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Player Watch Player Watch: Wilson Odobert

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
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22,780
Honestly some of those bargain bin players we signed early on in Poch’s tenure.......Fazio.
Bloody hell. Had to check as my head said that he played for us about 5 years before that and that he was also a bit of a stalwart - albeit limited. He was indeed signed in 2014 and only ever made 20 apps for us over three years!
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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First choice is Son though, not Werner.
But that is the problem with Werner. He's just backup but so are the youngsters. The benefit of the youngsters is they're still getting better though so could replace Son or Johnson. We really needed a proper first choice to either replace Son or Johnson depending on form. As soon as one is out we have Werner who isn't good enough to start and Moore or Odobert who are still very raw. Ideally Son would be the Werner more experienced option and we have another early to mid 20s player in place of Werner.
 

mattspur1

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2005
1,405
1,712
We have made some questionable signings when we needed 'hit the ground running first team players'.

Odobert - Very raw at this point
Johnson - Bang average
Gray - Average at this point and he's played right back too often which he has struggled everytime
Bergvall - Obvious quality however, taking time to adapt to this standard
Werner - Not good enough and hasn't been for about 5 years
Solomon - Purely a financial decision
Solanke - Looks the part
Veliz - Not good enough atm
Spence - Hasn't featured enough

I get a number of these are for the future but they haven't particularly strengthened our starting 11 now with the exception of Solanke.
 
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fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
23,092
58,086
Could do with him back but not expecting him to be much of a gamechanger but he needs minutes to start improving as he's still very young and raw.
 

Dazzazzad

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,549
5,716
We have made some questionable signings when we needed 'hit the ground running first team players'.

Odobert - Very raw at this point
Johnson - Bang average
Gray - Average at this point and he's played right back too often which he has struggled everytime
Bergvall - Obvious quality however, taking time to adapt to this standard
Werner - Not good enough and hasn't been for about 5 years
Solomon - Purely a financial decision
Solanke - Looks the part
Veliz - Not good enough atm
Spence - Hasn't featured enough

I get a number of these are for the future but they haven't particularly strengthened our starting 11 now with the exception of Solanke.
Who says we needed hit the ground first team players? We changed from a win now approach to more of a development philosophy. Signing young players who can CONTRIBUTE now but who will only be world beaters (if they fulfill their potential) in a few years.

Look at our signings and how many youth players are getting a look in now. It's about finding and nurturing the best young talent. If you would prefer a win now philosophy that's fine, but let's not pretend the club's strategy isn't clear.
 

mattspur1

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2005
1,405
1,712
Who says we needed hit the ground first team players? We changed from a win now approach to more of a development philosophy. Signing young players who can CONTRIBUTE now but who will only be world beaters (if they fulfill their potential) in a few years.

Look at our signings and how many youth players are getting a look in now. It's about finding and nurturing the best young talent. If you would prefer a win now philosophy that's fine, but let's not pretend the club's strategy isn't clear.
The strategy is clear is it? Solanke, although is quality, is 27.
 

Dazzazzad

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,549
5,716
The strategy is clear is it? Solanke, although is quality, is 27.
The strategy is not we will never sign anyone proven. We also tried hard for Neto. But the dial has been turned towards the future as the primary emphasis.

If gray goes on to be top class nobody is going to complain that he was average in his first season as an 18 year old. If he doesn't fulfil his potential then sure, but we're years away from knowing if it was a great, good or crap signing.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
45,567
90,368
Who says we needed hit the ground first team players? We changed from a win now approach to more of a development philosophy. Signing young players who can CONTRIBUTE now but who will only be world beaters (if they fulfill their potential) in a few years.

Look at our signings and how many youth players are getting a look in now. It's about finding and nurturing the best young talent. If you would prefer a win now philosophy that's fine, but let's not pretend the club's strategy isn't clear.
To be fair we do have a win now manager. It's another case of the transfer policy not matching the manager.
 

mattspur1

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2005
1,405
1,712
The strategy is not we will never sign anyone proven. We also tried hard for Neto. But the dial has been turned towards the future as the primary emphasis.

If gray goes on to be top class nobody is going to complain that he was average in his first season as an 18 year old. If he doesn't fulfil his potential then sure, but we're years away from knowing if it was a great, good or crap signing.
I get the signing of young players, I get it. But there is no guarantee they are going to develop into first team players is there? The club, fans & players need to win games now or Ange will be gone and possibly a good amount of the current squad won't match the next poor bastard that is appointed's tactics!
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,526
12,114
We have made some questionable signings when we needed 'hit the ground running first team players'.

Odobert - Very raw at this point
Johnson - Bang average
Gray - Average at this point and he's played right back too often which he has struggled everytime
Bergvall - Obvious quality however, taking time to adapt to this standard
Werner - Not good enough and hasn't been for about 5 years
Solomon - Purely a financial decision
Solanke - Looks the part
Veliz - Not good enough atm
Spence - Hasn't featured enough

I get a number of these are for the future but they haven't particularly strengthened our starting 11 now with the exception of Solanke.
TBH 'hit the ground running first team players' are needed in every summer window to maintain the team's competitiveness, but I have never seen us sign one. There are only two types of players we will sign - 1. youngsters with potential with high future sellable value or 2. bargain purchase. We were competitive in recent years because we were lucky to have Kane coming through our academy and Sonny became a world class player. Liverpool and Scum had their bad times but then their owners were ambitious enough to spend on star players and they become title contenders again. Levy would just sign inferior players with less money and hope them would become world class and bring him CL money to make profits. When things do not go well the manager would be sacrificed to cover his incompetence.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
20,956
60,038
I think he made absolute sense but the question is more about Werner since he's in his prime. If we signed a better first choice instead of Werner it would set us up perfect. Having Odobert, Moore and Yang as prospects for less than 35m is not bad strategy at all. That should be viewed as competition for the more senior players. We needed a better first choice in addition to the prospects we got.
Werner is a short term option to allow these younger players to develop as Son winds down. And as mentioned above Son is actually first choice on LW.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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Werner is a short term option to allow these younger players to develop as Son winds down. And as mentioned above Son is actually first choice on LW.
The point is we didn't need a short term option. We needed a first choice one. Not write off a season while we wait to see if youngsters come good which may or may not even happen. Son is past his best and Johnson hasn't shown consistency since he arrived.

there isn't a single manager would match Levy's transfer policy if he is ambitious enough
A young developing manager would work best. That what we had with Poch and it worked well. It only ended because we stopped signing players. It's the old school managers that need experienced players who don't suit Levy (Ange, Jose, Conte). All these managers want instant success and we're going the long route.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,905
53,418
TBH 'hit the ground running first team players' are needed in every summer window to maintain the team's competitiveness, but I have never seen us sign one. There are only two types of players we will sign - 1. youngsters with potential with high future sellable value or 2. bargain purchase. We were competitive in recent years because we were lucky to have Kane coming through our academy and Sonny became a world class player. Liverpool and Scum had their bad times but then their owners were ambitious enough to spend on star players and they become title contenders again. Levy would just sign inferior players with less money and hope them would become world class and bring him CL money to make profits. When things do not go well the manager would be sacrificed to cover his incompetence.

Apart from Rice, who was signed 4 years into rebuild, what 'stars' have the scum bought in recent times?
 
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mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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Apart from Rice, who was signed 4 years into rebuild, what 'stars' have the scum bought in the recent times?
More relevant I think is what have they won? 1 FA Cup early into the project. I'm not sure why arsenal are used as an example. They're essentially doing exactly what we did under Poch. Come close but ultimately fall short of the top prize. What fans are asking for is more than top 4 and so far we've never made it to that point in the Premier League era. We either go back to what worked under Poch and hope we have another top generation of players break through. That still fell short in the end. Or we actually sign some top players too this time which we've never tried.
 

YB123

YB123
Aug 27, 2006
6,433
22,868
Absolutely ridiculous. It is clearly evident we rushed him back and has made it worse. Probably the same with Richy but thats another story.

Our medcial department is an utter shambles, dont tell me otherwise.
 
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