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Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

Should Poch stay or go?

  • Stay

    Votes: 657 55.3%
  • Go

    Votes: 532 44.7%

  • Total voters
    1,189

mightyspur

Now with lovely smooth balls
Aug 21, 2014
9,760
27,014
I'm still in the stay camp because I'm not a fan of sacking managers when you hit bad patches, although this bad patch seems to be going on for an uncomfortable length of time and unless Poch and his team start making positive changes to games I'll reluctantly say his time is up.

It's incredibly annoying though how we were constantly giving the ball away and making stupid individual errors again

Was disappointed with the team selection yesterday, considering how well we performed (albeit against poor opposition) in the CL, to then make wholesale changes and effectively revert back to the same that saw us lose to Brighton and draw with Watford. My biggest complaint was actually Rose coming in as I thought Davis performed well and Rose's form has dropped off a cliff.

We were absolutely battered yesterday and if it wasn't got Gazza's heroics it could have been another embarrassing scoreline, although our shape looked good and we were definitely frustrating them for long periods.

It is frustrating though as soon as we had Le Celso on the pitch we started moving it about and actually had some possession and were attacking with intent instead of just soaking up pressure and dropping deeper and deeper, but 6 mins ain't enough time realistically and I was annoyed that Poch didn't switch it up as soon as they scored, because it felt the 2nd was inevitable.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,816
I'm still in the stay camp because I'm not a fan of sacking managers when you hit bad patches, although this bad patch seems to be going on for an uncomfortable length of time and unless Poch and his team start making positive changes to games I'll reluctantly say his time is up.

It's incredibly annoying though how we were constantly giving the ball away and making stupid individual errors again

Was disappointed with the team selection yesterday, considering how well we performed (albeit against poor opposition) in the CL, to then make wholesale changes and effectively revert back to the same that saw us lose to Brighton and draw with Watford. My biggest complaint was actually Rose coming in as I thought Davis performed well and Rose's form has dropped off a cliff.

We were absolutely battered yesterday and if it wasn't got Gazza's heroics it could have been another embarrassing scoreline, although our shape looked good and we were definitely frustrating them for long periods.

It is frustrating though as soon as we had Le Celso on the pitch we started moving it about and actually had some possession and were attacking with intent instead of just soaking up pressure and dropping deeper and deeper, but 6 mins ain't enough time realistically and I was annoyed that Poch didn't switch it up as soon as they scored, because it felt the 2nd was inevitable.
Agree with pretty much all of this... although if nothing changes against Everton, its going to be untenable.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
I can't shake the feeling that what we're seeing is the final season of Poch. I compared it to Mourinho's last months at first Chelsea and then United a few days ago, but the comparison that really resonates is Klopp at Dortmund.

Klopp's project there had simply run its course, the players were no longer fit enough to handle the rigourous training regime because they'd done it for so long it just knackered them. The squad was ravaged with injuries and hadn't ideally replaced the players who had left (this is the big departure from Poch's story), and by the time he announced he was leaving in April it came as no surprise to anyone, he left after a poor season but the memories of the good times far outweigh the terrible final season.

I really want Poch to turn it around, I really want him to oversee the generational change after Toby, Jan, Rose, Eriksen, maybe Lloris all leave. But if the players who are still in or younger than their theoretical prime aren't responding to his methods any more (Son, Kane, Dele, Dier), it's probably time to go. But I'm convinced he won't be sacked unless we're in the relegation zone, and if he goes this summer he will go out on his own terms.


Yeah I think this is key. If the root cause of all the issues is the handful of "wantaways" then the problem largely takes care of itself at the end of the season and I think Poch has earned to right to get the chance to build a new team. But as you say, if even the younger players who are still going to be around next season are no longer responding to him then it leaves us with little choice but to pursue other options.

Obviously we really don't know which way round it is but I sincerely hope the former is the case.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
So, today, the morning after the Liverpool game, there has been a slight shift:

With 995 votes cast, 59.7% want Poch to continue, with 40.3% wanting him to vacate his post. That’s a 19.4% margin, down from around 24% a couple of weeks ago.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
There is no manager that doesn’t have to take into account the dressing room politics and personalities involved, though. While it’s easy to sit online and select teams, the reality is that when dealing with actual people the whole thing is more complicated.
Yes , agree . Its a question of balancing the various reasons for playing a player . ..and I think he has over weighted the political side rather than the actual performances on the field .
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
There was a great post from Scat that I winnered but had to rush off .

The footballing fashions/systems are in a constant state of flux . Poch arrived with a central theme of high intensity training and match performance . We had more energy , we steamrollered teams sometimes . Great .

BUT that was a great solution then . Of course other teams were fascinated by this...and no surprise they (especially in the Prem)
adapted their own versions of the high energy and pressing game . Surely nobody here still believes we are fitter and more energetic than Prem oppo nowadays ?

Toby said 'Without our energy we are just ordinary' ....but now our energy levels are clearly being matched on the field ergo we are more ordinary than before and in the lower half of the Prem .

I see people here commenting 'Oh so and so won't be able to play for months til he gets to Poch levels of fitness'etc etc This is outdated thinking imo .Numerous other teams have this level of fitness now . Anyone notice Brighton flagging last 20 mins of their match vs us ?

Of course not , time to stop this fantasy that we have the edge fitness wise on other Prem teams .
 

Jenko

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
5,290
4,157
We'll still be left wondering after the Everton games line-up is announced because Rose is banned. If he drops Eriksson we will still all be expecting him recalled for the following game. If they both play and we lose/draw to Staff Utd there won't be any saving him in my opinion. I hate saying that but that's where it is :(

I've voted stay, but glad it's changeable.
 

Zoltar60

Member
Sep 26, 2005
63
96
Imagine Eriksson starting will be more down to whether Lamela is fit.

The real question isn't whether poch should stay or go, more to do with whether he wants to be here anymore. Some cynics would argue he wants to be sacked.
 

gaffers

Active Member
Nov 23, 2014
171
152
There was a great post from Scat that I winnered but had to rush off .

The footballing fashions/systems are in a constant state of flux . Poch arrived with a central theme of high intensity training and match performance . We had more energy , we steamrollered teams sometimes . Great .

BUT that was a great solution then . Of course other teams were fascinated by this...and no surprise they (especially in the Prem)
adapted their own versions of the high energy and pressing game . Surely nobody here still believes we are fitter and more energetic than Prem oppo nowadays ?

Toby said 'Without our energy we are just ordinary' ....but now our energy levels are clearly being matched on the field ergo we are more ordinary than before and in the lower half of the Prem .

I see people here commenting 'Oh so and so won't be able to play for months til he gets to Poch levels of fitness'etc etc This is outdated thinking imo .Numerous other teams have this level of fitness now . Anyone notice Brighton flagging last 20 mins of their match vs us ?

Of course not , time to stop this fantasy that we have the edge fitness wise on other Prem teams .

None of the Poch fantasy claims have survived this project is over
 

Erm33

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2019
3,960
7,604
Please just go. I want to be able to enjoy watching us again and right now it's just waiting for the inevitable disappointment
 

rabbikeane

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2005
6,884
12,675
This isn't an election, 40% is a vast amount and we know it would be more with a poll reset
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,941
28,069
I'm surprised that it hasn't swung more if I'm honest. This game was so predictable and the worrying thing for me is that I'm not seeing any improvements. Bar Red Star aside things are actually getting worse.

Relegation although highly unlikely is entirely possible and it would be arrogant to think otherwise.

0 wins from 12 away games

6 wins from 23 league games

23 defeats from 45 games

10 points from the top 4 and 4 points from relegation.

Relegation form over a long period.

He's a wonderful manager but things come to an end.
 

G Ron

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,996
7,526
For a guy who talks a lot about showing courage he certainly makes very cowardly decisions regarding team selection and game management.
Cannot agree enough with this. Simply speaking the guy isn’t ruthless enough as he’s proven throughout his tenure (Son at left back in the FA Cup Semi, Moura dropped for the CL final). He doesn’t like upsetting his favourites / big names and that is a real problem in the big games.

He also mentions in his book that he doesn’t like making subs too early as he’d rather players play themselves into games rather than negatively impact Player confidence by dragging them (something along those lines anyway).

We really need a proven winner next
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
I'm surprised that it hasn't swung more if I'm honest. This game was so predictable and the worrying thing for me is that I'm not seeing any improvements. Bar Red Star aside things are actually getting worse.

Relegation although highly unlikely is entirely possible and it would be arrogant to think otherwise.

0 wins from 12 away games

6 wins from 23 league games

23 defeats from 45 games

10 points from the top 4 and 4 points from relegation.

Relegation form over a long period.

He's a wonderful manager but things come to an end.

I still think there are a lot of fans that think this is recoverable and/or that there isn't anyone that can come in and do better, though how they can come to these assumptions is a bit bewildering if I'm honest.

When you lay the bare facts out as you have, then it is plain to see that things are a lot worse than just the performances on the pitch and it leaves me wondering just what Poch has to do to get the sack. Right now, anything that happens from here on in rests solely on the shoulders of Levy. He has the power to end it all and get a new man in, but his reluctance will further damage our chances of salvaging anything from this season and even though as you say unlikely, there is a realistic chance that we could be in the fight of our lives to avoid relegation. Nothing can be ruled out at this stage.
 
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