Ramos - master tactician?

[onlyonekeano]

I've always had faith in him up until tonight but now I am not so sure..

Last time we played against Chelsea away, we looked solid and well organised. Obviously still lacking any firepower up front but still defended as a team and in numbers.

Fast forward two weeks, and what does he do? Drops half the midfield and brings in another defensive midfielder. Fair enough to change to a 4-4-2, but at least play somebody in the left midfield position! Modric then Jenas then Bentley all left the position vacant as they were being played out of position, leaving the team lacking structure and Bale facing two defenders by himself every time he attacked.

When Ramos finally remembered he had a solely left footed player in the squad, he played him in a free role and still not on the left. Gio looked bright but ended up playing on the same side as Lennon - what's the point? Bentley looked half decent as well when he came on but left a gaping hole on the left and made the centre look crowded.

He has been here for close to a year and it seems he still does not have a clue what is best team is.

And finally, how can he not see that Dawson is shit? He is making Gary Doherty look like Bobby Moore. It's not like it's been a sudden drop in form - he's been a liability for over a year now. If we can all see it, how does Ramos not? After his performance against Boro in our first game, surely he would have realised that he has not improved since last season. I do wonder whether Kaboul would have been a success had he played alongside Woodgate at the start of last season.

 

[spursfan1991]

We can't afford another managerial change, he needs to be given more time. We lost to an excellent side today.

 

[Kendall]

Obviously I wouldn't want to talk about changing the manager butI'm very worried about our form since Ramos took over, it's like we;ve never got going. I always said any team can fluke a cup, proven last year by the 3 championship semi finalists in the fa cup and the likes of boro, millwall, wigan and bolton making finals in recent years so I kinda of ignore that when judging manager's performances and look at the nitty gritty, week in, week out performances and under ramos its been shoddy.

 

[mil1lion]

I wont lose faith in Ramos just yet but i'm more and more concerned. Our 2 best players tonight were Giovani and Bentley by a mile and both started on the bench. I was really surprised we made several changes from the Chelsea game. The intrnational break came at the wrong time but the fact is, everyone played like strangers tonight. And in a way, they are.

 

[Krafty]

I'll give him time by jesus christ I seriously dont know what he was doing last night.

Got to the game a minute late, spent the tube journey up there trying to work out with my friends who was playing in midfield. Blimey were we in for a surprise.

I dont know if he was trying something, but it certainly didnt work. The players are new, dont all speak English, so why are we trying to confuse them further? Lets get a simple, basic 4-4-2 at home, with right wingers on the the right wing, left wingers on the elft, and central midfielders in the middle of the park. That would be a start

 

[Robbiepope]

We have so many new players and old players (some key) leave that things are going to take a while until we can really see what this team is capable of.

Ramos is the only option and needs time.

The best thing Spurs fans can do is really get behind the team at the moment. Unfortunately Im not so sure this will happen .

 

[monkeynick]

I wont lose faith in Ramos just yet but i'm more and more concerned. Our 2 best players tonight were Giovani and Bentley by a mile and both started on the bench. I was really surprised we made several changes from the Chelsea game. The intrnational break came at the wrong time but the fact is, everyone played like strangers tonight. And in a way, they are.

I think that is a bit harsh on Jenas who I thought showed a bit of drive and determination when he came on and was our best player IMO (and I wouldn't normally jump to defend him!)
I am quite concerned Ramos' habit of constantly playing players out of position, they really didn't look like they knew where they should be playing.
Poor David Bentley was bought to the club having been a brilliant right sided midfielder for the last couple of seasons and has yet to play there.

 

[van_Pommel]

I have absolute faith in Ramos. He has a new group to work with and I'm sure its not the finished article either(I think last night illistrated the need for a top class CM who will complement JJ better). He will find a way to get this group playing well, whether it be 442, 4231, or 433. I think I've we'd got Capel in the transfer window we'd be looking alot more balanced now, as it is we really need Bale at LM, but are Gilberto or Ekotto good enough? Maybe we should let O'Hara play LB.

Anyway, in Ramos I trust. He needs time, and time he shall have(as long as we're not in danger of being relegated by the new year).

 

[mil1lion]

I think Ramos' problem at the moment is, he is overcomplicating things. He keeps changing formationa and tactics. Thats the worst thing you can do with all the new players. I thought the reason for this in the first few games was becasue of Berbatov. Without having anyone up alongside Bent, he tried different players in behind him and changed the formation around to find the best way to play 1 striker. But now he has 3 strikers and no need to keep experimenting.

And i dont agree that Jenas played that well last night. He brought some urgency in midfield and did ok, but in all the wrong places. He didn't drive forward where it matters and i dont even recall seeing him get in the box during open play. He did nothing in the final 3rd which is where it counts, and had 1 hopeful long shot which was going well wide but deflected off Bent for the goal. Giovani and Bentley tried to break through and had a few shots each, but just couldn't break through the Villa wall. At least they drove forward in the final 3rd and tried to get goals.

 

[Captain Spur]

I have absolute faith in Ramos. He has a new group to work with and I'm sure its not the finished article either(I think last night illistrated the need for a top class CM who will complement JJ better). He will find a way to get this group playing well, whether it be 442, 4231, or 433. I think I've we'd got Capel in the transfer window we'd be looking alot more balanced now, as it is we really need Bale at LM, but are Gilberto or Ekotto good enough? Maybe we should let O'Hara play LB.

Anyway, in Ramos I trust. He needs time, and time he shall have(as long as we're not in danger of being relegated by the new year).

I think if we'd signed the entire Man U or Chelsea team we'd be looking a lot more balanced, but as we didn't we can't talk about players we were nowhere near buying adding balance.

Ramos has got to start playing players in their best positions and see what happens. As someone mentioned about Bentley, he was one of the best right wingers in the game and now he looks lost on the pitch, you can see how frustrated he is.

As i've said before British players can rarely play mulitple positions, they just simply aren't properly schooled. They need to play their favoured spot or they just don't look the same.

I think Ramos is a good manager and will probably (hopefully!) get it right, but a good place to start would be by playing players in their best positions.

 

[hellava_tough]

I'll give him time by jesus christ I seriously dont know what he was doing last night.

Got to the game a minute late, spent the tube journey up there trying to work out with my friends who was playing in midfield. Blimey were we in for a surprise.

I dont know if he was trying something, but it certainly didnt work. The players are new, dont all speak English, so why are we trying to confuse them further? Lets get a simple, basic 4-4-2 at home, with right wingers on the the right wing, left wingers on the elft, and central midfielders in the middle of the park. That would be a start

Absolutely right. FFS, it's not difficult:

Bentley---Modric---Jenas/Hudd/Zoko---Dos Santos

THAT team midfield would start kicking arse if it were played week in, week out. Why does Ramos try to complicate things?

 

[van_Pommel]

I think if we'd signed the entire Man U or Chelsea team we'd be looking a lot more balanced, but as we didn't we can't talk about players we were nowhere near buying adding balance.

Ramos has got to start playing players in their best positions and see what happens. As someone mentioned about Bentley, he was one of the best right wingers in the game and now he looks lost on the pitch, you can see how frustrated he is.

As i've said before British players can rarely play mulitple positions, they just simply aren't properly schooled. They need to play their favoured spot or they just don't look the same.

I think Ramos is a good manager and will probably (hopefully!) get it right, but a good place to start would be by playing players in their best positions.

That was a cheap shot pal. I was merely demonstrating that we were clearly after a left winger. We didnt get one, so balance is going to be tough to achieve. Bale is head and shoulders above anyone we have a LM, so we need to put someone else at LB.

 

[Captain Spur]

That was a cheap shot pal. I was merely demonstrating that we were clearly after a left winger. We didnt get one, so balance is going to be tough to achieve. Bale is head and shoulders above anyone we have a LM, so we need to put someone else at LB.

Yeah your right, I wasn't having a go at you, just bloody frustrated in the way we're playing.

I personnally think Dos Santos would be worth a go on that side, or even Lennon. He can't cross from either wing, so it wouldn't matter him being on the left. Whereas our best crosser Bentley can they play where he should play....on the bloody right hand side!!

 

[Viper]

I think that is a bit harsh on Jenas who I thought showed a bit of drive and determination when he came on and was our best player IMO (and I wouldn't normally jump to defend him!)
I am quite concerned Ramos' habit of constantly playing players out of position, they really didn't look like they knew where they should be playing.
Poor David Bentley was bought to the club having been a brilliant right sided midfielder for the last couple of seasons and has yet to play there.

I agree, i thought Jenas gave us much more drive and energy in midfield when he came on, and made a great last ditch block at the end to deny Harewood another goal. That showed the character of the lad that he was the only won prepared to bust his balls to track back, just where our defence went to who knows??

 

[Adam]

Absolutely right. FFS, it's not difficult:

Bentley---Modric---Jenas/Hudd/Zoko---Dos Santos

THAT team midfield would start kicking arse if it were played week in, week out. Why does Ramos try to complicate things?

NO NO NO!

That would not kick arse! That would get dominated in centre midfield JUST as it did last night! We havent got the players to play 4-4-2-once we establish that we can start making some progress and move up the bloody table!

 

[DEFchenkOE]

I must say I was really surprised by our starting line-up, for starters, everyone knows pace is not Corluka's greatest asset but he plays him rb on his debut against Ashley Young. Would have started Gunter personally.

Next, Modric left wing??? Why oh why?? he is not a left winger, not even a winger, needs to be played centrally, preferebally attacking until he is physically able to orchestrate from deeper.

Please Ramos either play a 4-4-2 with people in their correct positions or play a 4-2-3-1 and give the 2 defensive midfielders specific roles.

I seriously want Ramos to succeed at our club, I like what he done at Sevilla but our league form has been awful. I have faith in him but I'm worried right now, it really hurts to see us playing such awful football. We can hardly create a chance and all our goals seem to be pure fortune.

Let's hope things can get better.

 

[hybridsoldier]

I think we need to look at the fact we had 12 corners and not even one tested the goalkeeper.

Thats an appaling stat, set pieces are absolutely vital when its not working from open and we had sweet feck all from all set pieces

 

[teddyboy]

I've always had faith in him up until tonight but now I am not so sure..

Last time we played against Chelsea away, we looked solid and well organised. Obviously still lacking any firepower up front but still defended as a team and in numbers.

Fast forward two weeks, and what does he do? Drops half the midfield and brings in another defensive midfielder. Fair enough to change to a 4-4-2, but at least play somebody in the left midfield position! Modric then Jenas then Bentley all left the position vacant as they were being played out of position, leaving the team lacking structure and Bale facing two defenders by himself every time he attacked.

When Ramos finally remembered he had a solely left footed player in the squad, he played him in a free role and still not on the left. Gio looked bright but ended up playing on the same side as Lennon - what's the point? Bentley looked half decent as well when he came on but left a gaping hole on the left and made the centre look crowded.

He has been here for close to a year and it seems he still does not have a clue what is best team is.

And finally, how can he not see that Dawson is shit? He is making Gary Doherty look like Bobby Moore. It's not like it's been a sudden drop in form - he's been a liability for over a year now. If we can all see it, how does Ramos not? After his performance against Boro in our first game, surely he would have realised that he has not improved since last season. I do wonder whether Kaboul would have been a success had he played alongside Woodgate at the start of last season.

:rofl: it makes me laugh

and it makes me cry

 

[Michey]

If a club put their manager in the position where they sell two of the best players without replacing them it's a fuckin stab in the back. Ramos has been professional about the situation and not moaned etc. Just think about what Mr Rednose, Whinger would do......

And the fans opts to thank him by posting unintelligent shite.

 

[onlyonekeano]

If a club put their manager in the position where they sell two of the best players without replacing them it's a fuckin stab in the back. Ramos has been professional about the situation and not moaned etc. Just think about what Mr Rednose, Whinger would do......

And the fans opts to thank him by posting unintelligent shite.

I don't think any of what people are saying is unintelligent shite.

People have hit the nail on the head with the comment that Ramos is trying to overcomplicate things with players that perhaps lack the tactical ability compared to the ones he coached with great success at Sevilla.

I agree that we need to play a simple 4-4-2 for the time being with people in their correct positions. It also makes me wonder about the buying policy - if we wanted Modric/Bentley to play on the left, why wasn't the money spent on an actual left winger?

It also struck me last night that Martin O'Neill had turned Villa into a very strong team without doing anything spectacular. He played a traditional 4-4-2 with two pacy wide players that doubled up with the full back when they defended and broke with pace. Their two strikers consisted of the tried and tested comination of one to hold the ball up and one to look to run into the space behind. Their central midfield had the sort of balance we have been lacking since Carrick left, mainly due to Barry putting in the sort of performance that shows exactly what we are lacking.

And having lost both of their full backs over the summer (Mellberg and Bouma), their summer signings (Young and Shorey) had actually been made with the intention of replacing them! It's not rocket science, yet O'Neill seems to be capable of getting it right and our confusing continental structure seems to be failing.