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Match Ratings Ratings vs Everton

Your Man of the Match

  • Lloris

    Votes: 12 7.1%
  • Aurier

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Dier

    Votes: 61 35.9%
  • Toby

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • Davies

    Votes: 4 2.4%
  • Winks

    Votes: 9 5.3%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Lo Celso

    Votes: 50 29.4%
  • Son

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lucas

    Votes: 2 1.2%
  • Kane

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Bergwijn

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Verts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 6 3.5%
  • None deserved

    Votes: 13 7.6%

  • Total voters
    170

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Disastrous stream probs so can't comment on the general game , but I agree with Jose re it being a good thing that Hugo was raging about
a player not doing his job . This is exactly what we need .

All our players seeking to do less than their job in defence and let's face it , that is a lot more than just Sonny , need bawling out publicly . Dier should be the same, like an outfield Hugo . A bit too much politeness in the team as Jose was saying . Good stuff Hugo (y)
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Very impassioned, nice post. You and I want the same thing - I'm not expecting us to play free-flowing amazing football, though with Lo Celso, Ndombele, Lamela, Kane, Son, Bergwijn in the ranks it could be argued we should be able to. I do, however, expect us to play better football than Burnley or Sheffield United and we don't currently.

We can win as many trophies as possible under him, but what's the point if it's difficult to watch us? The match yesterday was so boring I was dreaming about doing the washing up. We, as fans, don't get a trophy if the players win one - I just don't find it gratifying as a supporter of the club to not be able to watch the games, whether we win or not. That's not all on Jose, but I'm not confident in his ability to change anything.
Thanks mate and yea completely get your perspective 100%, I've also said many many times that the football shouldn't always be horrific but I don't think it will be once he sorts out the defensive organisation and hopefully gets some better attacking players.

His most recently successful and half decent to watch team was Chelsea and his line-up was something like:

Courtious

Ivanovic
Terry
Cahill
Azpi

Matric
Fabreagas

Willian
Oscar
Hazard

Costa

They were solid but also scored a lot of good goals but the differences between that team and the one we have are:
-Much better defenders as individuals (we'd need to upgrade the full-backs for sure)
-They had a proper DM in Matic, neither Winks or Sissoko fit that profile hence Hoyjberg interest
-Fabregas (Winks could do a similar role or GLC but i'd rather see GLC play as n.o 10 like yesterday in which case we need Ndombele to step up and play this role or sell him and buy a true creative deep lying CM)
-Upgrade our attacking midfielders or at least get more depth, Willian is/was more effective than Lucas going forwards although Lucas does do well defensively, Bergweign is a good talent but not quite there yet. GLC can be our Oscar for sure and Son can come close to Hazard and Kane can do what Costa does.

So to me we are not a million miles away from this and this team was reasonably ok to watch whilst also successful in winning the league.

I'm with you mate 100% I don't want us to play such dire football that I'd rather watch the missus paint her nails but it would also be nice to see us win a half decent trophy and so this is where results are key, if Jose wants to play this pragmatic way especially until the team are more solid and confident defensively before working more on attacking phases of play then no problem but we will need to see positive results which we have done since the re-start. If results are poor then I'm with you I will not be supporting us playing awful boring football and getting mediocre results but the way I see it is that there has to be a little bit of give and take.

Lets give Jose a bit more time to sort the balance of the side out and hopefully get some new players in and I think the results and enjoyment of the performances will pick up but unfortuantely he's a defensive pragmatic coach so he needs top class consistent attacking creative players the likes of Willian and Hazard and Son and Kane to consistently perform each game because his attacking tactics will not be at the level of Pep or Klopp as his philosophy is completely oppositite.

All the best mate and good debate, i'm with you, try to stay confident as I think things can pick up performance wise to a level you'll be ok with and if that means we then life the FA Cup next year surely when/if that day comes you'd mabye have a slightly different perspective :)

But longer term I don't want Jose and this style of football either so I hope the next man is either Poch's return or Nagglesman or a younger more positive coach more in the style of play we want to see (once Jose has got us a tin pot or two hopefully)
COYS.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Thanks mate and yea completely get your perspective 100%, I've also said many many times that the football shouldn't always be horrific but I don't think it will be once he sorts out the defensive organisation and hopefully gets some better attacking players.

His most recently successful and half decent to watch team was Chelsea and his line-up was something like:

Courtious

Ivanovic
Terry
Cahill
Azpi

Matric
Fabreagas

Willian
Oscar
Hazard

Costa

They were solid but also scored a lot of good goals but the differences between that team and the one we have are:
-Much better defenders as individuals (we'd need to upgrade the full-backs for sure)
-They had a proper DM in Matic, neither Winks or Sissoko fit that profile hence Hoyjberg interest
-Fabregas (Winks could do a similar role or GLC but i'd rather see GLC play as n.o 10 like yesterday in which case we need Ndombele to step up and play this role or sell him and buy a true creative deep lying CM)
-Upgrade our attacking midfielders or at least get more depth, Willian is/was more effective than Lucas going forwards although Lucas does do well defensively, Bergweign is a good talent but not quite there yet. GLC can be our Oscar for sure and Son can come close to Hazard and Kane can do what Costa does.

So to me we are not a million miles away from this and this team was reasonably ok to watch whilst also successful in winning the league.

I'm with you mate 100% I don't want us to play such dire football that I'd rather watch the missus paint her nails but it would also be nice to see us win a half decent trophy and so this is where results are key, if Jose wants to play this pragmatic way especially until the team are more solid and confident defensively before working more on attacking phases of play then no problem but we will need to see positive results which we have done since the re-start. If results are poor then I'm with you I will not be supporting us playing awful boring football and getting mediocre results but the way I see it is that there has to be a little bit of give and take.

Lets give Jose a bit more time to sort the balance of the side out and hopefully get some new players in and I think the results and enjoyment of the performances will pick up but unfortuantely he's a defensive pragmatic coach so he needs top class consistent attacking creative players the likes of Willian and Hazard and Son and Kane to consistently perform each game because his attacking tactics will not be at the level of Pep or Klopp as his philosophy is completely oppositite.

All the best mate and good debate, i'm with you, try to stay confident as I think things can pick up performance wise to a level you'll be ok with and if that means we then life the FA Cup next year surely when/if that day comes you'd mabye have a slightly different perspective :)

But longer term I don't want Jose and this style of football either so I hope the next man is either Poch's return or Nagglesman or a younger more positive coach more in the style of play we want to see (once Jose has got us a tin pot or two hopefully)
COYS.
This is the kind of football that when Jose has the right balance of players his teams can play: 6 past the gooners :)

Chelsea 6-0 Arsenal


The differences are as I said above in terms of the quality of players we have, mainly if you see these highlights most goals are scored in transition with Matic and D.Luiz winning the ball driving forwards and the front 3 causing havoc. Now I'm sorry but firsty our defence has not been solid enough as a platform to enable this and I see why Jose has tried to sort that out first and secondly our attacking players currently also aren't good enough, moving GLC to n.o10 is a positive sign and as he grows in confidence he'll become a consistent goalscoring and creative threat but when have you ever seen Lucas get the ball where Schurlle did and drive at the defence and hit it bottom corner? He just runs into players and is fouled or falls over, Bergweign did exactly what Schurlle did vs Man.U but hit the shot at De gea but still he was direct and scored and he has real potential but these are the nuances of difference that given time and some better players we COULD slowly see us becoming very effective at this mid-block and fast transition style, sure its not tiki taka and lots of posession but if we played like Chelsea did in this game beating arsenal 6-0 (could've been 10-0) then I don't think our fans will be bored or wanting to watch the missus do the washing up instead.

So for me its not blind optimism with Jose its just that lets see what happens if we can give him some more time and some players to fit more the style he wants to play and we could then all be a lot happier with what we are being served up.

But part of this is down to Levy and can he get Jose some half decent suitable players in the door.
If we could line-up next season or eventually something like the below then we could be a hell of a team:

Lloris

Aarons
Toby/new top CB
Dier
Chilwell (Obviously we won't sign him but someone similar)

Hojberg
Winks

Coutiniho/Willian or someone of similar quality (an upgrade on Lucas)
GLC
Son

Kane (Back-up to Kane so he's more fresh during games)

COYS
 

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