Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[longtimespur]

I think people need to look at the Transfers situation rather than just the player. It is certainly a risk to back him in that another bad season and Tanguy will be far less valuable and still be on 200k per week.

However.. if we do sell him will we be able to sign a player of the quality to improve on him or play at the level we expected from Ndombele. I believe the answer to this question is no right now with finances the way they are and us having europa league only.
I think we have to take the risk and try to get the best out of him, due to the Lack of a possible better alternative. I do think he’ll be a star somewhere Once settle so I’m happy with this but worry that damage is in repairable now.

Yes people make their mind up and just won't budge from their first impression.
That's just the way it seems nowadays.
Instant gratification in everything.
Well to me anyway, being an old man always been used to waiting for things and having patience.

 

[tiger666]

Realistically how are we going to get our £65M back? That's the problem. Barcelona are completely skint. I don't see an Italian team paying that kind of money. Which leaves us with keeping him and most likely an even worse situation, and further devalued asset next year.

Installments.

 

[jurgen]

I agree with your assessment of him (emboldened) but will liken him to Eriksen in so much that Eriksen never tackled but could run and TN can tackle but not run. Both have ability with the ball but neither give much when they don't have it.
I prefer TN for his tackling to Eriksen's attempt at that part of the game. With the ball they can both be match winners.
Just MHO of course.

Sorry but if you’re trying to compare Ndombele’s work rate positively to Eriksen’s based on their careers with us to date, then that’s a pretty huge and improbable reach

 

[Haddock]

If we disqualify the media rumours, what we got here is young hugely talented french player - who's never played outside of France before, who has just taken a huge step coming to London and playing in an entirely different league whilst settling in with a new team, a new language and a new manager. On top of that we've had two different manager during the same season and an historic pandemic.

It's just beyond me how so many can be prepared to through him under the bus after one season, especially this highly unorthodox season.

 

[Haddock]

Sorry but if you’re trying to compare Ndombele’s work rate positively to Eriksen’s based on their careers with us to date, then that’s a pretty huge and improbable reach

Agreed. Eriksens work rate has always been phenomenal. Consistently among those who ran the furthest every season in the whole league.

 

[SheffieldAndy]

If we disqualify the media rumours, what we got here is young hugely talented french player - who's never played outside of France before, who has just taken a huge step coming to London and playing in an entirely different league whilst settling in with a new team, a new language and a new manager. On top of that we've had two different manager during the same season and an historic pandemic.

It's just beyond me how so many can be prepared to through him under the bus after one season, especially this highly unorthodox season.

I’d say (or at least what I’d think it would be), that yes, he’s incredibly talented, that should be obvious to us all. The reason people would want to consider selling him is that he’s got the hard bit done (have the talent, cultivate it, master it), yet he’s had a season to get even close to fit enough to run even a short distance (the easy bit), and he’s not even got close. Perceptions are based on what we see, and what we’ve seen from him is that he’s nowhere near the level of fitness to play a full game, track a runner or do anything that falls outside the realm of his talent. It’s a frustration, because I think we all want him to be an amazing player for us, and if he doesn’t change his fitness, he never will be.
It may be perceived as him not trying, rightly or wrongly, but as things stand, he isn’t a player many feel they would be able to rely on over the course of a season.
It could be for any of the reasons that you’ve mentioned, it could be for any number of reasons, but his seeming lack of any progress may well lead many to believe that he won’t progress, and he’s not shown anything to make them doubt that perception. I really hope he does next season (if we do keep hold of him), as I’d love to see a fit and firing player here next season, but it has to be both.

 

[fb9]

He's only 23 aswell. He probably hasn't settled as quick as he or the club wanted but hopefully he can have a more positive impact next season. Far too early to write him off.

 

[TimNiceButDim]

I’m completely split on him.
I desperately want Tanguy to succeed with us and had such high hopes for him but there’s no doubt that he’s been a flop so far.
The circumstances haven’t helped and that’s really all I’m clinging on to because he hasn’t shown anywhere near the amount of effort required to succeed with us.
I’m certain that moving to another country, adapting to the league, learning the language, changing managers/styles of play, injuries and COVID are all huge factors in his situation but equally, it’s unacceptable to turn up totally unfit to your new 200k a week job and I think that’s the root cause of most of the problems. If you’re unfit, you pick up injuries, drop in/out the team, can’t put in 100% and don’t win over the fans. He has to take some blame for that. I don’t know about his teammates either, but I’d be pretty pissed off if the new lad, earning twice what I was, turned up on day 1 with a massive hangover and the wrong attitude.

What I find so frustrating (but also slightly comforting) is that he clearly can put the effort in, he wouldn’t have played 49 games for Lyon last year or be in the national team if that were the case. I just hope that he can find the effort/application/confidence/luck or whatever else he needs to get back to that point.

I really want to see what he can do in the team when fit & motivated and I hope Jose’ is the man to bring it out of him but I have a feeling the only reason he isn’t being sold this summer is because there’s no chance we’ll get back what we paid.

 

[Wakey]

If we disqualify the media rumours, what we got here is young hugely talented french player - who's never played outside of France before, who has just taken a huge step coming to London and playing in an entirely different league whilst settling in with a new team, a new language and a new manager. On top of that we've had two different manager during the same season and an historic pandemic.

It's just beyond me how so many can be prepared to through him under the bus after one season, especially this highly unorthodox season.

I agree with your first paragraph and think this is very fair. BUT he is our record signing and he did look like he didn't give a shit in some games in terms of his workrate. And that's really, really disappointing. He threw himself under the bus with those performances.

I really hopes he stays and comes good but if he had done already we would have finished top 4. That's what you hope from the big signings - that they come in, improve you or at least consolidate where you are, if you're near the top. We, as a team and he as a player have both regressed. But I do take your points. Fingers crossed for next season. If he does come good next season and we go to a 4-3-3, I can see us finishing 3rd.

 

[yankspurs]

I’m completely split on him.
I desperately want Tanguy to succeed with us and had such high hopes for him but there’s no doubt that he’s been a flop so far.
The circumstances haven’t helped and that’s really all I’m clinging on to because he hasn’t shown anywhere near the amount of effort required to succeed with us.
I’m certain that moving to another country, adapting to the league, learning the language, changing managers/styles of play, injuries and COVID are all huge factors in his situation but equally, it’s unacceptable to turn up totally unfit to your new 200k a week job and I think that’s the root cause of most of the problems. If you’re unfit, you pick up injuries, drop in/out the team, can’t put in 100% and don’t win over the fans. He has to take some blame for that. I don’t know about his teammates either, but I’d be pretty pissed off if the new lad, earning twice what I was, turned up on day 1 with a massive hangover and the wrong attitude.

What I find so frustrating (but also slightly comforting) is that he clearly can put the effort in, he wouldn’t have played 49 games for Lyon last year or be in the national team if that were the case. I just hope that he can find the effort/application/confidence/luck or whatever else he needs to get back to that point.

I really want to see what he can do in the team when fit & motivated and I hope Jose’ is the man to bring it out of him but I have a feeling the only reason he isn’t being sold this summer is because there’s no chance we’ll get back what we paid.

It’s been 1 season. An unprecedented season at that. In a brand new country with a manager change in the middle of the season. Hard to call anyone a flop this season under the circumstances.

Give Ndombele time. He will come good if Jose gives him the opportunity.

 

[sausage]

Let's arrange the situation a bit more tidily here.

He hasn't had a poor first season, he's had a poor mental application since the beginning. Mentality is 100% the key here, and I don't think any of the supportive statements actually address that. His motivation has been in question since the first week by Poch, pretty much, well before any disruption, and has been in question ever since.

 

[doobie]

It’s been 1 season. An unprecedented season at that. In a brand new country with a manager change in the middle of the season. Hard to call anyone a flop this season under the circumstances.

Give Ndombele time. He will come good if Jose gives him the opportunity.

He has to earn it though. He has the potential to be a top player in the league but obviously must convince the manager he deserves a shot.

 

[TimNiceButDim]

It’s been 1 season. An unprecedented season at that. In a brand new country with a manager change in the middle of the season. Hard to call anyone a flop this season under the circumstances.

Give Ndombele time. He will come good if Jose gives him the opportunity.

If you remove all the other circumstances and just look at the way he has performed and the effort he’s put in, I think it’s fair to say he’s been a massive disappointment. Flop might be harsh but he’s heading down that road right now and it’ll take a monumental effort to turn it around. I hope he can do it, I just don’t know if he will.

 

[Haddock]

I’d say (or at least what I’d think it would be), that yes, he’s incredibly talented, that should be obvious to us all. The reason people would want to consider selling him is that he’s got the hard bit done (have the talent, cultivate it, master it), yet he’s had a season to get even close to fit enough to run even a short distance (the easy bit), and he’s not even got close. Perceptions are based on what we see, and what we’ve seen from him is that he’s nowhere near the level of fitness to play a full game, track a runner or do anything that falls outside the realm of his talent. It’s a frustration, because I think we all want him to be an amazing player for us, and if he doesn’t change his fitness, he never will be.
It may be perceived as him not trying, rightly or wrongly, but as things stand, he isn’t a player many feel they would be able to rely on over the course of a season.
It could be for any of the reasons that you’ve mentioned, it could be for any number of reasons, but his seeming lack of any progress may well lead many to believe that he won’t progress, and he’s not shown anything to make them doubt that perception. I really hope he does next season (if we do keep hold of him), as I’d love to see a fit and firing player here next season, but it has to be both.

I too have been underwhelmed by Ndombele fitness. That's the obvious concern. But we've seen this countless of times: New player arrives and fails to deliver. The upside is that most of the time they improve. Some improve massively after their first season. Son is the obvious example. Sissoko is another.

We didn't buy the finished product in Ndombele. He turned 23 just 6 months ago. If he would have cost 20m instead of 65m we wouldn't have this discussion. The money is naturally of importance but it's also just a matter of perception. We bought him because his hugely talented and we gave him a 6 year contract because he's talented.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. It is a concern that Ndombele seems to lack focus, fitness levels etc. But the upside is that he's got plenty of time to develop that.

This reminds of Zlatan and how he described his first year in Holland and later in Italy. For every move he made he had to put more effort in to general fitness, diet, sleep and his overall lifestyle. When he first came to Holland he ate junk food and played video games all night. When he first came to Italy he was ordered a strict weight and stamina routine etc.

Now, I'm not saying Ndombele is up playing video games all night but it wouldn't be the first time a talented young player has to accommodate a new lifestyle after a taking a step up the football ladder.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

He's only 23 aswell. He probably hasn't settled as quick as he or the club wanted but hopefully he can have a more positive impact next season. Far too early to write him off.

Throw in a couple of niggly injuries and a management change and previously key players leaving or uhming and ahhing about new contracts (Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Rose...) plus adjusting to the pace of the PL and lockdown, and I don't find it too hard to believe he and other players might have struggled to settle - see Sessegnon and Gedson too.

 

[tiger666]

Throw in a couple of niggly injuries and a management change and previously key players leaving or uhming and ahhing about new contracts (Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Rose...) plus adjusting to the pace of the PL and lockdown, and I don't find it too hard to believe he and other players might have struggled to settle - see Sessegnon and Gedson too.

He's been here a year and has taken £10m in wages off us in that time. Is it asking too much for him to get in the gym 3 times a week and get in shape?

 

[SheffieldAndy]

I too have been underwhelmed by Ndombele fitness. That's the obvious concern. But we've seen this countless of times: New player arrives and fails to deliver. The upside is that most of the time they improve. Some improve massively after their first season. Son is the obvious example. Sissoko is another.

We didn't buy the finished product in Ndombele. He turned 23 just 6 months ago. If he would have cost 20m instead of 65m we wouldn't have this discussion. The money is naturally of importance but it's also just a matter of perception. We bought him because his hugely talented and we gave him a 6 year contract because he's talented.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. It is a concern that Ndombele seems to lack focus, fitness levels etc. But the upside is that he's got plenty of time to develop that.

This reminds of Zlatan and how he described his first year in Holland and later in Italy. For every move he made he had to put more effort in to general fitness, diet, sleep and his overall lifestyle. When he first came to Holland he ate junk food and played video games all night. When he first came to Italy he was ordered a strict weight and stamina routine etc.

Now, I'm not saying Ndombele is up playing video games all night but it wouldn't be the first time a talented young player has to accommodate a new lifestyle after a taking a step up the football ladder.

I can absolutely see where you’re coming from, but if you’ve moved to do a job (for whatever reason, transfer, promotion, new job etc.) there is a perception that you should be able to perform that job. If he’s taken a season to get to below the fitness level of a typical Sunday league player after a Saturday night out, it doesn’t bode particularly well that by the end of the six years he may possibly be in good shape.
The saving grace (apart from his talent), is that fitness should be the easiest thing to improve. The worrying part is that he’s not improved the easiest thing at all. Now this could be his fault, the club’s fault (not specifically building up his stamina in training), or both, but think we all agree that he has to be better in that department or he will be more of a hinderance than a help in the upcoming season, which would be a huge disappointment to everyone involved and invested.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

He's been here a year and has taken £10m in wages off us in that time. Is it asking too much for him to get in the gym 3 times a week and get in shape?

I haven't been at training unfortunately, so can't comment on what he is or isn't doing right. Hope he comes good either way.

 

[Rosco1984]

If we disqualify the media rumours, what we got here is young hugely talented french player - who's never played outside of France before, who has just taken a huge step coming to London and playing in an entirely different league whilst settling in with a new team, a new language and a new manager. On top of that we've had two different manager during the same season and an historic pandemic.

It's just beyond me how so many can be prepared to through him under the bus after one season, especially this highly unorthodox season.

Playing badly you can make excuses for not even trying to run with your man when the opposition are breaking you cant.

 

[kent brockman]

I too have been underwhelmed by Ndombele fitness. That's the obvious concern. But we've seen this countless of times: New player arrives and fails to deliver. The upside is that most of the time they improve. Some improve massively after their first season. Son is the obvious example. Sissoko is another.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. It is a concern that Ndombele seems to lack focus, fitness levels etc. But the upside is that he's got plenty of time to develop that.

Many players do struggle in their first PL season. But like you say, I have never seen a player with such embarrassing fitness levels like TND, and who seemingly cannot even be arsed to put the effort in. That aspect was at least never a concern with Sonny and Sissoko.

Having said that, I reckon that we would get no more than 30m for him if we were to sell this summer. So no way Levy would play ball for that money IMO. Hopefully TND will get his act together once he realizes that he will be here for at least another year.