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Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

Inq

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2013
523
2,638
I like Skriniar, but what if after a year he hasn't adapted to the PL? We're stuck in the same position we are with Ndombele now. I think we (fans) write players off too quickly.

I want Ndombele to be given a bit more time, at least 6 more months until the next window. Hoping Jose and his team try to change his mentality and figure out how to slot him into the team somehow.

I’m all for giving players time. I was on the soldado train the whole time?

but this seems different. It feels like he doesn’t want to be here and neither does his advisors. At least with players like Soldado when he was here there was no question about the effort.

If he’s still come the end of the window I won’t be annoyed and I’ll support him.I’m just considering the quality of player we could get in exchange for him right now.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I like Skriniar, but what if after a year he hasn't adapted to the PL? We're stuck in the same position we are with Ndombele now. I think we (fans) write players off too quickly.

I want Ndombele to be given a bit more time, at least 6 more months until the next window. Hoping Jose and his team try to change his mentality and figure out how to slot him into the team somehow.

I'd be very happy if Ndombele stayed and kicked on but I do think it would be far easier for Skriniar to adapt than Ndombele. He's a low block defender who is very physical and I'm sure he'd take to the Jose system like a duck to water. Ndombele on the other hand has a longer journey to adapt to the rigours of the prem and especially under Jose where it doesn't matter how talented you are, you will have to pull your weight much like the other 9 outfielders on the pitch. You will not be given a pass just because you're brilliant with the ball at your feet. I'd love for Ndombele to adapt in a similar fashion to how the likes of Cole/Hazard did.
 

PrettyColors

Rosie47 Fan
Aug 13, 2011
3,866
10,074
Playing a game of probability here, and this is obviously an oversimplification.

Financially and footballing wise we have 3 outcomes on the player (TN for this example)

#1 take the Inter deal, get cash+Skriniar or whatever the deals are this summer - let’s say a 40m value, but we get it now.
+: 20m pounds, Milan Skriniar (good not great CB)
- N’Dombele, but also his 200k/ week wages

#2 stick it out with TN and hope he earns a place. Let’s say there’s 30% chance he becomes a valuable contributor this season, 15% chance he improves but has a season of inconsistency, and 55% chance he has a repeat of this year due to injury, work rate, something else.

+ no money, but 30% of outcomes, a top class CM, the other 70%, a player who is underperforming his wages
- in 70% of outcomes, a big reduction in perceived market value. his poor performance won’t just hurt on the pitch, it could also tank his value so that his transfer prospects dwindle to getting ~20m for him. Which brings us to

option 3: let’s say he plays season 2 with Jose. We now have the decision to
Keep (if he’s come good, no brainer. If he is showing positive signs but had an injury or something else, we would consider this before selling)
Sell (if he’s come good, probably not. If he hasn’t performed, could we even get 25m for him? I really doubt it, as his flaws will be out there to see)

Using percentages from last time: you can do this again, make another bet on him coming good, or cut your losses and sell for half the fee (20m) next summer of what we could get this summer.

opportunity cost: can we afford to wait 2 years for the top class creative midfielder this team so desperately needs? Do we truly want to risk this all on TN? All the other financial variables we have puts us in a lower risk appetite than most other clubs. I think if José has decided he is “lazy and out of shape”, and we can get the 40m in value up front, this sale is a lot more likely than we may think.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
So Jose thinks he's fat and lazy, and Levy won't take less than 42m for him (both from ITK info).

No club is going to pay that transfer fee and also match TN's 200k a week. And certainly not in the current economic environment.

As depressing and unpopular as this sounds, I think TN will finish out his contract at Spurs, having barely played anymore games for us.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
Playing a game of probability here, and this is obviously an oversimplification.

Financially and footballing wise we have 3 outcomes on the player (TN for this example)

#1 take the Inter deal, get cash+Skriniar or whatever the deals are this summer - let’s say a 40m value, but we get it now.
+: 20m pounds, Milan Skriniar (good not great CB)
- N’Dombele, but also his 200k/ week wages

#2 stick it out with TN and hope he earns a place. Let’s say there’s 30% chance he becomes a valuable contributor this season, 15% chance he improves but has a season of inconsistency, and 55% chance he has a repeat of this year due to injury, work rate, something else.

+ no money, but 30% of outcomes, a top class CM, the other 70%, a player who is underperforming his wages
- in 70% of outcomes, a big reduction in perceived market value. his poor performance won’t just hurt on the pitch, it could also tank his value so that his transfer prospects dwindle to getting ~20m for him. Which brings us to

option 3: let’s say he plays season 2 with Jose. We now have the decision to
Keep (if he’s come good, no brainer. If he is showing positive signs but had an injury or something else, we would consider this before selling)
Sell (if he’s come good, probably not. If he hasn’t performed, could we even get 25m for him? I really doubt it, as his flaws will be out there to see)

Using percentages from last time: you can do this again, make another bet on him coming good, or cut your losses and sell for half the fee (20m) next summer of what we could get this summer.

opportunity cost: can we afford to wait 2 years for the top class creative midfielder this team so desperately needs? Do we truly want to risk this all on TN? All the other financial variables we have puts us in a lower risk appetite than most other clubs. I think if José has decided he is “lazy and out of shape”, and we can get the 40m in value up front, this sale is a lot more likely than we may think.

Problem will be the selling fee. Unless Levy changes his MO, there's no way a reduced fee will be agreed with another club.

And no club will take a risk on TN on 200k and a big transfer fee.
 

cider spurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2016
9,399
23,731
Playing a game of probability here, and this is obviously an oversimplification.

Financially and footballing wise we have 3 outcomes on the player (TN for this example)

#1 take the Inter deal, get cash+Skriniar or whatever the deals are this summer - let’s say a 40m value, but we get it now.
+: 20m pounds, Milan Skriniar (good not great CB)
- N’Dombele, but also his 200k/ week wages

#2 stick it out with TN and hope he earns a place. Let’s say there’s 30% chance he becomes a valuable contributor this season, 15% chance he improves but has a season of inconsistency, and 55% chance he has a repeat of this year due to injury, work rate, something else.

+ no money, but 30% of outcomes, a top class CM, the other 70%, a player who is underperforming his wages
- in 70% of outcomes, a big reduction in perceived market value. his poor performance won’t just hurt on the pitch, it could also tank his value so that his transfer prospects dwindle to getting ~20m for him. Which brings us to

option 3: let’s say he plays season 2 with Jose. We now have the decision to
Keep (if he’s come good, no brainer. If he is showing positive signs but had an injury or something else, we would consider this before selling)
Sell (if he’s come good, probably not. If he hasn’t performed, could we even get 25m for him? I really doubt it, as his flaws will be out there to see)

Using percentages from last time: you can do this again, make another bet on him coming good, or cut your losses and sell for half the fee (20m) next summer of what we could get this summer.

opportunity cost: can we afford to wait 2 years for the top class creative midfielder this team so desperately needs? Do we truly want to risk this all on TN? All the other financial variables we have puts us in a lower risk appetite than most other clubs. I think if José has decided he is “lazy and out of shape”, and we can get the 40m in value up front, this sale is a lot more likely than we may think.

o_O 'kin hell.
 

SargeantMeatCurtains

Your least favourite poster
Jan 5, 2013
11,764
61,758
Skriniar would be a dreadful swap deal.

Fantastic player? Yes.
But do we need him? No.

Imagine Jose spending the best part of a year telling Toby, Sanchez, Dier and Tanganga that they are the men he trusts to protect the goal, only to go and bring in a £60m world established defender.

It would trash the respect and trust built between the players and staff.

Thats not to say we don’t need another CB but they need to be somebody who is well aware of their squad role and the challenge ahead of them of breaking into the first team. Someone like Kim Min Jae.

If this deal had come a year later, I’d have been more for it because I don’t see Toby staying beyond next summer and he would’ve been ideal.

Basically, protect Ndombele at all costs*.





*unless Juventus want him for Dybala.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
Skriniar would be a dreadful swap deal.

Fantastic player? Yes.
But do we need him? No.

Imagine Jose spending the best part of a year telling Toby, Sanchez, Dier and Tanganga that they are the men he trusts to protect the goal, only to go and bring in a £60m world established defender.

It would trash the respect and trust built between the players and staff.

Thats not to say we don’t need another CB but they need to be somebody who is well aware of their squad role and the challenge ahead of them of breaking into the first team. Someone like Kim Min Jae.

If this deal had come a year later, I’d have been more for it because I don’t see Toby staying beyond next summer and he would’ve been ideal.

Basically, protect Ndombele at all costs*.





*unless Juventus want him for Dybala.

Jose wanted Koulibaly or Varane pre lockdown, both of these would be starters and would have come with a hefty transfer fee. Our existing central defenders are not good enough for a sustained top 4 and cup challenge.

if you had to rank our defenders based on their current status you’re looking at:

B - Alderweireld, Sanchez
C - Dier
D - Tanganga

Skriniar is an A in terms of class, age and experience.
 

SargeantMeatCurtains

Your least favourite poster
Jan 5, 2013
11,764
61,758
Jose wanted Koulibaly or Varane pre lockdown, both of these would be starters and would have come with a hefty transfer fee. Our existing central defenders are not good enough for a sustained top 4 and cup challenge.

if you had to rank our defenders based on their current status you’re looking at:

B - Alderweireld, Sanchez
C - Dier
D - Tanganga

Skriniar is an A in terms of class, age and experience.
That’s all well and good but Skriniar also plays in the Italian league which is considerably slower and more tactical than the premier league where defenders need to be quick and sharp from the first whistle to the last. It’s a lot more forgiving to defenders. Smalling has gone there and is basically one of the best despite being pretty shite in England. Happy to be proven wrong and I’m sure there are a few recent success stories but I can’t think of very many defenders who have come from Serie A and been a roaring success?

I think it’s a big risk and, tbh, a stupid risk.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,675
3,091
I'm not going to pretend I've ever really watched Skriniar carefully, though I must have seen as I'v watched Inter a few times in recent years, so I can't say if I rate him or not. But even if he's really good, the trouble is, our defense has actually been pretty solid recently and if we reproduce our post covid form, next season, we should concede about 30 goals. Jose achieved 2 sub 30 goal conceded seasons with some very average players. He just gets teams very organised, compact, plays deeper than Poch and sticks a solid DM Mata/PEH in front of the back 4. So, is a top class CB really a priority?

I'm usually of the opinion, if a top class player becomes available, we should sign them, regardless of position, as we aren't a club that has the luxury of being able to pick and choose when to buy elite players. If a VDV deal comes along, you take it! But, the losses we've sustained due to Covid and the debt we have, means we probably can't do that at the moment. Skriniar is a great age and sooner or later we will need a quality CB, but we so urgently need to invest in other areas, that I think we might have to pass on this one.

I just don't see how we can justify spending big on a CB and not a creative midfielder. It's a tough one though, as our only CB that I really trust is Toby and he's 31. I just feel with a classy play maker we could challenge for honours and Toby has another season left him. So I think I'd rather keep NDombele, or if we do let him go, use the money (plus what we raise from Lamela if he goes) to buy a creative midfielder. But if we did end up with Skriniar, I'd be far from disappointed if he's the type of CB Jose wants.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
I'm not going to pretend I've ever really watched Skriniar carefully, though I must have seen as I'v watched Inter a few times in recent years, so I can't say if I rate him or not. But even if he's really good, the trouble is, our defense has actually been pretty solid recently and if we reproduce our post covid form, next season, we should concede about 30 goals. Jose achieved 2 sub 30 goal conceded seasons with some very average players. He just gets teams very organised, compact, plays deeper than Poch and sticks a solid DM Mata/PEH in front of the back 4. So, is a top class CB really a priority?

I'm usually of the opinion, if a top class player becomes available, we should sign them, regardless of position, as we aren't a club that has the luxury of being able to pick and choose when to buy elite players. If a VDV deal comes along, you take it! But, the losses we've sustained due to Covid and the debt we have, means we probably can't do that at the moment. Skriniar is a great age and sooner or later we will need a quality CB, but we so urgently need to invest in other areas, that I think we might have to pass on this one.

I just don't see how we can justify spending big on a CB and not a creative midfielder. It's a tough one though, as our only CB that I really trust is Toby and he's 31. I just feel with a classy play maker we could challenge for honours and Toby has another season left him. So I think I'd rather keep NDombele, or if we do let him go, use the money (plus what we raise from Lamela if he goes) to buy a creative midfielder. But if we did end up with Skriniar, I'd be far from disappointed if he's the type of CB Jose wants.

If we let go ndombele and buy another cb, i am pretty sure we will bring one creative playmaker even if it is for one season loan deal ..
 

Montalbano

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2018
3,917
18,686
I’m on the keep Ndombele train as I think that now with PEH as a proper defensive midfielder we will see Ndombele come back into the side and do what he does best — create. There is no reason for us to sacrifice our most creative midfielder for a 5th center back. However, if we can use Ndombele as a makeweight for another world class midfielder or attacking talent like Dybala, I’d understand.

It’s a fucking shame that only a year ago we had the financial capability to sign Ndombele and Dybala in the same window.. now we can’t buy without selling. What happened to the “£50m transfer budget on top of player sales” that was being reported throughout the restart?
 

rio bryan

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2006
547
350
Jose wanted Koulibaly or Varane pre lockdown, both of these would be starters and would have come with a hefty transfer fee. Our existing central defenders are not good enough for a sustained top 4 and cup challenge.

if you had to rank our defenders based on their current status you’re looking at:

B - Alderweireld, Sanchez
C - Dier
D - Tanganga

Skriniar is an A in terms of class, age and experience.
Incorrect, Dier is currently in front of Sanchez, Mourinho's selections say so.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Well, you could sell Ndombele, Lamela, Sissoko, Alli, Aurier, Foyth and probably have the money for Dybala and a couple of other targets. But, there's no way we are a.) Selling all those players and b.) Even if we wanted to, Levy would not budge on his (likely) exorbitant asking prices.

Dybala has had a dreadful dose of Covid (couldn't walk at one point) . It does enormous damage to lungs.. He must be rigorously checked before buying imo .
 

aussiespursguy

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,437
6,677
I have been so disappointed with Tanguy. If the boss is saying he is lazy and unfit now, after appearing very similar with Poch, I really don't hold out any hope of him turning this around. He seems a week character. If we can get 40m quid then I would take it and get someone in that Jose wants and believes he can work with.

I think the pace of the League is too much for him personally.
 

DannyNZ

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
1,740
4,726
Piss poor attitude is hard to turn around. It will be a major leap of faith expecting him to come back next season a changed man, trim and fit with a I actually care attitude. lucky It’s not my money because I’d be sucking up the loss and reinvesting in someone who can be trusted to contribute. At the same time a good hard look at the level of due diligence we do before signing a player is well overdue.
 
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