Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

[Navin R Johnson]

The factor on which I base whether Poch should stay as manager is on if he is the right man to help the squad for the next 1-3 years.

Us beating or drawing with Watford will not change that.

In isolation I'd agree with you, if it was a one off result during a good sequence of results. But taken as a part of a sequence of poor to indifferent results and performances I'd say you have to look at the bigger picture. Personally I reached my tipping point today, I genuinely don't feel he is the man to help the squad for the next 1-3 years. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to fail just so he gets the sack but I think it's inevitable now.

I have no ego about this stuff so if he turns things round starting tomorrow feel free to come back and haunt me with this post.

EDIT: It's feeling like the final days of previous manager's reigns prior to them leaving the club, Ramos, Jol, AVB, how far do you want to go back?

 

[Ben1]

My concern is this: the 'project' has two parts:

1. Win now, need CL to help rebuild
2. Rebuild.

I think Poch is best for part 2, but I don't see him achieving part 1 with these players this season. So it all comes down to a season of pain and patience or cutting loose.

Even if we stay patient, which poch probably deserves, without CL football and with the opportunities he gets, I could see him leaving only months into part 2 anyhow.

For this reason, I regrettably voted Poch out. The idea being that a shock turnaround manager could get results with this group now, before the new project starts afterwards, possibly with a different man in charge again (and possibly a very different squad).

 

[dontcallme]

In isolation I'd agree with you, if it was a one off result during a good sequence of results. But taken as a part of a sequence of poor to indifferent results and performances I'd say you have to look at the bigger picture. Personally I reached my tipping point today, I genuinely don't feel he is the man to help the squad for the next 1-3 years. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to fail just so he gets the sack but I think it's inevitable now.

I have no ego about this stuff so if he turns things round starting tomorrow feel free to come back and haunt me with this post.

Not at all, I have my doubts about his suitability to take us forward and the doubts get stronger every week.

Performances have been poor since the beginning of last season and it is deeply concerning that the issues have not been identified.

I remain on the fence.

 

[Navin R Johnson]

Not at all, I have my doubts about his suitability to take us forward and the doubts get stronger every week.

Performances have been poor since the beginning of last season and it is deeply concerning that the issues have not been identified.

I remain on the fence.

Wolves at Wembley was the start of the downward spiral, the CL run disguised it so to my mind the performances have been poor since 15:25 on 29th December 2018.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Not what I'm saying at all though is it?

6 months ago if we fired Poch and the board said the players were tired of him, had run them into the ground and we were going stale almost everyone would have gone nuts at getting rid of a manager who had us in the top four and bound for CL final after taking us to top 4 finishes 4 seasons in a row.

So am I going to say he should be fired after an awful start and a long period of bad results? Not necessarily.

That doesn't mean I am not worried about our performances or results but I do think we need to choose our next move correctly. Poch has taken these players as far as he can and we now need to work out if he is the right man for what it is to come.

The reason I sit on the fence is because the older I get the more I realise that we can't judge situations completely on the outsider info we get.

I respect the ITK we get but I don't use it to say if we should fire a manager anymore than what the manager says to the press or the body language of people.

I have to be totally honest and say that I have always judged and critiqued Poch and been totally fair and honest with what I see and have seen. I have also been totally aware of his shortfall in terms of adapting from one system to another or even his own preferred system. Poch, though has learned and understood that he can not continue with the counter-press, but more concerning is that he has never found a workable system to keep us competitive and that doesn't look like it can be resolved anytime soon.

We have stagnated to the point of total regression and possibly, right now in freefall and that for me is the most worrying aspect of the situation we find ourselves in right now.

I personally don't base my concerns on what ITK say or don't say tbh, I am merely using that to reinforce my point(s). If I could see any inkling that Poch could turn this around, then I would say back him, as the options to replace don't look that inviting tbh, but even if Poch bought reinforcements, it wouldn't matter unless he could players to play in a workable system. It's not about the football being played with style and attacking promise - right now it's about playing football to a playable level of acceptance.

I fully respect your decision to support him for now, but the more the club dither and deny, then the worse it will get.

 

[dontcallme]

Wolves at Wembley was the start of the downward spiral, the CL run disguised it so to my mind the performances have been poor since 15:25 on 29th December 2018.

Maybe, I remember at the beginning of last season thinking performances weren't great. But as results were good and we had the excuse of playing at Wembley for too long the concerns about performances were brushed off.

 

[dontcallme]

I have to be totally honest and say that I have always judged and critiqued Poch and been totally fair and honest with what I see and have seen. I have also been totally aware of his shortfall in terms of adapting from one system to another or even his own preferred system. Poch, though has learned and understood that he can not continue with the counter-press, but more concerning is that he has never found a workable system to keep us competitive and that doesn't look like it can be resolved anytime soon.

We have stagnated to the point of total regression and possibly, right now in freefall and that for me is the most worrying aspect of the situation we find ourselves in right now.

I personally don't base my concerns on what ITK say or don't say tbh, I am merely using that to reinforce my point(s). If I could see any inkling that Poch could turn this around, then I would say back him, as the options to replace don't look that inviting tbh, but even if Poch bought reinforcements, it wouldn't matter unless he could players to play in a workable system. It's not about the football being played with style and attacking promise - right now it's about playing football to a playable level of acceptance.

I fully respect your decision to support him for now, but the more the club dither and deny, then the worse it will get.

If Poch was fired tonight I would have no complaints. I believe he has done a very good job for us but with any manager he should only stay if he is the right manager for us from now moving forwards.

I'm actually more concerned at hearing the likes of Kane and Son aren't behind Poch more than the results.

 

[UncleBuck]

Common denominator here, numerous coaches over the last 12 months in different sports have stated they might/will leave their post and the team results have fallen off a cliff.
I think it stems from the top and the comments about leaving if we won the CL, why would any player want to sign up/buy in to a new contract if the coach wanted to move on if he won the CL?
Didn’t see Klopp do it, Pep would but then he is Pep...

 

[Primativ]

Wolves at Wembley was the start of the downward spiral, the CL run disguised it so to my mind the performances have been poor since 15:25 on 29th December 2018.

No it wasn’t. We were terrible from the beginning of last season, but it progressively got worse and we still managed to grind out wins despite our poor performances. As ever people correlate the decline with when the results turned bad but I remember clearly posting that results were not mirroring performances in September October November 2018 and that if we continued like we were, the results would turn bad, and they did.

 

[Navin R Johnson]

No it wasn’t. We were terrible from the beginning of last season, but it progressively got worse and we still managed to grind out wins despite our poor performances. As ever people correlate the decline with when the results turned bad but I remember clearly posting that results were not mirroring performances in September October November 2018 and that if we continued like we were, the results would turn bad, and they did.

I think you're right. ?

EDIT: I think there was a result/wool/eye interface and I fell for it in the manner you suggest, long before Eriksen and Dele started getting slated we'd picked up on the fact that they looked great on MOTD to neutrals but when you watched the whole ninety minutes they were consistently inconsistent, it fell on deaf ears.

 

[dimiSpur]

We need a rebuild no matter who the manager is. We have players that just aren't good enough (Winks, Aurier, Dele) or are past it (Rose, Toby, Verts etc).

So the question is who is the man to carry out the rebuild. If his heart is in it, then Poch should do it. If he's tired, then replace.

 

[Locotoro]

The way I see it - Poch got us to the UCL when we weren't quite good enough previously. He built a squad that got the the final when we didn't think it possible. Even if we finish in Europa League this year, he's proven himself capable to take us back to the UCL. I'd give him as long as he needs.

 

[whitesocks]

....

EDIT: It's feeling like the final days of previous manager's reigns prior to them leaving the club, Ramos, Jol, AVB, how far do you want to go back?

People used to leave early in protest, knowing that there wasn't much hope that something interesting might happen.
That would spook Levy.

So this time round he has set up a labyrinth of bars and food emporiums to cash in on these very same fans, suddenly finding they have an extra 30mins or so to kill and a need to be comforted. Levy thought of everything.

 

[dontcallme]

We need a rebuild no matter who the manager is. We have players that just aren't good enough (Winks, Aurier, Dele) or are past it (Rose, Toby, Verts etc).

So the question is who is the man to carry out the rebuild. If his heart is in it, then Poch should do it. If he's tired, then replace.

That has generally been my view.

But a rebuild, however big, will always be around a few players.

If the stories about Kane and Son not having faith in Poch are true then it’s time for a new manager

 

[Navin R Johnson]

People used to leave early in protest, knowing that there wasn't much hope that something interesting might happen.
That would spook Levy.

So this time round he has set up a labyrinth of bars and food emporiums to cash in on these very same fans, suddenly finding they have an extra 30mins or so to kill and a need to be comforted. Levy thought of everything.

But the all powerful MOTD cameras when they see people leaving in the 79th minute still report an exodus rather than an exodus to the set up of a labyrinth of bars and food emporiums. It's still negative publicity. I don't suppose the players look at the empty terraces and suppose we've all nipped out for a cheeky Pinot Noir before the going gets tough either.

Not that I leave early anyway but that's a different conversation.

 

[ardiles]

This!

65% for Poch IN is mental!

Since we’re at it, could we also have a similar poll for Eriksen?

 

[Fidget]

62% for him staying is mental. What sort of miracle are people waiting for?

 

[bubble07]

Shit performance and result on Tuesday and a Liverool mauling then I'm changing to Poch out

 

[southlondonyiddo]

I don’t think the question should necessarily be Poch in or out but more

How is Poch still Tottenham manager?

We were very lucky not to lose to the bottom side at home yesterday, we lost to Newcastle at home and we got stuffed at Brighton

All those teams will finish bottom half so where the hell does that leave us finishing!!!!

Only an idiot could see an upturn in results and form with this group of players and manager

They have obviously stopped playing for him and Poch currently does not have enough quality players at his disposal that will play for him

SO

A. Will Levy be 'brave' and leave Poch in charge until the end of the season when we finish about 13th. By which time we’ve bought in 2 or 3 in January plus bring in 3 or 4 in the Summer and get rid of 6-7 with a net spend of about 150m

OR

B. Will he leave this mess to fester for even longer hoping Man U, Madrid or someone else come in for Poch and pay us compensation on the remainder of his contract

OR

C. Will he sack Poch quite soon and appoint an expensive World Class replacement who will demand some expensive signings

OR

D. Will he sack Poch and replace him with another young hungry and much cheaper option who will be happy to work with what he's pretty much got atm

OR

E. Wait until the situation has got so bad that the supporters are so bored, upset and frustrated and all Pochs great work is forgotten and we are calling for his head, so the Chairman has to sack him and is seen as being 'one of us' and keeps 90% of supporters sweet and once again walks off into the sunset and it’s another uncertain period of transition

F. combinations of the above

OR

G. None of the above I’m talking absolute complete and utter bollox on every level

 

[Real_madyidd]

I will give him a few weeks of Sess and lo Celso. Fail to play well and it's done.