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Player Watch: Timo Werner

Thenewcat

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
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13,304
There were some groans but to be fair after that a lot of fans in that area started clapping him and really encouraging him quite loudly. I know this as I was one of them.
I will never understand fans picking on an individual player unless it was something like a mason Greenwood situation and you are representing what’s acceptable for the club.

It’s both really unkind and totally counterproductive. The idiots booing Emerson were proved wrong as he became a valuable squad player and Werner has already proved on last year’s form he has value as a squad player. Keep cheering him - it would provide exactly the adrenaline boost he needs to counter act his low confidence
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
21,344
61,701
That's pretty much how I saw the loan. Sonny is still first choice in that position, and Moore/Odebert are just a little too young/raw to take the back up role for this season, so we loan a player who is happy to play #2, does have international experience, and by all accounts is good to have around and works hard. We don't have to worry about offloading him, because that's baked in - he's going back to his parent club whatever.
Forgot about Odobert as well. But yes he is just a short term rotation option whilst the others develop. He had to start recent games due to Odobert and Son's injuries, and finishing aside he wasn't bad in the majority of those wins we had prior to Brighton.

I think some just need to find something or someone to moan about and sadly it's Timo's time in the spotlight.
 

spurs mental

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2007
28,387
60,573
God I hope he scores or makes a couple of goals to shut a few people up, there absence in here through the sheer rage of him doing well will be glorious
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
19,648
39,693
He’s not very good imo but he’s here (and only for a little over half a year) so it is what it is. I think Moore is objectively better than him, forget about the age and lack of experience, I just think he offers more than Werner and will add more value but I can see the thinking in holding him back. Hopefully Son stays fit for the rest of the season, we get rid of Werner in the summer and Odobert and Moore both take on bigger roles next season.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
22,714
373,794
Quite a few people talking about terminating the loan in January. Is there anything to indicate that would even be an option? I don't recall anything mentioned about a termination clause, and I think those things are generally the exception rather than the norm? I'm sure Galatassary would have loved to terminate Ndombele's loan in January last season, for example.
Well you can still do it without a clause, but we'd still be liable for any loan fee, or wages agreed. It's also possible they could agree to him going elsewhere if the figures added up and it suited the player. If that happened the agreement could also be terminated.
 

SirHarryHotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
6,291
9,725
If Timo was let go in January without a new signing absolute certainty that most of the forward line will go down with injuries, he might as well stay until the end of the season. Wilson will be back soon so expect Timo's appearances to be limited.
 

Ghost Hardware

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
21,791
86,689
That's pretty much how I saw the loan. Sonny is still first choice in that position, and Moore/Odebert are just a little too young/raw to take the back up role for this season, so we loan a player who is happy to play #2, does have international experience, and by all accounts is good to have around and works hard. We don't have to worry about offloading him, because that's baked in - he's going back to his parent club whatever.
With Timo currently being completely off form I am just not really sure what we gain by playing him over Moore or Odebert. Obviously whilst Odebert and Son where injured we needed him as we have nobody else so him being picked made sense (although I still think Moore could have been given more minutes during that time). But going forward I don't know what we gain by picking him considering he will very likely be gone next summer, if not earlier, instead of giving his minutes to one of our younger WF who need minutes to develop and adapt. Also worth remembering we have Yang joining in Jan as well.

I complete understand the logic of playing a player who is off form in the hopes he will eventually click but when we have other options who have a long term future at the club then IMO they should be prioritised. If Werner was playing at a high level then that is different but whilst I, like most of us, like his character we have to remember we don't owe him anything. He is by an large a mercenary. The fact we did not choose to sign him outright makes it pretty clear that we have no intention of keeping him long term as you point out. I do even wonder if we had signed him maybe we might have seen more from him such is his seemingly fragile mentality. Even tho they are significantly younger and less experienced i'm not even sure given his current form anyone could say for certain that Moore or Odebert wouldn't contribute as much, if not more then Werner.

All that said I really do feel sorry for the lad. Whilst I thought it was a real mistake re-loaning him I still want him to do well here and every time he is on the pitch I hope he manages to get his goal. I certainly do not revel in his misfortune and I will not call him "shit" as he obviously isn't, he just has real issues with the mental side of the game that has effected him long before he joined Spurs. With the exception of his first spell at Leipzig he has always been horribly inconsistent. Even when he goes on a scoring run he will hit one speed bump and it will throw him for 6.

If there is a realistic WF target that we think will elevate our current options and is realistically gettable this winter then I would be trying to cancel Werner's loan. If not, which I think will likely be the case, then we need to keep him incase of injury but I would put him at the bottom of list and give the minutes we are currently giving him to Odebert, Moore and Yang. If he does manage to find form then that is another matter but for now I think the youth should be given their chance.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,954
22,988
With Timo currently being completely off form I am just not really sure what we gain by playing him over Moore or Odebert. Obviously whilst Odebert and Son where injured we needed him as we have nobody else so him being picked made sense (although I still think Moore could have been given more minutes during that time). But going forward I don't know what we gain by picking him considering he will very likely be gone next summer, if not earlier, instead of giving his minutes to one of our younger WF who need minutes to develop and adapt. Also worth remembering we have Yang joining in Jan as well.

I complete understand the logic of playing a player who is off form in the hopes he will eventually click but when we have other options who have a long term future at the club then IMO they should be prioritised. If Werner was playing at a high level then that is different but whilst I, like most of us, like his character we have to remember we don't owe him anything. He is by an large a mercenary. The fact we did not choose to sign him outright makes it pretty clear that we have no intention of keeping him long term as you point out. I do even wonder if we had signed him maybe we might have seen more from him such is his seemingly fragile mentality. Even tho they are significantly younger and less experienced i'm not even sure given his current form anyone could say for certain that Moore or Odebert wouldn't contribute as much, if not more then Werner.

All that said I really do feel sorry for the lad. Whilst I thought it was a real mistake re-loaning him I still want him to do well here and every time he is on the pitch I hope he manages to get his goal. I certainly do not revel in his misfortune and I will not call him "shit" as he obviously isn't, he just has real issues with the mental side of the game that has effected him long before he joined Spurs. With the exception of his first spell at Leipzig he has always been horribly inconsistent. Even when he goes on a scoring run he will hit one speed bump and it will throw him for 6.

If there is a realistic WF target that we think will elevate our current options and is realistically gettable this winter then I would be trying to cancel Werner's loan. If not, which I think will likely be the case, then we need to keep him incase of injury but I would put him at the bottom of list and give the minutes we are currently giving him to Odebert, Moore and Yang. If he does manage to find form then that is another matter but for now I think the youth should be given their chance.
All fair points. It's my belief that the opportunity was there at the start of the season and we took the option to kind use Werner as a plug to stop LWF from becoming a problem position while we focused on other areas. One bad injury to Son and we would have been looking at a 17 year old, or playing Richy/Johnson out of position - or spending time trying to either sign or loan another player (Odobert was not yet signed). Werner was known to us, and obviously Ange was happy enough with him to have him around. As it happens, we lost Odobert early, Richy again to injury, Son to a mercifully short injury, and Moore is still very young to be entrusting with starts in the PL on a regular basis.

So on that basis, the Werner loan has done exactly what it intended. To have a player who has the right mentality to deal with understanding that we are basically using him. He knows we won't sign him permanently, and also that he's probably only here to cover injuries - which have actually happened, giving him more game time probably then even he imagined or hoped for.

And like you, I'm desperate to see him succeed - not just for us, but for himself.
 

jpascavitz

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
2,331
8,608
To me, I look at our recruitment and I am so optimistic. It seems that we're taking a very rational and wholistic approach from this last Summer vs. West Ham's approach of spraying at so many targets.

We kept most of our core from last season. Added some young talent while it seems we're telling young players there is a real opportunity here to show us what you have.

Werner will get flack all season but I personally am happy that he is hardworking, selfless, and a great character. He's what seems to be a good stop gap in the side and I still think Moore will get his minutes here and there throughout the season and Odobert will primarily be picked ahead of him as when the season started.

Yes, we can always want better/more quality across the squad but at least to me it seems that most of the club is actually on the same page IMO.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,498
3,770
Werner was known to us, and obviously Ange was happy enough with him to have him around.
That's the saving grace for me. It was done so early that Ange must have been happy with the player and the overall strategy. Had it been done late in the window I think it would have been a panic move.

Like you say, injuries did happen and Werner was needed to fill in. Personally I'm not a fan of Werner, but at least Ange has somebody filling in who knows the system, and that Ange can trust to do what he needs.

It's probably a bit harsh, but in my head I'm just thinking of Werner as protection for Moore. It's amazing to see Moore getting the minutes he is, but it's going to be important to manage his playing time with a view on long term development, and Werner can fill that role for now.
 

PCozzie

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
4,954
22,988
It's probably a bit harsh, but in my head I'm just thinking of Werner as protection for Moore.
That's actually quite a good way of putting it. Moore, when he does get some regular minutes, is going to have off-days, or niggles, and Werner can prevent problems from escalating. Moore won't be forced to start matches after poor games, and won't need to go in to the red zone for what his body can take at this level. Similarly, if that does happen, we don't need to overuse Son either. We play Werner, either from the start in Europe/cup, or off the bench and protect our important club assets.

It's just a kind of unusual season where our #1 in that position is starting the downward slope from his peak and we need to protect him, while our up-and-coming star is beginning his first season of adult football. We just needed a familiar player and an easy loan deal to bridge the gap. I maintain that it was a rational decision to make early in the transfer window.
 

McFlash

Without doubt the dumbest & most clueless member.
Oct 19, 2005
15,585
59,628
It's probably a bit harsh, but in my head I'm just thinking of Werner as protection for Moore.
Yep, I don't think that's harsh at all, I think that's exactly what he is.
He's here to buy us a season to see how Moore, Odobert and Yang progress and nothing more than that.

Hopefully by the end of this season, one or more of those three will have shown enough to step in more for Sonny over the following seasons as he winds down.
 
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13VanDerBale13

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
16,573
40,696
If Timo was let go in January without a new signing absolute certainty that most of the forward line will go down with injuries, he might as well stay until the end of the season. Wilson will be back soon so expect Timo's appearances to be limited.

Yang is his replacement
 

Norvern Munkey

Delusions of Adequacy
Jan 4, 2011
692
2,791
I'd say werner is absolutely gun shy at moment and needs a ball to bounce off his bollock into the net, anything, to ease the building pressure.... . it was similar last season really.. he ain't son and Moore, odobert etc will surpass him at some point. He is useful as a body to save sons legs late in games and if he can get a goal, any goal he could be more than just useful. I can't stand the hate for the guy, he is trying (very trying sometimes ill admit) but I'd love him to explode on thursday and ease the pithy remarks (which must be weighing heavily on him)
 

FloridaSpur

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2021
1,673
4,521
If Timo was let go in January without a new signing absolute certainty that most of the forward line will go down with injuries, he might as well stay until the end of the season. Wilson will be back soon so expect Timo's appearances to be limited.

Richy, Solanke, Odobert and Son have all been out injured at some point, Richy before the season even started.

Most in here don't see that, and the fact that we are in four competitions.

Werner will be here and play for the rest of the season, starting some and off the bench as well.

Obvious to all but a few that don't understand why Ange took the loan option.
 

davros

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2005
2,895
595
Doubtful that Yang will be ready to step straight into PL football ,what level is the S Korean league be surprised if it is even up to Championship level.
Yes, K League 1 is not at the level of the Championship. Yang may adapt immediately to the PL, but I assume it'll take a while to integrate him into the team.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,409
50,013
I'd say werner is absolutely gun shy at moment and needs a ball to bounce off his bollock into the net, anything, to ease the building pressure.... . it was similar last season really.. he ain't son and Moore, odobert etc will surpass him at some point. He is useful as a body to save sons legs late in games and if he can get a goal, any goal he could be more than just useful. I can't stand the hate for the guy, he is trying (very trying sometimes ill admit) but I'd love him to explode on thursday and ease the pithy remarks (which must be weighing heavily on him)
I’d say he was a useful body last season, but currently he’s where footballing passing moves go to die. He actively hurts our play by constantly misplacing the pass, choosing wrong options, or fluffing a finish.

I get why Ange is desperate to try and get him through this, cos his pace and directness could be so useful at the business end of the season, but his yips look terminal to me.
 
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