Player Watch: Tanguy Ndombele

cozzo

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Jan 2, 2005
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Any set of fans would be disappointed if they saw what we are getting from someone who is our record signing and earning as much as Kane. The cost per benefit ratio is way off with each of them. People can give the excuse of 'its his first season' etc. In that case, you dont deserve the massive wages if its going to take a year or more to become competent at your job.

That argument never sits right with me. If you demand the salary, you need to perform. In no other walk of life would you be given a year or more grace.
But we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. There are probably other factors that are affecting his performance
 

Gilzeanking

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Our fans are toxic and turn on our players and people wonder why we can’t attract certain players. Players talk.
Sorry mate . Can't have that . Our fans are 'toxic' ... Man U fans are sweet ? Arse fans never complain ? Chelsea fans never had a racist thought ?

Complete bullshit , you get prats putting out this garbage on here sometimes . So the players are saying to each other don't go to Spurs
their fans are the worst in the world .... ? Haha, well really ..
 

buckley

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The fans want success so badly that what they are seeing is pushing us further away from the promised land and our fans are like all fans frustrated and angry with the obvious faults from above IE. ENIC . Now I am not having a go at Levy / ENIC before anybody gets off there horse . It is just that even not the brightest (like myself ) can see that even in our awful form a target man would help a lot and this should and could have been addressed within the last three seasons . I tell you the fans are taking there frustration out the only way the can and that is vocally . And I read for toxic frustration .
 

scat1620

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Just one question. Who the f*** is Bob?
It's a reference to a moaning bloke that A&C knew and mentioned as a grump in one of his posts, and - inexplicably - some of SC have jumped on it and started repeating ad nauseum. No problem with the original post, but just like the 'Berbatov deer face' and 'Vertonghen B.e.r.y.l.' things in the past, it's one that has somehow gained traction on SC without being in the least bit funny as a running joke for the site.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

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It's a reference to a moaning bloke that A&C knew and mentioned as a grump in one of his posts, and - inexplicably - some of SC have jumped on it and started repeating ad nauseum. No problem with the original post, but just like the 'Berbatov deer face' and 'Vertonghen B.e.r.y.l.' things in the past, it's one that has somehow gained traction on SC without being in the least bit funny as a running joke for the site.
Fucking hell, you over think shit some times.
 

scat1620

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For info, Dibby's porn career, Rupstoh not getting his head around the Bassong suspension and E L Strict's Mystery Of The Champagne Hams are all scat-endorsed actually-funny SpursCommunity contributions and may be referenced freely without my opinion being lowered.
 

HedgieSpur

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Ye it's going to go down really well with the 6 or 7 played behind him doing all the shitty dog work defensively while he strolls around not even attempting to work or show for his team mates.

No chance hes going to be playing as a 10. I'd rather a half fit Lamela playing as a ten because at least he'll chase a defender down, make life difficult for the opposition.

We dont need a passenger who might only come alive once every 30 minutes when he gets the ball.
This response is the archetypal response from people in this country and explains why so many fans struggle with certain types of players. Not every player has to run round like a headless chicken showing "passion" just to make you feel good.

The fact that you. think a half fit Lamela would be more effect as a 10 than Ndombele characterises your preference for players who APPEAr to be working hard, even if the end product is poor (Lamela) rather than a player who might actually player the killer through balls, shoot from the edge of the penalty area (as opposed to trying to walk it into the net, take on 5 players, only ever use 1 foot) and bring our wing forwards into play.

We all have certain styles/types of players that we like and I suspect a number of our fans see him as a "luxury player". He shouldnt worry though...that moniker was often levelled at Hoddle too (snd for the avoidance of doubt, Im not saying Ndombele is the new Hoddle)
 

TheHoddleWaddle

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It's a reference to a moaning bloke that A&C knew and mentioned as a grump in one of his posts, and - inexplicably - some of SC have jumped on it and started repeating ad nauseum. No problem with the original post, but just like the 'Berbatov deer face' and 'Vertonghen B.e.r.y.l.' things in the past, it's one that has somehow gained traction on SC without being in the least bit funny as a running joke for the site.
Ah. I thought it was some sort of witty abbreviation, acronym or some such. How dull. Boring Old Banter that.
 

Spurs_Bear

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It's a reference to a moaning bloke that A&C knew and mentioned as a grump in one of his posts, and - inexplicably - some of SC have jumped on it and started repeating ad nauseum. No problem with the original post, but just like the 'Berbatov deer face' and 'Vertonghen B.e.r.y.l.' things in the past, it's one that has somehow gained traction on SC without being in the least bit funny as a running joke for the site.
Jesus H Christ.
 

teedee

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This response is the archetypal response from people in this country and explains why so many fans struggle with certain types of players. Not every player has to run round like a headless chicken showing "passion" just to make you feel good.

The fact that you. think a half fit Lamela would be more effect as a 10 than Ndombele characterises your preference for players who APPEAr to be working hard, even if the end product is poor (Lamela) rather than a player who might actually player the killer through balls, shoot from the edge of the penalty area (as opposed to trying to walk it into the net, take on 5 players, only ever use 1 foot) and bring our wing forwards into play.

We all have certain styles/types of players that we like and I suspect a number of our fans see him as a "luxury player". He shouldnt worry though...that moniker was often levelled at Hoddle too (snd for the avoidance of doubt, Im not saying Ndombele is the new Hoddle)
There is a difference between running around like a headless chicken and failing to make an effort.
 

HedgieSpur

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There is a difference between running around like a headless chicken and failing to make an effort.
Agreed. I don't think anybody who watched the video vs Wolves could say that he made any great effort to tackle. but my point is a more general one...he's the type of player that to a number of fans will always look like he's not putting in the effort, due to their own nuanced view of what "effort" means.
 

Ionman34

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Jun 1, 2011
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This response is the archetypal response from people in this country and explains why so many fans struggle with certain types of players. Not every player has to run round like a headless chicken showing "passion" just to make you feel good.

The fact that you. think a half fit Lamela would be more effect as a 10 than Ndombele characterises your preference for players who APPEAr to be working hard, even if the end product is poor (Lamela) rather than a player who might actually player the killer through balls, shoot from the edge of the penalty area (as opposed to trying to walk it into the net, take on 5 players, only ever use 1 foot) and bring our wing forwards into play.

We all have certain styles/types of players that we like and I suspect a number of our fans see him as a "luxury player". He shouldnt worry though...that moniker was often levelled at Hoddle too (snd for the avoidance of doubt, Im not saying Ndombele is the new Hoddle)
I think the bigger issue with TN is that he's doing very little "showing" for the ball, as the MNF analysis showed. He was hiding behind opposition players, so wasn't helping in any way to alleviate pressure on the defence by giving them an out.

Whether he plays as an 8 or a 10, the very least that you would expect from him is constant motion so that he is always finding space to make himself available.

In that respect, co.parison with Hoddle is way off the mark. Hoddle was always available, always looking for space to receive the ball. He was regarded as a luxury player because the English prerequisite for a midfielder, at that time, was a box to box workhorse like Bryan Robson or David Platt. Hoddle had work rate, just not that type of work rate.

At the moment, we are seeing very little work rate from Ndombele in order for him to be most effective at what he does best. It has nothing to do with applying an archetypal stigma to him, simply that he is not applying himself to be anywhere near as effective as he could and should be.
 

Japhet

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I think the bigger issue with TN is that he's doing very little "showing" for the ball, as the MNF analysis showed. He was hiding behind opposition players, so wasn't helping in any way to alleviate pressure on the defence by giving them an out.

Whether he plays as an 8 or a 10, the very least that you would expect from him is constant motion so that he is always finding space to make himself available.

In that respect, co.parison with Hoddle is way off the mark. Hoddle was always available, always looking for space to receive the ball. He was regarded as a luxury player because the English prerequisite for a midfielder, at that time, was a box to box workhorse like Bryan Robson or David Platt. Hoddle had work rate, just not that type of work rate.

At the moment, we are seeing very little work rate from Ndombele in order for him to be most effective at what he does best. It has nothing to do with applying an archetypal stigma to him, simply that he is not applying himself to be anywhere near as effective as he could and should be.

IMO the midfielders not showing for the ball has been an issue for quite a while. In Ndombele's case a lot of it looks down to laziness and in reality, Lo Celso is about the only one working hard to find angles and spaces. I'd also say that the way Mourinho sets us up invites teams to press us in deep areas where no midfielder really wants to be receiving many passes. This passive low block is a big, big problem for us since modern football (post peak Mourinho) has evolved into a much more front foot, aggressive strategy precisely to counter the type of football Mourinho was successful with years ago. Everybody else (pretty much) has moved on and we've gone backwards.
 

Amorea

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Mar 11, 2020
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So do I mean he falls over a lot?

No, of course not, (I say smiling) although he has seemed to recently!

No, what I refer to is the 'balance' he shows between the three most simplistic (and easiest to assess) performance parameters that SOME trainers and coaches in sport consider vital in the overall consideration of a sports-person's displays:

ENERGY – INFORMATION – EXPRESSION.

Getting high scores (say, out of a maximum 10 for each one) and holding these scores consistently over time at their highest number, can indicate the overall level of expertise and ability (or 'performance-value') upon which a performer can be assessed.

Like all other performance-factors this assessment is subjective and ONLY the player can in any way guarantee what their performance will be on any given day BUT – these three PF's (Performance Factors) CAN be a useful pointer to the overall potential of a sports-performer at the highest level and a measure of their impact in a match.

What we would be looking for is, as I said, the 'balance' of all three and each one as close to the max as would be reasonable to ask that specific performer.

Each factor holds TWO marks (out of ten); the first the 'historical' level of performance (what they have already shown consistently) and the second, the current level of performance over say the last 10 matches.

So, briefly, what does each 'factor' entail – and how does Ndombele – currently – measure up?

To help that assessment I have included the names of some well-known performers in football AND in tennis (as alternative examples).

ENERGY: The overall power, fitness, strength, physical-commitment and intensity quotient of the individual whilst performing.

Examples: Rafael Nadal (tennis). Scores: 10 / 10. Singularly THE most intense sports-performer out there with the highest levels of fitness, strength, power and commitment to excellence every moment (point) of the match.

Jordan Henderson (Liverpool) 10 / 10

Harry Winks 8 / 8

Fred (Man U) 8 / 9

INFORMATION: The overall understanding the performer has about strategy, tactics, how and when and where to move the ball in any moment and his consistent awareness of the state or situation of the match (and his opponents) at any given time.

Roger Federer (tennis): 10 / 10.

Kevin De-Bruyne (Man C) 10 / 10 (Pirlo of Italy when he was playing – 10 / 10)

Lo Celso 8 / 9

Kante (Chelsea) 8 / 8

Pele (past great 10 / 10

EXPRESSION: This is arguably THE most important stat right here as it refers to the performer's exceptional technical skills and 'ability' / 'talent' and instinctive creativity especially in those critical fast-action moments of any match when decision-making is most important.

It ALSO equates with the deep-core persona or belief that the player holds about WHO they are in the match. If they are unsure of how good they are or what they can really do in a performance then they will NOT access their whole range of talents – ever!

AND – if either of the other two parameters are poor then this final parameter will NOT make any difference at all unless the matches are against very inferior opposition!

Roger Federer (tennis) 10 / 10 Fabio Fognini (tennis – Italy) 9 / 9

Lionel Messi (Barcelona) 10 / 10 Christiano Ronaldo (R. Madrid) 9 / 9

Dele Alli 8 / 7

Mohammed Salah (Liverpool) 9 / 8

Maradona (past great) 10 / 10

So – IF we choose to assess players by these parameters, where does that place Ndombele – at this time?

My assessment: ENERGY: 6 / 5 INFORMATION: 7 / 6 EXPRESSION: 10 / 7

Compared to the most balanced performance-factors in Spurs team held by Harry Kane, Ndombele has a way to go to become a 'balanced' player for our team.

Kane scores: ENERGY: 9 / 8 INFORMATION: 9 / 9 EXPRESSION: 9 / 9

The players with the most balanced set of criteria almost always become captains in the better teams, assuming, of course, that they score highly on all of them.

Injuries, of course, play a heavy part in the consistency of scoring but the very best competitors always recover faster than those with lesser commitment.

And those with the greatest commitment almost always maximise their potential – and become 'WINNERS'!

Potentially, Ndombele COULD become one of the greatest players in world-football but he will HAVE to attend to his CONSISTENT energy-output and his awareness of the moment-by-moment development of the match. If he does, then his expression of who he really is as a great player, will be totally confirmed.

But THAT scenario can come from ONLY one guy . . . TanGUY himself!
 
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