Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

[Strikeb4ck]

Hoijberg / Skipp / Sissoko / Dier as options for the destroyer type role.
Ndombele / GLC / Dele / Winks for the more creative / progression role.

Can play some combination of those players depending on the opposition.

Winks will need to add something in an attacking sense to his game to compete for a role here, which is probably what his development curve needs anyways.

 

[emiley heskey]

The Porto formation...

Porto formation means??

 

[punkisback]

This is what a lot of us have been calling for so it's music to our ears. Honestly, I think you can make a case for selling Dele at this point, but Jose does appear to love what he offers. Perhaps you do a 4-3-1-2 with Dele in the 1, playing off Kane and Son.

--------- Hojbjerg ---------
Ndombele --- Lo Celso ---
----------- Dele ------------
Kane ------------- Son ----

That has our strongest players in. But depends on FB really.

 

[The Legend of Tanguy]

We would absolutely need to upgrade our fullbacks in order to play a diamond, but we've been strongly linked with a number of fullbacks already so it seems that it is on the list of areas to address this summer.

Agree, Jose and the club definitely know there's a need. Now the issue is finding proper replacements that also can be acquired with our post-COVID budget. Need some hidden gems - seems like the exact type of player Luis Campos is famous for identifying... we need a director of football, dearly.

 

[The Legend of Tanguy]

Porto formation means??

The formation Jose deployed in his Porto days, when he became the "special one."

 

[emiley heskey]

The formation Jose deployed in his Porto days, when he became the "special one."

Didn't know about it

 

[austinfh]

Hoyjberg is a DM, we'd have to also get a creative CM replacement for Ndombele if its just not working out with him. And/Or we drop Lo celso back next to Hoyjberg and buy another AM.

yeah, just don't think we could get anyone close to Ndombele for less than what we bought him for last summer

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Porto formation means??

The formation that JM largely played at Porto. Apologies if that wasn't clear, it wasn't cryptic.

 

[AberdeenYid]

Looks like a certain formation that people complained a lot about that a certain manager might have wanted to try with the correct players...

Did think it looked a bit “diamondy“ when I saw it.

 

[ItsBoris]

Now this makes complete sense. There was no way in hell that Levy is would just cut ties with his biggest ever player investment without doing everything in his power to turn it around - that's just bad business. PEH with Tanguy and GLC in front of him would be an ideal midfield that can adapt to nearly any opposition - IMO, that is a midfield that could compete for a PL title (pending our defense is strengthened). My only concern is where we can play Dele because this sets up perfectly for a 4-3-3 with Kane, Son, Stevie up front. Diamond would be too narrow - at this point, our fullbacks are not good enough to provide the width required for that to work.

Actually that would be succumbing to two destructive psychological fallacies: sunk cost fallacy and the endowment effect.

Sunk cost fallacy: continuing an endeavor because of previously invested resources when you wouldn't pursue that same endeavor had your own resources not been previously invested.

Endowment effect: when you would make a decision not to sell an object you own for a certain amount, but also wouldn't choose to buy the same object (if you didn't own it) for that amount. For instance, I wouldn't sell my watch for $1,000. But if I had $1,000 and no watch, I wouldn't buy the watch.

If you actually make these mistakes in business or investing, and refuse to cut your losses because you don't want to feel like you "lost", then you're ultimately doomed to lose more.

The way to look at it is: would we still buy NDombele for what we could sell him for right now? If the answer is no, then we should sell. If the answer is yes, then we should keep him. Simple as that.

 

[The Legend of Tanguy]

Actually that would be succumbing to two destructive psychological fallacies: sunk cost fallacy and the endowment effect.

Sunk cost fallacy: continuing an endeavor because of previously invested resources when you wouldn't pursue that same endeavor had your own resources not been previously invested.

Endowment effect: when you would make a decision not to sell an object you own for a certain amount, but also wouldn't choose to buy the same object (if you didn't own it) for that amount. For instance, I wouldn't sell my watch for $1,000. But if I had $1,000 and no watch, I wouldn't buy the watch.

If you actually make these mistakes in business or investing, and refuse to cut your losses because you don't want to feel like you "lost", then you're ultimately doomed to lose more.

The way to look at it is: would we still buy NDombele for what we could sell him for right now? If the answer is no, then we should sell. If the answer is yes, then we should keep him. Simple as that.

I'm very familiar with both of those terms and in many cases they apply, but in this case I don't think they do, yet. It's not that black and white.

In this case, the investment we made did not pay off in year 1, but we've seen many flashes of what he may be able to be under the right circumstances. But if an investment still has significant promise, there's no need to give up on it after 1 year.

I don't think Levy is looking at it as "Because I invested 65m in Ndombele, I am going to ride it out until the end and refuse to sell to save some face." I think he sees it as, "We've got this extremely high-potential asset that we made a significant investment in, but for one reason or another, he did not perform to our expectations this year. What changes need to be made to allow this asset to flourish?"

That's where this summer comes in. We know there's a world-class player in there, but the club has not figured out how to unleash it yet. If we make the required changes this summer and Ndombele has a similar year next year with injuries and lack of playing time and contribution, I agree that it may be time to move on. But we could have done the same thing with Son after year one. He was poor, we could have used both psychological fallacies as guidance and cut ties. If we'd have missed out on what he became, we'd be severely kicking ourselves.

The negative repercussions of missing out on untapped potential due to impatience can be just as significant, if not more significant than staying the course with a player and/or investment. Take Salah and De Bruyne as examples with Jose at Chelsea. What facilitated their being able to be sold was the fact that Abrahamovic had no limits to what he was willing to spend, so if Jose wasn't sold on a player making an instant impact, he could just sell them and buy a shiny new 50m+ player. We don't have those luxuries at Spurs and because of that, I think we'll see a significant effort to acquire the pieces needed to get the best out of Tanguy. If that still doesn't work, then it's time to move on.

 

[thehipster]

Funnily enough I both agree and take value from the previous two opposing comments.

 

[ItsBoris]

Yeah I don't think we're really disagreeing - I was just pointing out that a big investment is not a justification to either stick or twist. The idea that we're going to act in a way that justifies or validates our investment is just not right.

However, if we do "know there's a world-class player in there" (which I'm not totally sold on myself and the people who see him every day in training will be far better placed to know whether that's true) then of course that would probably lead us to value him above what anyone else would be willing to pay.

The fallacy would be if we scoffed at the idea of paying, say, 50 million for him (in summer 2020 if he wasn't already our player), but also scoff at the idea of selling him for 50 million. Those two sentiments can easily exist simultaneously in the mind but are logically incompatible.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

A bit like when half the idiots on here convinced themselves lamela was a junkie

So what you’re tellin me he doesn’t do fat slugs of charlie pre match in the stadiums bogs? Well i never...

 

[KikoSpurs]

The op posted the interview video link on youtube. It's down in the comments. Unfortunately I don't know French so I can't say if it is fake or not.

 

[Montalbano]

The op posted the interview video link on youtube. It's down in the comments. Unfortunately I don't know French so I can't say if it is fake or not.

I looked at the comments and he says it comes from this interview.. Calling on you @LeParisien

 

[LeParisien]

Ok I’m listening but it’s long. Any more specific time reference ?

It’s from confinement before training started because he said confinement has been tough and the squad meet up on an app to train physically together at 11h but he misses work with the ball etc .

Will slowly update but time ref for controversy might help if we want it quicker

 

[LeParisien]

I’ll add something that will be invisible to most of you. In French he’s an absolute sweetheart. Humble, a kind of warm soft voice... he’s not a dickhead footballer. His persona is completely at odds with the primadonna or lazy, unprofessional slurs that have come his way.

Of course that could be wrong but it’s something

 

[DCSPUR64]

I have been listening to his interview, I am trying to read into see if he is happy, I am not so sure. How many times I hear content and Bonne Chance. I hope next season comes good for the lad at Spurs.

 

[LeParisien]

10 mins in

Interviewer: 19 appearances, 2 goals, 2 assists...is your experience so far what you expected ?

Tanguy: No...for sure I hoped for more. But then you’re at a new club in a new league in anew country and you try your best to adapt. After that I got an injury which didn’t help...but I’m trying my best to get back to full fitness and now we have le confinement...and were waiting for the restart.

Interviewer: I have a little question for you... how did you react when Jose mourinho knocked on your door and asked you to go running with him...i read that in the press... did you take think it was a joke? Tell me the story...

Tanguy: Nooo... that story was twisted... they twisted that story badly. I don’t want to say much more but that story was twisted in the press.

Interviewer: ok. Jose mourinho, your coach, is an extremely charismatic guy, a talented communicator... were you awestruck when he came or did you adapt very quickly?

Tanguy: For sure you adapt quickly. But then of course he’s a great coach with an impressive track record and we have to train hard.

Interviewer: whenever you came to Amiens with Lyon, we’d ask the Lyon coach how you’re doing and he always say « oui, super ». We still think of you. Tell me... there’s been interest in you from abroad... which city do you prefer, Paris or Barcelona? [SLIMY QUESTION]

Tanguy: I haven’t had contact with either club. As I said, at the moment we’re in confinement. But ... It’s not going too well but we’ll try to concentrate on what we have to do [seems he is referring to the team and not his own performance]. Of course Paris is my home but... at the moment there is no choice - I have to concentrate on the task at hand.

Interviewer: so you prefer to concentrate on the English league... trying to express yourself with the ball...

Tanguy: Yes of course, of course.




There’s probably more later on and I’ll update with anything Tottenham related. Nothing too controversial there !?