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Player Watch Player Watch: Timo Werner

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
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49,685
If we get a striker or 2 - the LW does not need to be a primary goal threat - its more of a supporting position - getting balls into the box, and occasionally getting onto balls to the far post.

Son - Striker - Johnson

Then having a player like Werner to come in late to games, means we can play 90 minutes at a high pace.

Still need a striker to play with Richarlison, or 2, if we sell Richarlison. And Ange has to decide how he wants to use Kulusevski - either in rotation with Johnson, or Maddison - and then we need a player in the other position - RW/AM
I disagree matey as against these low block 4-4-2’s we can’t as easily get round the sides and get our crosses in as there is far less space, that is where you need a Doku, Mane, Sane, Bale, Robben, Hazard type winger or 2 can cut inside and score and/or beat their full back easily and consistently.

Werner can go down the line and hit a half decent ball with his wrong foot but if he cuts inside he mostly fluffs his lines, if we want to aim big then Werner is a fine bench impact option in big games or starting option against lesser opposition but we need a lot more quality than this overall.

That being said as another loan and squad option it’s a great piece of business imo.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,503
35,992
And I understand that it's a yoof comp etc but Moore really does look the business these last few games with Ingerlund. Hope to see him as an option out left next season. Some sub appearances in Europe and the cups, training with the first team at the least etc.

So this is a fine compromise. We're still only just heading into the second season of a rebuild that should have happened 6-7 years ago lets not forget.
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
2,038
3,326
No brainer whilst we try and get our squad to a more competitive place.
I think the second part of that is bang on. And doing that the most difficult. A lot of work for the club to do this summer and I don't mean signing 5-7 players. Identifying and signing the right few players and then selling the members of the squad who donzmt fit where we are going ( that, to be untrained eye, appears to be the bigger challenge )
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,373
21,720
Saka is basically in the same percentile as Werner for successful take-ons - would he not be good enough for us either?

It’s not just the take on though although I think eye test wise Saka is more dangerous anyway, it’s what they can do in possession with their technical ability. Saka has superb close control which allows him to quickly play incisive 1-2s and combo passes in very tight areas. He has excellent movement off the ball. He can retain possession under pressure, he can take the ball to feet much better and he’s obviously much more of a goal threat. He can also vary the speed of attacks and draw defenders on to him with his threat. His movement on the ball is a lot more fluid than Werner who is very much another straight line runner.

If we had Saka on the right, it would alleviate some of the issues we have on the left playing Son or Werner, especially if we also had a good technical striker too.
 

purplemonkey

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
158
835
This is the perfect outcome. I said back in March that we should try another loan. Reading it back again I still hold firm on the view that we’ll outgrow him very quickly and we shouldn’t commit to a perm deal (unless of course he delivers spectacularly), but he is a great player to have for a congested EL campaign.

TBH the fact that we are in a position to get a free run on another loan deal weighted heavily in our favour, even after a relatively productive spell here, just demonstrates how poorly perceived he is and how small the market is for him given his limitations, his reputation, his age, the financials and all the risks entailed in signing him permanently.

I quite like Timo and he would probably be a perfect option for another year but I have doubts about his utility beyond that. The fee is one thing, the wages are another. Will we be able to offload a 30 year old on say 120-150k a week? He’s proved to be a good fit for Ange, but he is an anachronistic player with a limited skillset, fragile confidence and a chequered reputation. If we have ambitions to compete for the league and the CL (which I think is realistic in 18-24 months) then we will inevitably outgrow him, he will fall out of favour, his stock will plummet and we will find ourselves having to subsidise loan moves to Turkey or the US for the remainder of his contract.

In summary, he’s currently a valuable asset that would quickly become a liability. I’d be happier extending his loan even for a relative fortune at say £8/9m, rather than sign him cheaply for £15m and be stuck with a problem longer term. He’s in the same boat as Lukaku.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,973
36,223
The way Werner played since his move, I believe only Trossard made more impact from LW in PL than him. His stats & numbers are also better than Doku or Diaz.

With preseason & better options upfront, he should be able to push on
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,256
338,772
I fully agree Moore’s best position long term is as an inside forward or CAM.

But with the system we play and his skillset I wouldn’t be surprised if we develop him as a LW for now. He’s so young he’s got plenty of time.
Not being funny mate but I think you often project what you want as to what's best for the club and what the club want. I think it's why you get so upset over things like this as well. You seem convinced we want fast two way tricky dribblers in the Doku mould. I'm not convinced that matters to Ange, and he just wants the ball in certain area's and isn't fussed on the type of player that gets it there as long as they consistently do.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,942
131,151
Are you really comparing Werner to Saka. I mean Saka does roll around ok the floor but he’s near on world class, Werner really is not.
I don't care what percentile he's in. He's not a patch on Saka. Cannot be compared
Eh? You both are completely missing what I'm saying. I'm responding to the people in the thread who are saying that because of Werner's successful take-ons stats, we shouldn't sign him despite his other positive stats. I'm saying Saka has the same successful take-ons stats as Werner, and obviously he's amazing and way better than Werner, so we shouldn't base stuff on that one statistic.
 

jpascavitz

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
1,908
7,430
Not being funny mate but I think you often project what you want as to what's best for the club and what the club want. I think it's why you get so upset over things like this as well. You seem convinced we want fast two way tricky dribblers in the Doku mould. I'm not convinced that matters to Ange, and he just wants the ball in certain area's and isn't fussed on the type of player that gets it there as long as they consistently do.

This is how I see it. It's branded everywhere on social media, on here in certain threads, that we won't succeed without a winger like Doku or a silky specialist. While it can be handy to have, and MY opinion is to have one in the squad as something different, I don't think it's completely necessary. I DO think our team is targeting some of these players, Nusa springs to mind in Jan.

Ange has some similar beliefs to City's set up. High line, solid midfield that can recover the ball and get it to a wide player to get the ball into a high xG area for ST, other winger, CAM or CM to ghost in an finish inside the box. So while City did invest in Doku, I would argue that Pep doesn't see him as the end all be all as he was in and out of the side throughout the season.

I just don't think Ange cares that much about step overs, flicks and tricks, and just that the ball gets to the end point he wants and someone puts it in. Werner did do that for the most part. Yes he had a few woeful crosses and finishes, but it was also his first 6 months in a new system. I agree with others it's not the complete end of the world to get him in. There's far worse left side options than Son/Werner on the depth chart.
 

Guntz

Loves a good meme/gif
Aug 15, 2011
7,539
56,059
Saka is basically in the same percentile as Werner for successful take-ons - would he not be good enough for us either?

Another reason why data needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Saka is light years ahead of Werner as a winger.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,973
36,223
A quality no9 is needed in summer window, which Ally also alluded to. It would mean, Son & Werner on left side and Kulu & Johnson on right.

As long as club brings in a proper no9 ,then I am more than fine with his loan signing.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,373
21,720
Not being funny mate but I think you often project what you want as to what's best for the club and what the club want. I think it's why you get so upset over things like this as well. You seem convinced we want fast two way tricky dribblers in the Doku mould. I'm not convinced that matters to Ange, and he just wants the ball in certain area's and isn't fussed on the type of player that gets it there as long as they consistently do.

It’s not just fast and tricky dribblers, it’s players who are strong in possession and good on the ball. I mean basically every single top team in world football has these types of players in attack as I’ve said before.

Slightly different type of player but someone like Olise for example, who can beat people but overall just offers a far superior level of technical quality and connectivity in attack.

If we intend on trying to compete with the best sides long term without players of this type in attack then we will struggle for the reasons I’ve stated previously about not being able to retain possession in the final third and turn possession in to tangible chances.

I’m confident that our ceiling will be capped quite similar to where we are now if we intend on just relying on direct off the ball players like Son, Johnson and Werner. If we add the other profiles I’ve mentioned to that mix then our ceiling will raise significantly.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,256
338,772
A quality no9 is needed in summer window, which Ally also alluded to. It would mean, Son & Werner on left side and Kulu & Johnson on right.

As long as club brings in a proper no9 ,then I am more than fine with his loan signing.
The key to making it all work imo. Got so fed up at times last season of watching crosses flash across the 6 yard line with no one near them. We need someone who is going to gamble on that run and someone waiting for the cut back. Once we have worked those out we will start converting chances a plenty imo.
 
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