Steffen
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 1,077
- 4,508
That first-half tackle with the body faint after. Wow.
Match Ratings Ratings vs Aston Villa
- Thread starter Bulletspur
- Start date
That first-half tackle with the body faint after. Wow.
Lighty64
I believe
- Aug 24, 2010
- 10,400
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Winks was playing long passes out to KWP most of the 1st half, him and Toby
Lighty64
I believe
- Aug 24, 2010
- 10,400
- 12,476
at the time McGin was Roses man. McGin started his run from Roses side and drifted to the right CB position
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
- 21,889
- 32,561
A real struggle but we got there in the end.
First day of the season there is always going to be some rust, and playing against a team with such a low block defence with everyone in behind the ball is never easy to break down, but having said that many things just did not work for us today.
Didn't get a lot of the tactical stuff.
We started with the dreadful diamond, didn't do a lot with it, but talking about it is irrelevant because quite quickly we'd changed shape. Sissoko from early on was playing as a right winger (and, the way Villa were set up, effectively as a right forward) for most of the game and the net result was just a reminder of all of his bad points. No picture of what to do with the ball at his feet, little finesse and technique, almost zero composure in the heat of the moment. It did not work. KWP therefore played a lot of the game as basically an inverted fullback when we had the ball tucked in behind him.
Space was at a premium through the centre of the park, but the two striker set up again didn't seem to work either or be harmonious. After a couple of early sights at goal Moura in the No.9 role was absolutely, totally, infinitely anonymous. And Kane in the No.10 pocket was a little subdued and in areas with little impact or threat to the opposition.
The second half we largely played a 4-2-4 effectively, with Lamela out on the left wing. We looked most comfortable when Eriksen came on, went to more a 4-2-3-1 and Moura on the right whilst Kane played as the No.9, and during this period made our comeback and won the match. Poch surely has to take note, we suffer both with and without the ball with the current tactics, but I'm not convinced he will.......
The goal conceded was as poor as you get, opening day or not. One big boot forward and we're in all sorts of trouble. A quick glance has people saying Sanchez isn't at fault, he really is. KWP has gone out and pressed his man - ok. Toby has covered the channel behind him - ok. Sanchez should then be the covering defender for a long straight ball, instead he's square on with Toby and too tight to his man. He still has time to rectify this, if he reads the flight of the ball and is dropping immediately, but he a) doesn't read it and b) is still preoccupied with wrestling his man. End result is he isn't where he should be and has been taken out of the game. Rose has to share some of the blame too - he's dawdling coming round from the left, and if you look at his stride pattern he doesn't read the flight of the ball either and his man beats him on the inside. From there he shows composure to sit him down and stick it away, fair enough nice composed finish, but the lead up to it shouldn't happen.
It's then hard to break down a team who have put up the brick wall and have that extra determination with something to hold on to. We certainly plugged away but the end product largely wasn't there. Numerous times we worked an overlap in a really good area, only for the ball in to be nowhere near any intended target, or we tried to overplay and force passes where there was never a gap instead of getting a shot away etc.
We left it late to turn the game around, though Villa cant say they were unlucky. If you choose to play that way, soaking up so much pressure, you have to rely on a) none of your players making a mistake, b) none of the opposition producing a piece of magic, and c) there being no pieces of fortune such as a kind bounce of the ball to the attacker. The chances of all three happening are slim, and it's almost inevitable, eventually, the breakthrough will come. And for the amount of the game we had, it was a just turnaround.
Lloris - Virtually nothing to do.
KWP - Very solid game.
Alderweireld - Ok.
Sanchez - Got better and started to step in and cut out passes into the front, but a shaky start and has to do better for the goal.
Rose - Usual tenacity and drive on the left flank, but some proper dozy defending at times especially in the first half.
Winks - Don't think he looks 100% yet, touch and movement not completely sure. However I thought he was competent enough and made one crucial tackle when we were getting countered. And......his job is to recycle possession and give it to those in the final third to do the damage.
Sissoko - Mostly a terrible game marked by frequently barbecuing openings, the nadir being the close range chance that went for a throw in. Worked hard though and broke forward competently through the middle for the 3rd goal.
Ndombele - Ok in patches, often a bit too unselfish and trying to find almost impossible passes rather than have a dig at goal. Also clearly needs to get fitter. Kept chugging away though and got us back in the game with a nice equaliser.
Lamela - Didn't really get going. Little room to operate centrally and then stuck out on the left wing for much of the second half. Did demonstrate the value of tenacity and work rate though, I can think of many of our attackers who wouldn't have chased back at Grealish and got it back...... And from that anything can happen, as long as you put the effort in.
Moura - Promising opening with a shot and then a header saved. After that may as well have not been on the pitch, completely anonymous playing as a centre forward. Slightly more comfortable out on the right flank, but still wasn't that impactful.
Kane - Could work harder, could run a bit more, definitely must end this role of having him sat in the No.10 pocket for most of the game, but on the plus side eventually went into the centre forward role and won the game with two sharp finishes which bodes well for the season.
Subs:
Eriksen - A timely reminder of what he brings, and what we desperately need. Very good cameo.
Nkoudou - n/a.
Skipp - n/a.
First day of the season there is always going to be some rust, and playing against a team with such a low block defence with everyone in behind the ball is never easy to break down, but having said that many things just did not work for us today.
Didn't get a lot of the tactical stuff.
We started with the dreadful diamond, didn't do a lot with it, but talking about it is irrelevant because quite quickly we'd changed shape. Sissoko from early on was playing as a right winger (and, the way Villa were set up, effectively as a right forward) for most of the game and the net result was just a reminder of all of his bad points. No picture of what to do with the ball at his feet, little finesse and technique, almost zero composure in the heat of the moment. It did not work. KWP therefore played a lot of the game as basically an inverted fullback when we had the ball tucked in behind him.
Space was at a premium through the centre of the park, but the two striker set up again didn't seem to work either or be harmonious. After a couple of early sights at goal Moura in the No.9 role was absolutely, totally, infinitely anonymous. And Kane in the No.10 pocket was a little subdued and in areas with little impact or threat to the opposition.
The second half we largely played a 4-2-4 effectively, with Lamela out on the left wing. We looked most comfortable when Eriksen came on, went to more a 4-2-3-1 and Moura on the right whilst Kane played as the No.9, and during this period made our comeback and won the match. Poch surely has to take note, we suffer both with and without the ball with the current tactics, but I'm not convinced he will.......
The goal conceded was as poor as you get, opening day or not. One big boot forward and we're in all sorts of trouble. A quick glance has people saying Sanchez isn't at fault, he really is. KWP has gone out and pressed his man - ok. Toby has covered the channel behind him - ok. Sanchez should then be the covering defender for a long straight ball, instead he's square on with Toby and too tight to his man. He still has time to rectify this, if he reads the flight of the ball and is dropping immediately, but he a) doesn't read it and b) is still preoccupied with wrestling his man. End result is he isn't where he should be and has been taken out of the game. Rose has to share some of the blame too - he's dawdling coming round from the left, and if you look at his stride pattern he doesn't read the flight of the ball either and his man beats him on the inside. From there he shows composure to sit him down and stick it away, fair enough nice composed finish, but the lead up to it shouldn't happen.
It's then hard to break down a team who have put up the brick wall and have that extra determination with something to hold on to. We certainly plugged away but the end product largely wasn't there. Numerous times we worked an overlap in a really good area, only for the ball in to be nowhere near any intended target, or we tried to overplay and force passes where there was never a gap instead of getting a shot away etc.
We left it late to turn the game around, though Villa cant say they were unlucky. If you choose to play that way, soaking up so much pressure, you have to rely on a) none of your players making a mistake, b) none of the opposition producing a piece of magic, and c) there being no pieces of fortune such as a kind bounce of the ball to the attacker. The chances of all three happening are slim, and it's almost inevitable, eventually, the breakthrough will come. And for the amount of the game we had, it was a just turnaround.
Lloris - Virtually nothing to do.
KWP - Very solid game.
Alderweireld - Ok.
Sanchez - Got better and started to step in and cut out passes into the front, but a shaky start and has to do better for the goal.
Rose - Usual tenacity and drive on the left flank, but some proper dozy defending at times especially in the first half.
Winks - Don't think he looks 100% yet, touch and movement not completely sure. However I thought he was competent enough and made one crucial tackle when we were getting countered. And......his job is to recycle possession and give it to those in the final third to do the damage.
Sissoko - Mostly a terrible game marked by frequently barbecuing openings, the nadir being the close range chance that went for a throw in. Worked hard though and broke forward competently through the middle for the 3rd goal.
Ndombele - Ok in patches, often a bit too unselfish and trying to find almost impossible passes rather than have a dig at goal. Also clearly needs to get fitter. Kept chugging away though and got us back in the game with a nice equaliser.
Lamela - Didn't really get going. Little room to operate centrally and then stuck out on the left wing for much of the second half. Did demonstrate the value of tenacity and work rate though, I can think of many of our attackers who wouldn't have chased back at Grealish and got it back...... And from that anything can happen, as long as you put the effort in.
Moura - Promising opening with a shot and then a header saved. After that may as well have not been on the pitch, completely anonymous playing as a centre forward. Slightly more comfortable out on the right flank, but still wasn't that impactful.
Kane - Could work harder, could run a bit more, definitely must end this role of having him sat in the No.10 pocket for most of the game, but on the plus side eventually went into the centre forward role and won the game with two sharp finishes which bodes well for the season.
Subs:
Eriksen - A timely reminder of what he brings, and what we desperately need. Very good cameo.
Nkoudou - n/a.
Skipp - n/a.
DenverSpur
Well-Known Member
- Sep 25, 2011
- 1,992
- 5,605
If anyone is for fault for the Villa goal it’s Winks. He supposed to be at the base of the diamond covering the CBs when the opposition have the ball instead he’s far up field on the right! In fact when the ball is played forward Rose is our only player on the left hand side of the field which would seem to suggest that the whole team’s shape is wrong.
KWP was our most consistent player over the 90. My MOM.
Not a Sissoko hater but thought he was poor today. The lack of confidence he has in his own technical ability means he becomes far too indecisive when he finds himself in a promising situation.
When is Poch going to admit that the Diamond just doesn’t work. It leaves us exposed out wide and allows them to defend narrow. N’Dembele is wanted on the flanks if the diamond. He needs to be in the Centre to be effective. we need to play 4231 or 433 to get the best out of him.
Play like we did today, especially in the 1st half, next week and City will have a field day given how dangerous their wide men are.
KWP was our most consistent player over the 90. My MOM.
Not a Sissoko hater but thought he was poor today. The lack of confidence he has in his own technical ability means he becomes far too indecisive when he finds himself in a promising situation.
When is Poch going to admit that the Diamond just doesn’t work. It leaves us exposed out wide and allows them to defend narrow. N’Dembele is wanted on the flanks if the diamond. He needs to be in the Centre to be effective. we need to play 4231 or 433 to get the best out of him.
Play like we did today, especially in the 1st half, next week and City will have a field day given how dangerous their wide men are.
Lighty64
I believe
- Aug 24, 2010
- 10,400
- 12,476
confused because we was losing 1-0 when Winks went off
think he was taken off as a precaution, as after his tackle that might of seen us go 2-0 he wasn't as mobile for a little while.
@Bobby__Lucky
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
- 2,933
- 3,982
I voted for Kwp. The reality is though I would say Kwp was mom until Eriksen came on. Eriksen coming on did change the game.
I want to speak about Kyle though. I think this was the first time I've seen him look to take responsibility, actually look confident and look and play like he belonged out there. There was a time he was shrugging of a guy twice his size. And he held him off. There was another instance where he used his strength against a bigger player and came away with the ball.
I knkw he won 3 mom early in his appearances, but they were more neat and tidy appearances. Even when he got 3 assists in one game there was a timidness to his game. Today he showed glimpses of what he can do. Kyle is a baller. No mistaking that today. The only Down side to his game today is that when Eriksen came on he became less responble and I know this was partly tactical as poch reverted to an old fashioned 442 or almost with lamela left wing and lucas right. There was one point where he could and probably should of ran to overlap lucas and stretch the defence but showed more caution in his play. I'm so pleased for him maybe something has sunk in. But he was really really good today. His best performance for me by a long way. That little bit of quick feet and skill by the sideline when surrounded by 2 villa players was lovely and he drew the foul. He has such nice feet, controlled long diagonals first time and adapted to the faster pave tactically very well. His crossing is also very good. Baller.
Anyway the rest.. I agree with some in the first half Danny was second in the mom for firsg half.
The goal was concerning, was all to easy though mginnn took it very very well.
Thaought ndombele looked very laboured for much of the game ut his goal brought him to life.
Sissoko was much better when Eriksen came on and could support, and provided a nice assist.
Lamela was a bit peripheral but he don't mug grealish we probably don't win the game.
Felt the players were a ut confused. The midfield rotated the forwards rotated but there was no movement. Such an odd thing.
Kane looked laboured but 2 good goals.
Winksy was a little below par and mtbe this was down to the rotational nature of the mkdfield
Was awesome to see 4 grads on the pitch. KWP, Winksy, kane and Rose. Rose joining at 16 I always think of him as academy and is to all purpose.
Very happy we got out act together. But miffed it took Eriksen to do it.
I want to speak about Kyle though. I think this was the first time I've seen him look to take responsibility, actually look confident and look and play like he belonged out there. There was a time he was shrugging of a guy twice his size. And he held him off. There was another instance where he used his strength against a bigger player and came away with the ball.
I knkw he won 3 mom early in his appearances, but they were more neat and tidy appearances. Even when he got 3 assists in one game there was a timidness to his game. Today he showed glimpses of what he can do. Kyle is a baller. No mistaking that today. The only Down side to his game today is that when Eriksen came on he became less responble and I know this was partly tactical as poch reverted to an old fashioned 442 or almost with lamela left wing and lucas right. There was one point where he could and probably should of ran to overlap lucas and stretch the defence but showed more caution in his play. I'm so pleased for him maybe something has sunk in. But he was really really good today. His best performance for me by a long way. That little bit of quick feet and skill by the sideline when surrounded by 2 villa players was lovely and he drew the foul. He has such nice feet, controlled long diagonals first time and adapted to the faster pave tactically very well. His crossing is also very good. Baller.
Anyway the rest.. I agree with some in the first half Danny was second in the mom for firsg half.
The goal was concerning, was all to easy though mginnn took it very very well.
Thaought ndombele looked very laboured for much of the game ut his goal brought him to life.
Sissoko was much better when Eriksen came on and could support, and provided a nice assist.
Lamela was a bit peripheral but he don't mug grealish we probably don't win the game.
Felt the players were a ut confused. The midfield rotated the forwards rotated but there was no movement. Such an odd thing.
Kane looked laboured but 2 good goals.
Winksy was a little below par and mtbe this was down to the rotational nature of the mkdfield
Was awesome to see 4 grads on the pitch. KWP, Winksy, kane and Rose. Rose joining at 16 I always think of him as academy and is to all purpose.
Very happy we got out act together. But miffed it took Eriksen to do it.
Fan-at-ic!
Well-Known Member
- Jul 20, 2005
- 582
- 329
I thought first half was pretty meh... But second half much better and then Eriksen came on and he was just what we needed.
Gave my MOTM to KWP because I thought he was consistently our best player, but could easily of been Eriksen.
Gave my MOTM to KWP because I thought he was consistently our best player, but could easily of been Eriksen.
Stavrogin
Well-Known Member
- Apr 17, 2004
- 2,363
- 1,477
In real terms we were very good for the full 90 minutes. It was an excellent start. I'm sure the match thread was full of wailing and weeping but looked at objectively we should be very optimistic.
I don't even know that we can call it a horrible formation. If we'd have scored one of those good chances, it would have gone very differently. That said, The synergy was definitely lacking and the creative intelligence was sorely lacking. Having Sissoko popping up at the end of moves is really not optimal and you can certainly say that Lamela and Moura are best suited against better teams where they can press and exploit space respectively.
I think there was an element of an experimental selection with some meta-considerations: Lamela was good pre-season, Moura starts after the CL final 'snub', Ndombele gets eased in etc. And this was all done because we could get away with it (no disrespect to Villa who almost proved that wrong).
The worry is that more often than not, we will play team who park the bus (or get chased back onto it and cower there like mewling sea-cows); we seem light on players who thrive in such circumstances.
Palmer Stoat
Well-Known Member
- Aug 27, 2013
- 103
- 409
The goal was a collective failing, I thought. From memory (so I stand to be corrected), if I were going to zero in *one* player, it would be Sissoko, who I thought should have tracked the run of the Villa player. Personally didn't think Sanchez did too much wrong. Maybe Rose could have squeezed up a little more a little quicker when Toby went walkabout. In fact, Toby getting out of position might have been the biggest mistake. But yeah, a bit of blame to go around between at least three players. Not to mention that Villa were clean and decisive and took their chance well.
Lighty64
I believe
- Aug 24, 2010
- 10,400
- 12,476
hold on a minute Sanchez was at fault for getting to tight on the player he was marking? well how many players do you expect him to mark at once, and also pre judge the pass that Mings made.
we had 4 defenders out there, where was Toby, and KWP when the ball was played over the top. if Sanchez hadn't been tight whose to say that player wouldn't of spun him and been the player clear.
we got done on the counter, and the only 2 players that could of stopped McGin was either Rose or Lloris making a save. Rose slipped and Lloris just didn't get enough on it.
also people seem to be forgetting Sanchez block that might of seen us go 2-0 down
stevespurs
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2005
- 991
- 1,423
I agree with almost everything you say. But Poch's post match presser aludes to him not liking his formation first half, and he blamed himself for his players not understanding it.
I think Poch will be better this season tactically, partially because he showed plenty of glimses last season of evolving, and partially because he has a superb array of choices this year in midfield. He is stubborn, but I sense he will improve.
As for the teams ratings.
First half at 6's and 7's (literally)
Second half more 7's and 8's.
Enjoyed, KWP, Winks, Ndombele's goal, Harry's brace
Didn't like Sissoko's action in the box.
- Oct 17, 2006
- 10,701
- 25,259
- Thread starter
- #76
Just re watched the 90+ minutes of the game.
A combination of Eriksen coming on and us reverting immediately to 4231 was what changed the game, both were crucial factors. No coincident then that normal service to Kane was resumed, where his game immediately was raised.
Anyone saying that Lamela was poor are talking out of their collective asses. He has had better games for us and also much worse. He played ugly but playing like that contributed to us eventually winning. Winning the various duals between their captain, talisman and playmaker Grealish are cases in point
As I suspected we do not have a RB problem as some on here would have us believe. Again KWP stood up and was counted. Never seen him have a poor game for us. I can see now Poch has been carefully grooming him over the last few seasons and not just thrown him in the deep end. I have to trust Poch with this
A combination of Eriksen coming on and us reverting immediately to 4231 was what changed the game, both were crucial factors. No coincident then that normal service to Kane was resumed, where his game immediately was raised.
Anyone saying that Lamela was poor are talking out of their collective asses. He has had better games for us and also much worse. He played ugly but playing like that contributed to us eventually winning. Winning the various duals between their captain, talisman and playmaker Grealish are cases in point
As I suspected we do not have a RB problem as some on here would have us believe. Again KWP stood up and was counted. Never seen him have a poor game for us. I can see now Poch has been carefully grooming him over the last few seasons and not just thrown him in the deep end. I have to trust Poch with this
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JKendall13
Well-Known Member
- Jul 2, 2012
- 1,040
- 6,953
After watching Match of the Day, I think we were actually much better today than on the first viewing. Villa didn’t create much besides the goal which was just a speculative long ball that we cocked up.
We were also horrific in front of goal for the first 60 minutes. Kane missing a couple of those chances almost never happens.
Considering the number of players we had missing through injury, problems with Poch, and still bedding in after signing I’m definitely feeling better than after the first watch.
Our squad is much less settled than it has been the last few seasons, it’s going to take awhile to reach top form. Hope people are patient. We also had better xG splits than both Liverpool and City even though they romped.
We were also horrific in front of goal for the first 60 minutes. Kane missing a couple of those chances almost never happens.
Considering the number of players we had missing through injury, problems with Poch, and still bedding in after signing I’m definitely feeling better than after the first watch.
Our squad is much less settled than it has been the last few seasons, it’s going to take awhile to reach top form. Hope people are patient. We also had better xG splits than both Liverpool and City even though they romped.
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mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
- 21,889
- 32,561
This isn't a one off though, a lot of times last season Poch would set the team up in one shape and fairly quickly have to change it as the team struggled.
Obviously a game is 90 minutes and the opportunity is there to make changes and get a result, but it would be nice to start coming out with the 'right' game plan, especially when some of these issues/selections keep getting repeated and are now looking fairly obvious to the vast majority, but keep occurring. Towards the end of last season fans were starting to bemoan our slow starts and lack of first half goals, and the often needed early reshuffle of our starting tactics must be a huge part of that.
