understand that the police are understaffed and overworked, my brother in law served for 30 years, but that's never an excuse to not do their job to the highest possible level.

And mate, they didn't just throw a brick through a window.

I agree they should, I’m just not sure in reality how often it happens when one side is pissed as a fart.

 

[McFlash]

I agree they should, I’m just not sure in reality how often it happens when one side is pissed as a fart.

Being drunk or not shouldn't come into it, should they ignore rape claims because the lady was pissed?

And I know that it's not just in late night, drunken situations that the police can fail to complete their duty to the expected level, I've been on the end of it over the course of a few days and while stone cold sober.
Thankfully, I had time to calm down and had someone knowledgeable to get advice from, so my mouth didn't get me into trouble.

But in my case, they failed to follow any procedure from the moment they spoke to my "accuser", the PC in my case made his mind up and neglected to check any evidence or carry out any of the required procedures.
He just attempted to bully and threaten me with arrest and stating that I had to present myself to be interviewed under caution.
Suffice to say and because I managed to stay calm, I explained to him everything that he had failed to do and what he should have done.

Even though he refused my offer of presenting him with concrete evidence of my innocence for a while, I sent it to him anyway with a very strongly worded note.
He then phoned and apologised.

Now imagine all that was happening in one evening and when I was drunk, off guard and without being able to get advice on the police and their policies etc?
That would have been a very different situation and probably ended very differently.

There's no excuse for a police officer to not follow procedure.

 

[CowInAComa]

Being drunk or not shouldn't come into it, should they ignore rape claims because the lady was pissed?

And I know that it's not just in late night, drunken situations that the police can fail to complete their duty to the expected level, I've been on the end of it over the course of a few days and while stone cold sober.
Thankfully, I had time to calm down and had someone knowledgeable to get advice from, so my mouth didn't get me into trouble.

But in my case, they failed to follow any procedure from the moment they spoke to my "accuser", the PC in my case made his mind up and neglected to check any evidence or carry out any of the required procedures.
He just attempted to bully and threaten me with arrest and stating that I had to present myself to be interviewed under caution.
Suffice to say and because I managed to stay calm, I explained to him everything that he had failed to do and what he should have done.

Even though he refused my offer of presenting him with concrete evidence of my innocence for a while, I sent it to him anyway with a very strongly worded note.
He then phoned and apologised.

Now imagine all that was happening in one evening and when I was drunk, off guard and without being able to get advice on the police and their policies etc?
That would have been a very different situation and probably ended very differently.

There's no excuse for a police officer to not follow procedure.

Why did you not racially abuse him?