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Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
They're a crap team with a couple of good attackers papering over the cracks. Their defence is woeful (and yet they decided to give them new contracts??).

They'll be erratic with their results until PEA and Lacazette leaves. Then they'll be solidly mid-table.

Their defence is not great
Our midfield is not great
 

Smokinhotspur

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
510
953
Would people take £45m for him? Doubt we would recoup all our money considering how little he's played and the current covid climate.

What we need to do is a Coutinho like deal ie 18 - 24 month loan with an option to buy. This way we get him off the books quickly and give him a chance to resurrect his career and drive up his value in a less intense league like the one he came from. There is a player in there for sure, just not one up to the rigours and demands of the PL and a manager like JM.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,494
There's a story from early in Jose's Chelsea days (first time around). The whole squad is at a party or social and Jose causes some trouble; he tells Terry that Lampard is bad mouthing him and Lampard that Terry is doing the same. So both players square up to each other and there's a massive scene, and Jose is basically laughing in the corner.

He wanted to see if they'd stick up for themselves; see if they've got any fight in them.

It's a tactic he's used throughout his career. It's not really bullying as such, it's a test to see who will respond positively under pressure and who will crumble.

If NDombele decides to say 'Screw you Jose, this is what I can do', then we'll be seeing more of him.

Is this true? Was it in a autobiography or something?. If he is playing some similar mind games on Ndombele then I think that’s not the best motivator for him and these macho mind game tactics are surely a bit outdated now. What may work well for Lampard and Terry 10-15 years ago (though I still don’t get it Lampard and Terry are the types that are always going to stand up for themselves) probably won’t work for Ndombele today. I dunno, just a bit weird isn’t it.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832

In Sacramento’s system, it is easy to see a player with Ndombélé’s unique skillset as a luxury. He’s not a number ten, he’s not an outright eight and he cannot play as a lone six. He does not possess the energy of Sacramento’s former midfield destroyer, Xeka, nor would he be utilized effectively in that position. And while his passing range and ability to maintain possession is exemplary, it’s less functional in a strictly counterattacking system where his defensive frailties are exposed.

Sacramento’s Lille scored the third most goals in Ligue 1, but were eighth in shots, sixth in attacking third touches, eighth in overall possession, near the bottom of the league in attacking third pressures and were below mid-table in PPDA. In short, his system was not one of a high-pressing, high-possession side.
 

Nocando

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2012
2,945
4,385
Is this true? Was it in a autobiography or something?. If he is playing some similar mind games on Ndombele then I think that’s not the best motivator for him and these macho mind game tactics are surely a bit outdated now. What may work well for Lampard and Terry 10-15 years ago (though I still don’t get it Lampard and Terry are the types that are always going to stand up for themselves) probably won’t work for Ndombele today. I dunno, just a bit weird isn’t it.

This should probably be in the mourinho thread but is relevant to the conversations about tn. Probably explains why it works with some and not others. Thats precisely what he is doing.

 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
"Mourinho can one day tell you that you were the worst, you prove him wrong the next day and then he’ll say you’re the best in front of the team."

Cesc Fabregas
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,335
77,592
With Dragons latest about possible loans I wonder if we might see a loan swap with Barca. Ndombele for Coutinho. Just a thought. Anyway he was never going to play in a cental 2 yesterday. It was promising to see Jose use Skipp which shows he is prepared to use the right player for the right situation.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
With Dragons latest about possible loans I wonder if we might see a loan swap with Barca. Ndombele for Coutinho. Just a thought. Anyway he was never going to play in a cental 2 yesterday. It was promising to see Jose use Skipp which shows he is prepared to use the right player for the right situation.

Coutinho can't play in 442 either .... Unless you play him as son or kane's place
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,335
77,592
Coutinho can't play in 442 either .... Unless you play him as son or kane's place
I'm not sure 442 is going to be the system going forward. I think Jose will play a few formations. Coutinho can play infield forward or as a 10. He gives us more options than Ndombele.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
I'm not sure 442 is going to be the system going forward. I think Jose will play a few formations. Coutinho can play infield forward or as a 10. He gives us more options than Ndombele.

The way sacramento played at lille, it was actually 442 counter attacking system ... Yesterday was almost same to that ..
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2013
6,808
11,492
I'm not sure 442 is going to be the system going forward. I think Jose will play a few formations. Coutinho can play infield forward or as a 10. He gives us more options than Ndombele.
Yeah, can't see us signing 2 backup strikers/forwards so I doubt we go 442. Mourinho always prefered 4231 and I think we will play it when he fixes the balance issue with transfers in summer.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
Basically if Barca do want him and he'd get games, then great. Let's get a decent player in a loan swap for a problem position.

Ideally a 2 year loan to see out Jose and then gives the new manager the Pogba option.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,380
17,039
The way sacramento played at lille, it was actually 442 counter attacking system ... Yesterday was almost same to that ..

because my love and interest in football has almost completely gone I don’t really follow things as closely as I once did. Was Sacramento the manager at Lille? I thought he was just a coach?
 

THFC_SWE

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,233
3,914
He's a very talented player, but I feel like his mentality is blocking all that potential.

He got some fitness problems and sometimes when he plays, he looks uninterested and lazy. And if that's the case, Mourinho is right about not playing him. Ndombele can toughen and show Mourinho that he's wrong about him, or he can sulk and leave. If he choose the latter, he will never live up to his potential.

If he worked his socks off like Lo Celso he would start every game. I think Ndombele has more potential than Lo Celso, but the difference is the mindset.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
There's a story from early in Jose's Chelsea days (first time around). The whole squad is at a party or social and Jose causes some trouble; he tells Terry that Lampard is bad mouthing him and Lampard that Terry is doing the same. So both players square up to each other and there's a massive scene, and Jose is basically laughing in the corner.

He wanted to see if they'd stick up for themselves; see if they've got any fight in them.

It's a tactic he's used throughout his career. It's not really bullying as such, it's a test to see who will respond positively under pressure and who will crumble.

If NDombele decides to say 'Screw you Jose, this is what I can do', then we'll be seeing more of him.
This kind of thing doesn’t work on this generation of players. They’re different to millennials. They’re more sensitive, more connected, less macho. You can see through the pandemic and BLM response that they are capable of showing strength in different ways.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
This kind of thing doesn’t work on this generation of players. They’re different to millennials. They’re more sensitive, more connected, less macho. You can see through the pandemic and BLM response that they are capable of showing strength in different ways.
All players are different, just because a group of players are in the 18-23 age bracket doesn't mean they will all have the same mentalities. Look at previous comments from his early career coaches etc. They will give a better indication of who he is. Mourinho nailed it when he first came in. Ndombele hadn't been in a big club academy and didn't know what was required of him. This is all a massive learning curve from him and he will sink or swim.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
because my love and interest in football has almost completely gone I don’t really follow things as closely as I once did. Was Sacramento the manager at Lille? I thought he was just a coach?
Yeah he was assistant there too.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
The way sacramento played at lille, it was actually 442 counter attacking system ... Yesterday was almost same to that ..
The article that was put on this thread suggested that Sacramento is influencing an update to the Mourinho system. Got to be a positive I would say although clearly it’s going to take a while for it to be implemented.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
Most seem resigned to him going but I'm not sure I share that.

I think Jose just wants a DM in besides him to trust him. I dont think it'll be instant either, maybe he'll play him against the weaker teams first to get him focused to the role. But I do expect that by xmas he will have featured much more regularly.

He hinted towards wanting to use Lo Celso further forward when he said they decided to play him deeper - I imagine due to his tenacity. I think they had the intention of using Ndombele but realised that he's a liability defensively and at least Lo Celso will stay disciplined. But I certainly think Jose wants him in an Oscar/Lampard role
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,762
12,519
I'd play him as a withdrawn #10 that brings everything together in the games where we are looking to maintain possession and break teams down. The "wingers" in that situation will be closer to Kane and there will be the full backs getting further up too.
 
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