Premier League officially postponed until 17th of June

[vegassd]

I really think they should null and void this season and concentrate on how to get next season started

But where is the logic in that statement? Not a personal dig at you, but I don't know where this idea comes from that if we void the current season it will make it easier to start next season.

What is becoming apparent about this virus is that it isn't going to be "gone" any time soon - perhaps not ever - and that the path to a vaccine is a long one. So when football does return it will be facing the same sorts of problems as it is currently. I don't see that voiding the current season makes next season any more viable.

By getting things going now it gives the authorities a chance to work out the logistical kinks and to monitor how effective their efforts are. If people get ill or players refuse to play then there is still the option to call things off - we would be losing the last 9 matches of an already disrupted season. But if we wait until next season to see what happens, and staff get ill or players refuse to play, then we could be looking at calling off another entire season.

To my mind it is right for the people in charge to be trying everything and keeping all options on the table. That includes things like distanced training, testing club staff, extra sub slots, no VAR, shortened games etc. Voiding the season removes a lot of those options from the table and we wouldn't know how effective or disruptive they might be.

This season has become a clusterfuck and is likely going to end a clusterfuck, so why not use the end of it to see what things work and what things don't so that next season (if and when it happens) can be as successful as possible.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

But where is the logic in that statement? Not a personal dig at you, but I don't know where this idea comes from that if we void the current season it will make it easier to start next season.

What is becoming apparent about this virus is that it isn't going to be "gone" any time soon - perhaps not ever - and that the path to a vaccine is a long one. So when football does return it will be facing the same sorts of problems as it is currently. I don't see that voiding the current season makes next season any more viable.

By getting things going now it gives the authorities a chance to work out the logistical kinks and to monitor how effective their efforts are. If people get ill or players refuse to play then there is still the option to call things off - we would be losing the last 9 matches of an already disrupted season. But if we wait until next season to see what happens, and staff get ill or players refuse to play, then we could be looking at calling off another entire season.

To my mind it is right for the people in charge to be trying everything and keeping all options on the table. That includes things like distanced training, testing club staff, extra sub slots, no VAR, shortened games etc. Voiding the season removes a lot of those options from the table and we wouldn't know how effective or disruptive they might be.

This season has become a clusterfuck and is likely going to end a clusterfuck, so why not use the end of it to see what things work and what things don't so that next season (if and when it happens) can be as successful as possible.

I think they should void this season right now.

There is no way that this season can be completed in a way that will avoid being unfair to some teams, and in a way that can maintain the integrity of the competition.

So there are a few priorities, none of which require the completion of this season:

Work out a way to re-commence football safely when the time is right.

Maintain the integrity of the competition and avoid anything that will compromise next season, whenever that might happen.

Find a way to protect the survival of as many clubs as possible by co-ordinated action instead of dog-eats-dog self-interested competition.

If you want to experiment with ways of running football matches safely, set up a new one-off competition for the summer, or whenever it's safe to do so.. Don't use the dregs of this season as a laboratory for next season while pretending that it's just the 2019/20 season running it natural course.

 

[wayneg]

To my mind it is right for the people in charge to be trying everything and keeping all options on the table. That includes things like distanced training, testing club staff, extra sub slots, no VAR, shortened games etc. Voiding the season removes a lot of those options from the table and we wouldn't know how effective or disruptive they might be.

This season has become a clusterfuck and is likely going to end a clusterfuck, so why not use the end of it to see what things work and what things don't so that next season (if and when it happens) can be as successful as possible.

Because bringing in new things such as extra subs, shortened games is undoubtedly an integrity issue for the league, especially with the threat of relegation for 3 teams and the massive financial impact on those clubs. Even though this season will end in a mess no matter what way it goes, I believe if they are to finish this season it must be done fairly and have integrity about it.

 

[dudu]

But where is the logic in that statement? Not a personal dig at you, but I don't know where this idea comes from that if we void the current season it will make it easier to start next season.

What is becoming apparent about this virus is that it isn't going to be "gone" any time soon - perhaps not ever - and that the path to a vaccine is a long one. So when football does return it will be facing the same sorts of problems as it is currently. I don't see that voiding the current season makes next season any more viable.

By getting things going now it gives the authorities a chance to work out the logistical kinks and to monitor how effective their efforts are. If people get ill or players refuse to play then there is still the option to call things off - we would be losing the last 9 matches of an already disrupted season. But if we wait until next season to see what happens, and staff get ill or players refuse to play, then we could be looking at calling off another entire season.

To my mind it is right for the people in charge to be trying everything and keeping all options on the table. That includes things like distanced training, testing club staff, extra sub slots, no VAR, shortened games etc. Voiding the season removes a lot of those options from the table and we wouldn't know how effective or disruptive they might be.

This season has become a clusterfuck and is likely going to end a clusterfuck, so why not use the end of it to see what things work and what things don't so that next season (if and when it happens) can be as successful as possible.

It's not necessarily about viability.

The game is going to change even just with there being no fans there. Training is changing, the rules in-game are going to change, players may be less aggressive etc.

I understand why clubs may not feel its fair to have their premier league survival or even placing decided under these circumstances when their rivals may have an unfair advantage by having played team x home or away pre COVID.

By voiding this season and preparing to start next you are giving everyone the chance to start again on even footing.

Plus by putting things off until August you can just play friendlies instead which will give everyone a chance to get up to speed on how things are going to work.

 

[Mr Pink]

Voiding this season and preparing for next season is by far the most safe and sensible course of action.

1) Integrity is severly compromised restarting this season.

2) The rate of infection will undoubtedly be lower in three months, probably significantly lower ultimately alievating stress on our national resources and providing a far safer environment for players

3) This extra three months will allow more time for planning in what is a very fluid situation. Rushed decisions under hugely pressurised conditions, brought about by the footballing authorities, could have huge detrimental ramifications for some Clubs.

 

[thecook]

I just still can't believe there was no emergency plan or policy in place across the Premier League and FA for a situation when a season cannot be finished, or is in danger of not being able to be finished. It just beggars belief

 

[vegassd]

I think they should void this season right now.

There is no way that this season can be completed in a way that will avoid being unfair to some teams, and in a way that can maintain the integrity of the competition.

So there are a few priorities, none of which require the completion of this season:

Work out a way to re-commence football safely when the time is right.

Maintain the integrity of the competition and avoid anything that will compromise next season, whenever that might happen.

Find a way to protect the survival of as many clubs as possible by co-ordinated action instead of dog-eats-dog self-interested competition.

I totally agree that the current season cannot be completed in a "fair" manner - that's just the reality of the situation. Whatever solution arrives will be one of compromise and will hopefully be the "least worst". The integrity of the competition will always be called into question and there is simply no way to avoid that.

If you want to experiment with ways of running football matches safely, set up a new one-off competition for the summer, or whenever it's safe to do so.. Don't use the dregs of this season as a laboratory for next season while pretending that it's just the 2019/20 season running it natural course.

But what would the point of that be? Why would clubs and players want to take part in a competition that has no bearing on anything in terms of relegation/promotion or financial implications? Why put those people at any risk at all for something that is even less important than finishing the current season?

The priorities you gave above include:

1. Re-commence football safely
2. Maintain the integrity of the competition
3. Avoid anything that compromises next season
4. Protect club survival

Finishing up the current season achieves all of those apart from the integrity, but I feel that the integrity has gone no matter what. Voiding and waiting achieves none of them. Creating a new "tester" competition would only satisfy 1 & 3.

Just to be clear, I'm in no way advocating putting money ahead of people's health, and I personally don't think that playing football will be a completely safe endeavour. But there are very few workplaces that are going to be completely safe for quite some time. We are looking at choosing from the best of a bad bunch here and I see voiding the season (without attempting to restart) as only kicking the can down the road.

 

[vegassd]

It's not necessarily about viability.

The game is going to change even just with there being no fans there. Training is changing, the rules in-game are going to change, players may be less aggressive etc.

I understand why clubs may not feel its fair to have their premier league survival or even placing decided under these circumstances when their rivals may have an unfair advantage by having played team x home or away pre COVID.

By voiding this season and preparing to start next you are giving everyone the chance to start again on even footing.

Plus by putting things off until August you can just play friendlies instead which will give everyone a chance to get up to speed on how things are going to work.

Absolutely - the game is going to change. The world is going to change for a while. Of course it isn't fair for the relegation clubs but surely it's equally unfair on the clubs missing promotion? It's unfair on every club who will be unable to act in the transfer market. It's unfair on all the support staff who will lose their jobs. It's unfair on clubs like Sheffield and Wolves who will potentially lose out on European football. It's unfair on all the clubs going broke.

Whatever happens it's going to be unfair and it's going to affect some teams worse than others. Voiding the season doesn't makes things fair - it just alters the balance of unfairness.

I think the real danger here is viewing the PL in a bubble and thinking solely about what is best for the PL. We should be thinking about what is best for football as a whole. How can the sport pull together to protect as many clubs as possible. Putting things off until August means that all football clubs will suffer for the next 10 weeks, and there is nothing to say that come August everything can go back to how it was.

I'm not trying to saying that finishing the current season is fair because it's not. What I'm saying is that voiding the current season doesn't help prepare for the next and it doesn't mean that we magically go back to normal at some point. The best preparation for next season isn't going to be more theoretical planning, a new competition or just playing friendlies. It will be trying to complete this season and learning which compromises are the acceptable ones and where improvements need to be made.

 

[thekneaf]

I just still can't believe there was no emergency plan or policy in place across the Premier League and FA for a situation when a season cannot be finished, or is in danger of not being able to be finished. It just beggars belief

Or more importantly, clause in the contract that avoids clubs needing to pay back money in these circumstances.

 

[wayneg]

As most have all pointed out there is no way to finish the season with integrity, I was trying to think of the fairest way to end the season, only thing I could come up with was the season to end, all placings remain the same, Liverpool awarded title, however the bottom 3 go into a relegation/promotion play off - that would keep relegated prem sides a bit happier, as their fate is still in their own hands and top 3 in Championship also have their fate in their own hands, there would be 5 games, behind closed doors, would be a lot of interest from broadcasters due to the scale of the games.

Norwich v Fulham
Villa v West Brom
Bournemouth v Leeds

Winner of Bournemouth match gets to play premier league.
Winner of Villa match gets to play premier league.

Winner of Norwich match plays the loser of Villa match with the winner of this match playing the loser of the Leeds match in the final premier league decider match.

That play off scenario is fairer for sides placed better in their own leagues as it gives them a second chance match.

Again there will prob be a lot of problems with the above, going to be messy whatever they decide.

 

[Trotter]

Or more importantly, clause in the contract that avoids clubs needing to pay back money in these circumstances.

Would love to see the wording of that contract.
We will pay you up front for the specified services you are to provide, but if you can't provide them, don't worry, you can keep our money anyway.

Any business would be jumping through hoops to sign contracts like that

 

[thecook]

Or more importantly, clause in the contract that avoids clubs needing to pay back money in these circumstances.

I've been wondering about the contracts. Surely the contract for TV monies is solely between the TV companies and the Premier League, and then it is up to the Premier League to distribute it to the clubs in accordance with their rules. I suspect there is no clause concerning clubs refunding the money to the PL, and so legally I think we could see clubs expecting the Premier League to carry the can for refunding ther TV companies, rather than the clubs.

 

[Trotter]

I've been wondering about the contracts. Surely the contract for TV monies is solely between the TV companies and the Premier League, and then it is up to the Premier League to distribute it to the clubs in accordance with their rules. I suspect there is no clause concerning clubs refunding the money to the PL, and so legally I think we could see clubs expecting the Premier League to carry the can for refunding ther TV companies, rather than the clubs.

The Premier League is the clubs. Each club owns 5% of the Premier League, well actually just under 5% (as the FA has a "special share")

 

[FITZ]

I just still can't believe there was no emergency plan or policy in place across the Premier League and FA for a situation when a season cannot be finished, or is in danger of not being able to be finished. It just beggars belief

There is and there is precedent in the lower leagues.

If you complete 75% of fixtures then it’s done on ppg. Under 75% then voided.

Problem is that as it’s on the cusp - Liverpool 76% - Man City 73%

So that’s what’s confusing things further...

 

[thekneaf]

Would love to see the wording of that contract.
We will pay you up front for the specified services you are to provide, but if you can't provide them, don't worry, you can keep our money anyway.

Any business would be jumping through hoops to sign contracts like that

I'm pretty sure future contacts will address pandemics directly, so they'll be plenty of lawyers discussing this right now.

I'm interested in what the wording is currently.

And for your jumping through hoops comment, people sign and offer insane contracts all the time. Look no further than Ozil.

I think it's a mistake to think that massive corporations don't mess this stuff up. We're already pretty sure the PL don't have an agreement in place for what to do in event of an unfinished season regarding winners, relegation and European places, so I'm drawing a conclusion from that that it's just not factored into their thinking at any level.

 

[SpunkyBackpack]

Can we have an amnesty on people using the word 'integrity' for 24hrs please? It's lost all meaning.

 

[Maxtremist]

As most have all pointed out there is no way to finish the season with integrity, I was trying to think of the fairest way to end the season, only thing I could come up with was the season to end, all placings remain the same, Liverpool awarded title, however the bottom 3 go into a relegation/promotion play off - that would keep relegated prem sides a bit happier, as their fate is still in their own hands and top 3 in Championship also have their fate in their own hands, there would be 5 games, behind closed doors, would be a lot of interest from broadcasters due to the scale of the games.

Norwich v Fulham
Villa v West Brom
Bournemouth v Leeds

Winner of Bournemouth match gets to play premier league.
Winner of Villa match gets to play premier league.

Winner of Norwich match plays the loser of Villa match with the winner of this match playing the loser of the Leeds match in the final premier league decider match.

That play off scenario is fairer for sides placed better in their own leagues as it gives them a second chance match.

Again there will prob be a lot of problems with the above, going to be messy whatever they decide.

I massively disagree with that. Why would Bournemouth be happy about this? They realistically could have gotten out of the drop zone and Watford can be there. Why make them play for their lives when Watford can sit happy and safe.
Aston Villa have a game in hand. They win that, they're out of the Bottom three.
Norwich might prefer a one off match to stay in the league but still might have fancied their chances better VS prem sides who don't care as opposed to Fulham who have something to play for.

Not to mention why Fulham? The other playoff teams would have something to say about that. Yes Fulham have the points but 3rd plays doesn't always go up.

I appreciate the thought but I think this adds more questions/opposition than it answers.

 

[Maxtremist]

I was waiting for something like this and you know what? I think it's valid.

Norwich raise relegation objections

Norwich say relegation from the Premier League should be scrapped if the top flight completes its season but the Championship does not.

www.bbc.co.uk

How can the season be restarted with relegation on the table if the championship doesn't get restarted? Or how is it fair if the prem finishes the season and Leeds etc... get promoted after they did PPG or stopped the season early?

 

[wayneg]

I massively disagree with that. Why would Bournemouth be happy about this? They realistically could have gotten out of the drop zone and Watford can be there. Why make them play for their lives when Watford can sit happy and safe.
Aston Villa have a game in hand. They win that, they're out of the Bottom three.
Norwich might prefer a one off match to stay in the league but still might have fancied their chances better VS prem sides who don't care as opposed to Fulham who have something to play for.

Not to mention why Fulham? The other playoff teams would have something to say about that. Yes Fulham have the points but 3rd plays doesn't always go up.

I appreciate the thought but I think this adds more questions/opposition than it answers.

As said relegated clubs would be happier with this method as opposed to being automatically relegated under current positions / PPG, that was my thinking.

 

[Maxtremist]

As said relegated clubs would be happier with this method as opposed to being automatically relegated under current positions / PPG, that was my thinking.

It's why I brought up Villa who have a game in hand so PPG I think might favour them. Either way, them having a game in hand that could take them out of the relegation zone would/is a big stumbling block in all of this. Would be slightly different if everyone had played the same number of games.