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Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
17,324
45,909
On the face of it it just doesn't add up to me.

Everton have hardly been throwing cash around.

Obviously the others played it a bit smarter with the way they manipulated the books to massage their incomes.
I'm not saying City etc aren't also guilty. I'm saying that, as a lawyer, can understand why Everton was handled faster than City.

City have 100+ charges of breaching FFP over about nine years. That takes an inordinate amount of time to investigate and deal with procedurally.

The rules are complex and although from the outside one might posit that City and Chelsea are obviously breaching the rules, the reality of bringing and upholding a decision and sanction is extremely difficult and time consuming.
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,439
22,967
I'm not saying City etc aren't also guilty. I'm saying that, as a lawyer, can understand why Everton was handled faster than City.

City have 100+ charges of breaching FFP over about nine years. That takes an inordinate amount of time to investigate and deal with procedurally.
That just makes the whole thing worse.

What are they going to do if found guilty of all those charges down the years? Backdate all the titles/cups to other teams? Change losing to bets to winners and winning bets to losers...

All the while still letting them continue to rack up the charges (and trophies)

So rather than go the Everton route of doing it once (or however many times?)
It's better to go the Jarndyce and Jarndyce route... (one for the Dickens fans ;) )
 

The Scarecrow

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2013
5,478
11,670
I'm not saying City etc aren't also guilty. I'm saying that, as a lawyer, can understand why Everton was handled faster than City.

City have 100+ charges of breaching FFP over about nine years. That takes an inordinate amount of time to investigate and deal with procedurally.

The rules are complex and although from the outside one might posit that City and Chelsea are obviously breaching the rules, the reality of bringing and upholding a decision and sanction is extremely difficult and time consuming.
If they're found guilty, it's be well worth the wait. Based on this pretty hefty punishment for just the one charge, I can't see City (and possibly Chelsea) escaping demotion.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,091
15,378
On the face of it it just doesn't add up to me.

Everton have hardly been throwing cash around.

Obviously the others played it a bit smarter with the way they manipulated the books to massage their incomes.
Everton net spent £67m in 17/18, £60m in 18/19, £29m in 19/20, and £61m in 20/21 before the money dried up. By 20/21 they were also spending £105m per year on wages, comfortably the highest in the league outside the "big six" who all raised signficantly more revenue. In not a single one of these seasons did they even manage to recoup any of that expenditure by qualifying for Europe. It would have been irresponsible at the best of times - doing it while building a new stadium was reckless, and continuing even after the first Covid lockdown was beyond belief. It was a failed attempt at financial doping, pure and simple, and it wouldn't have stopped if not for Usmanov being impacted by the consequences of Russia's war on Ukraine. During the same time period clubs like ourselves had net spends of zero to mitigate the risk while building our own new ground, and if their plan had worked, Everton would've finished ahead of us in those seasons by cheating. I have huge sympathy for the fans, but they'd have happily rejoiced had the plan worked and got them into Europe. The punishment for the club is entirely right and fair, and I hope the likes of City and Chelsea now face significantly worse.
 
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Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,306
16,783
Everton net spent £67m in 17/18, £60m in 18/19, £29m in 19/20, and £61m in 20/21 before the money dried up. By 20/21 they were also spending £105m per year on wages, comfortably the highest in the league outside the "big six" who all raised signficantly more revenue. In not a single one of these seasons did they even manage to recoup any of that expenditure by qualifying for Europe. It would have been irresponsible at the best of times - doing it while building a new stadium it was reckless, and continuing even after the first Covid lockdown was beyond belief. It was a failed attempt at financial doping, pure and simple, and it wouldn't have stopped if not for Usmanov being impacted by the consequences of Russia's war on Ukraine. During the same time period clubs like ourselves had net spends of zero to mitigate the risk while building our own new ground, and if their plan had worked, Everton would've finished ahead of us in those seasons by cheating. I have huge sympathy for the fans, but they'd have happily rejoiced had the plan worked and got them into Europe. The punishment for the club is entirely right and fair, and I hope the likes of City and Chelsea now face significantly worse.

this a million times over. Why are people feeling sorry for Everton and their shitty fans? They cheated just like Chelsea and just like Man City. The whatabouttery at this stage is pointless, all we can do is sit and wait to see what sanctions are imposed on the others and hope that they get everything that is deservedly coming to them.
 

superted4

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2006
186
521
I think people feel for Everton fans, purely and simply because we all know Man City and possibly Chelsea will not be treated the same way. Everton aren't going to be the benchmark they're more than likely the exception.
 

Pochemon94

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2019
1,421
3,550
I think people feel for Everton fans, purely and simply because we all know Man City and possibly Chelsea will not be treated the same way. Everton aren't going to be the benchmark they're more than likely the exception.
the thing is this is a nonsense punishment, 10 points won't get them relegated and they were never going to get a european place. just a typical slap on the wrist.
 

glacierSpurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2013
16,038
25,285
the thing is this is a nonsense punishment, 10 points won't get them relegated and they were never going to get a european place. just a typical slap on the wrist.
Unless that is for one charge. So it will be over - 1000 points for Citeh and a few hundred docked for chelscum at least. Madness I know, but you would expect the punishment on these two cheating clubs to have been much much much more severe.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,514
15,381
Does anyone seriously think Man City, Chelsea, will suffer in the same way as Everton ? I don't. It just isn't going to happen.
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,439
22,967
this a million times over. Why are people feeling sorry for Everton and their shitty fans? They cheated just like Chelsea and just like Man City. The whatabouttery at this stage is pointless, all we can do is sit and wait to see what sanctions are imposed on the others and hope that they get everything that is deservedly coming to them.
Can't see anyone feeling sorry for them on here...

Just the fact that we have yet to see anything like this aimed at those that deserve it (more so than Everton)
 

RuskyM

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
6,559
21,203
City aren't going to get this, largely because they've more lawyers to burn than the Premier League. It's just easier to punch down.
 

taidgh

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2004
7,719
15,446
Good article today in the Athletic on the use of Tramadol by footballers at all levels. Is there a doping thread in here? I'll post a link in there if needed.
I'd like to read that. Would you mind posting it here?
 

SirHarryHotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
4,497
6,536
City aren't going to get this, largely because they've more lawyers to burn than the Premier League. It's just easier to punch down.
If City are found guilty and not punished like Everton why would the other clubs sit around doing nothing about it , it's the clubs that make the rules they are the PL shareholders and it needs 14 clubs to agree on a rule change . Perhaps they could even vote for expulsion of Man City.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
18,651
54,980
Seems to me that a precedent has now been set. Everton breached FFP by about 20m from what I've read in a single season. City and Chelsea have been taking the piss for a decade or more and if they don't get the same scale of punishment a lot of a lot of question will need to be answered. They've cheated and defrauded every other club in every competition they've been in.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
17,324
45,909
City aren't going to get this, largely because they've more lawyers to burn than the Premier League. It's just easier to punch down.
All PL clubs have top lawyers. I know this for an absolute fact.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
17,324
45,909
Unless that is for one charge. So it will be over - 1000 points for Citeh and a few hundred docked for chelscum at least. Madness I know, but you would expect the punishment on these two cheating clubs to have been much much much more severe.
The sanctions won't scale linearly, but yes, City face a potentially much larger sanction.
 

ikky

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
8,821
20,911
Good article today in the Athletic on the use of Tramadol by footballers at all levels. Is there a doping thread in here? I'll post a link in there if needed.
Isn’t tramadol a pain killer and also potentially addictive if taken long term?
 
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